HawkeyeShane
Well-Known Member
When exactly did he have no place in the lineup? I must be missing something since he was part of 2009's RB tandem...
Why can't Iowa recruit athletes?
- Thread starter cabse5
- Start date
When exactly did he have no place in the lineup? I must be missing something since he was part of 2009's RB tandem...
whammer33024
Well-Known Member
wegher was not kicked off the team. wegher chose to take this season off and, ultimately, decided to leave the university.
so if wegher is your main concern, we DID recruit him and we did LAND him. so your entire thread is pointless
so if wegher is your main concern, we DID recruit him and we did LAND him. so your entire thread is pointless
theboat
Well-Known Member
I think you are on to something.
We should have 2 lock down corners, 3 stud receivers that can't be covered, a RB or 2 that can break an 80 yarder in a split second, a QB with the athletic ability of Cam Newton and the arm of Luck, an offensive line that overpowers everyone, and LB's and safeties that never miss a tackle.
Who knew it could be this simple?
ColumbusHawk
Well-Known Member
In each of the last two seasons Iowa was considered to have the best cover corner in the Big Ten in Spivey & Prater.
What in the h-e-double hockey sticks are you trying to communicate.
What in the h-e-double hockey sticks are you trying to communicate.
coralville
Well-Known Member
I thought you might be talking about basketball--and with that I agree. Seems like Iowa STate has had much better luck with this than we have over the last decade. Football--don't see it there
I think you are on to something.
We should have 2 lock down corners, 3 stud receivers that can't be covered, a RB or 2 that can break an 80 yarder in a split second, a QB with the athletic ability of Cam Newton and the arm of Luck, an offensive line that overpowers everyone, and LB's and safeties that never miss a tackle.
Who knew it could be this simple?
LOL!
briankaldenberg
Well-Known Member
Iowa was lucky enough to recruit an athlete like Wegher??? We've recruited so many players better than Wegher it isn't even funny.
So lucky... that they started a second year grey shirt at RB all of 2009 instead of Wegher? My gosh, they sure were playing with fire not even starting the athlete they were so lucky to have....
If Wegher was such an outstanding athlete that Iowa was so "lucky" to have then Wegher would have been in the lineup as a starter and would have gotten 80% of the carries instead of less than 50%.
If Iowa was so "lucky" to have gotten Wegher he'd still be here because Iowa would have crowned him the starter during Spring ball 2010 if they felt like they were "lucky" to have such an athlete. Instead he wasn't even in the top 2 beginning Summer camp.
austinhawk
Well-Known Member
Is there a wonder why we can't recruit??
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
To play the devil's advocate a little bit ...
While I'd agree with the majority of posters here in asserting that there isn't as much problem recruiting "athletes" ... the bigger issue is also recruiting "athletes" who also enter the program with an adequately refined "skill set."
The point here being the following:
1. Iowa has traditionally had trouble recruiting "true" WRs. The problem here, however, arguably has more to deal with the fact that it is GENERALLY hard for the Big 10 to recruit WRs to the harsher midwestern climate. Thus, the offshoot here is that the problem isn't exactly Iowa's alone here.
2. Iowa has traditionally had trouble recruiting "true" LBs who already come with great LB-instincts ... but who also have elite athleticism. There is a reason why Iowa has been forced to recruit safety-types and/or QBs and let them grow/develop into LBs. Quite frankly, this one has been more than a bit of a mystery, especially given Iowa's track record of developing elite LBs. Also, to cut folks off at the pass ... I recognize that Iowa has had some better luck recruiting more highly touted LBs in recent years (Quinton Alston being a more recent example) ... however, it is still rather surprising that Iowa doesn't have even better luck.
3. Iowa has traditionally had some difficulty recruiting DBs who had elite athleticism and a REFINED skill set. It should be noted here that, in general, it can be pretty difficult to project DBs ... there is A LOT of hit and miss there. Obviously, Iowa has had great luck with Godfrey, Fletcher, and Spievey ... however, NONE of them entered the program with a refined skill set. In fact, ALL of them were recognized as being high-ceiling athletes ... but EACH of them also required A TON of development. Heck, by Amari's own admission, he entered the program without much knowledge at all about playing CB ... thus, he had to put in a lot of work at refining his technique to become as talented of a college CB as he became for us.
4. Quite frankly Iowa IS A LOT faster than anybody gives us credit for. However, where the program gets hit particularly hard is where it comes to having a combo of SPEED and TALENT in our depth. In the end, I think that geography likely plays the biggest role there. While I think that "SEC speed" gets overhyped ... I do believe that the warmer geography and the ability to have year-round training for BOTH football and track helps the "speed" down there. Furthermore, the milder weather also doesn't discriminate socio-economically down there. If you want to train for track and football year-round in the midwest ... it usually comes with a price-tag ... the same is not true where the the weather is milder.
While I'd agree with the majority of posters here in asserting that there isn't as much problem recruiting "athletes" ... the bigger issue is also recruiting "athletes" who also enter the program with an adequately refined "skill set."
The point here being the following:
1. Iowa has traditionally had trouble recruiting "true" WRs. The problem here, however, arguably has more to deal with the fact that it is GENERALLY hard for the Big 10 to recruit WRs to the harsher midwestern climate. Thus, the offshoot here is that the problem isn't exactly Iowa's alone here.
2. Iowa has traditionally had trouble recruiting "true" LBs who already come with great LB-instincts ... but who also have elite athleticism. There is a reason why Iowa has been forced to recruit safety-types and/or QBs and let them grow/develop into LBs. Quite frankly, this one has been more than a bit of a mystery, especially given Iowa's track record of developing elite LBs. Also, to cut folks off at the pass ... I recognize that Iowa has had some better luck recruiting more highly touted LBs in recent years (Quinton Alston being a more recent example) ... however, it is still rather surprising that Iowa doesn't have even better luck.
3. Iowa has traditionally had some difficulty recruiting DBs who had elite athleticism and a REFINED skill set. It should be noted here that, in general, it can be pretty difficult to project DBs ... there is A LOT of hit and miss there. Obviously, Iowa has had great luck with Godfrey, Fletcher, and Spievey ... however, NONE of them entered the program with a refined skill set. In fact, ALL of them were recognized as being high-ceiling athletes ... but EACH of them also required A TON of development. Heck, by Amari's own admission, he entered the program without much knowledge at all about playing CB ... thus, he had to put in a lot of work at refining his technique to become as talented of a college CB as he became for us.
4. Quite frankly Iowa IS A LOT faster than anybody gives us credit for. However, where the program gets hit particularly hard is where it comes to having a combo of SPEED and TALENT in our depth. In the end, I think that geography likely plays the biggest role there. While I think that "SEC speed" gets overhyped ... I do believe that the warmer geography and the ability to have year-round training for BOTH football and track helps the "speed" down there. Furthermore, the milder weather also doesn't discriminate socio-economically down there. If you want to train for track and football year-round in the midwest ... it usually comes with a price-tag ... the same is not true where the the weather is milder.
My guess is the the OP is wondering why Iowa can't get the type of athletes that would not only start anywhere in the country but also be a star for that team.
OP, are you thinking guys like Vick, D Jackson, Peterson, McFadden, A Johnson, Winslow Jr, C Johnson, P Willis, Reed, Revis type of athletes? Break the mold type players?
Iowa has landed a lot of talented players over the years but have not had a lot of elite college players, not many teams do. So I agree with you if that is the point you are trying to make.
However, it isn't easy to land athletes like that unless your an elite FB program, Iowa simply isn't at that level. Even then its very difficult.
With the exception of USC during the Carrol years, I don't remember a team being able to go out and basically pick who would be playing for them.
OP, are you thinking guys like Vick, D Jackson, Peterson, McFadden, A Johnson, Winslow Jr, C Johnson, P Willis, Reed, Revis type of athletes? Break the mold type players?
Iowa has landed a lot of talented players over the years but have not had a lot of elite college players, not many teams do. So I agree with you if that is the point you are trying to make.
However, it isn't easy to land athletes like that unless your an elite FB program, Iowa simply isn't at that level. Even then its very difficult.
With the exception of USC during the Carrol years, I don't remember a team being able to go out and basically pick who would be playing for them.
cabse5
Banned
I guess I've been pulverized by everyone's logic....
(1) Many, including myself, whine about Iowa's ineffectiveness in the 2 minute drill.
Many are saying it's because of KOK's playcalling - yeah, that's true to some extent. Even if we got Norm Chow to call the offense, his 2 minute drill would still be ineffective without some athletes with speed, with hands, with the ability to make plays, with the ability to get open. Not to mention a QB with a strong arm who can survey the field.
BTW, could Chow recruit athletes at Iowa? I mean, many say it can't be done at Iowa.
You might say it's Chow, and athletes will come to Iowa because of his reputation. Ah, hah. Precisely my point. IMO, the reason why athletes don't come to Iowa is because of the painfully conservative offenses and defenses and their reputations.
Now, we had that kind of athlete with Wegher - an athlete who could make a difference in the 2 minute drill. Maybe there was nothing Ferentz could do to keep him at Iowa. I really wonder about this.
There's a lot of BS out there to justify Iowa's inability to recruit. If you think about it, that's really convenient for any coach.
The player isn't a Big Ten player. Huh? What kind of player is a tOSU player - an international player? The cold weather doesn't briing the good WR. Huh? Isn't Boise, Idaho cold? The coaches at Iowa have it good because the fan base rationalizes their inability to recruit... Yet the fan base demands a BCS team.
Does anyone want an Iowa defense to stop a team that uses a passing spread offense? IMO, the defense is going to need to use some man to man coverages.
Of the list of Iowa athletes that some have provided to justify Iowa's (Ferentz's) abliity to recruit athletes, only one name stand out: Dallas Clark. Unfortunately, Shonn Greene is too slow.
I've rambled enough.
(1) Many, including myself, whine about Iowa's ineffectiveness in the 2 minute drill.
Many are saying it's because of KOK's playcalling - yeah, that's true to some extent. Even if we got Norm Chow to call the offense, his 2 minute drill would still be ineffective without some athletes with speed, with hands, with the ability to make plays, with the ability to get open. Not to mention a QB with a strong arm who can survey the field.
BTW, could Chow recruit athletes at Iowa? I mean, many say it can't be done at Iowa.
You might say it's Chow, and athletes will come to Iowa because of his reputation. Ah, hah. Precisely my point. IMO, the reason why athletes don't come to Iowa is because of the painfully conservative offenses and defenses and their reputations.
Now, we had that kind of athlete with Wegher - an athlete who could make a difference in the 2 minute drill. Maybe there was nothing Ferentz could do to keep him at Iowa. I really wonder about this.
There's a lot of BS out there to justify Iowa's inability to recruit. If you think about it, that's really convenient for any coach.
The player isn't a Big Ten player. Huh? What kind of player is a tOSU player - an international player? The cold weather doesn't briing the good WR. Huh? Isn't Boise, Idaho cold? The coaches at Iowa have it good because the fan base rationalizes their inability to recruit... Yet the fan base demands a BCS team.
Does anyone want an Iowa defense to stop a team that uses a passing spread offense? IMO, the defense is going to need to use some man to man coverages.
Of the list of Iowa athletes that some have provided to justify Iowa's (Ferentz's) abliity to recruit athletes, only one name stand out: Dallas Clark. Unfortunately, Shonn Greene is too slow.
I've rambled enough.
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Shonn Greene too slow? You rationalize speed as being so important. Most players even the fastest don't have the type of speed you think they do. Wegher in a 40 yd dash would beat Shonn Greene (I will agree to that anyone will). But you think speed is the end all be all. Some of it is escape-ability, speed with pads on, ability to get tough yards. Shonn Greene averages over 4 yds per carry in the pros and Wegher averaged 4 yds per carry against college players. With pads on and making players miss or running over them or whatever anyone that says Wegher is above Greene is using the same stuff DJK was. The 2 minute drill comes with a QB able to run it and receivers capable of catching tough passes. Ricky Stanzi was the problem with the 2 min drill. A QB like Drew Tate can tear teams up in a 2 minute drill because of the escape-ability and gunslinger mentality. Each team determines how they will defend things and Iowa goes with a simple approach that relies on their "athletes" being smart enough to read a QB and the man they are guarding in their zone and make a break. Last I checked that defense does pretty well.
A little added bonus by your theory please go tell Jerry Rice he wasn't an athlete because he didn't run a sub 4.5 forty yard dash. Yet pretty sure he was a solid 2 minute drill WR and for that matter the best WR ever.
A little added bonus by your theory please go tell Jerry Rice he wasn't an athlete because he didn't run a sub 4.5 forty yard dash. Yet pretty sure he was a solid 2 minute drill WR and for that matter the best WR ever.
ColumbusHawk
Well-Known Member
One problem Iowa does have is that the state does not produce many athletes.
According to Scout.com, Iowa only has four 3* prospects this year. In contrast, Ohio has eighty-one 3* prospects or better.
Two of the top five prospects in Ohio are going to Alabama, yet, Ohio State is running away from the rest of the Big Ten in recruiting. All the recruiting services have OSU in the top five nationally.
Coach Ferentz has done a very good job of going into Ohio & getting players like Stanzi & Hyde that OSU didn't want. Ohio State does not have enough scholarships to give every Division I prospect a scholarship.
In Iowa, if Iowa doesn't want an in-state prospect, nobody wants the kid. Look at the position of quarterback. Since Fry came to Iowa, all of the Iowa's first team all Big Ten quarterbacks have come from outside the state. Long & Hartlieb (Illinois), Rodgers (Massachusetts), Banks (Florida) & Tate (Texas).
So stop bitchin' about athletes. Iowa does not have the talent base of even Illinois.
According to Scout.com, Iowa only has four 3* prospects this year. In contrast, Ohio has eighty-one 3* prospects or better.
Two of the top five prospects in Ohio are going to Alabama, yet, Ohio State is running away from the rest of the Big Ten in recruiting. All the recruiting services have OSU in the top five nationally.
Coach Ferentz has done a very good job of going into Ohio & getting players like Stanzi & Hyde that OSU didn't want. Ohio State does not have enough scholarships to give every Division I prospect a scholarship.
In Iowa, if Iowa doesn't want an in-state prospect, nobody wants the kid. Look at the position of quarterback. Since Fry came to Iowa, all of the Iowa's first team all Big Ten quarterbacks have come from outside the state. Long & Hartlieb (Illinois), Rodgers (Massachusetts), Banks (Florida) & Tate (Texas).
So stop bitchin' about athletes. Iowa does not have the talent base of even Illinois.
CraigTNelson
Well-Known Member
Iowa currently has 31 players in the NFL, compared to Texas who has 43.
Iowa's problem is lack of depth of athletes per year, not a lack of athletes in starting roles.
Iowa does need more NFL caliber WRs, RBs and QBs. Seems like we are getting there though.
Iowa's problem is lack of depth of athletes per year, not a lack of athletes in starting roles.
Iowa does need more NFL caliber WRs, RBs and QBs. Seems like we are getting there though.
HawkFrenzy
Active Member
This!! It really goes by definition. Someone once said that a "speed" receiver was someone fast but could not catch the ball, a possession receiver could catch it but not very fast. A DB is a WR who could not run good routes. Seems to me that an athlete is someone with great physical ability but no difinitive position. Most I have seen evolve in to a WR or DB but do not come with the instincts necessary to start there. This is why there are a lot of position changes. Some of Iowa's best players were recruited in a different position they play now (see Gallery or Clark, both of whom were walk ons). Those to me are athletes.
briankaldenberg
Well-Known Member
cabse5
Banned
Just when it seems I can move on, someone else misinterprets something I've posted on this thread...
(1) Offhand, I can think of 2 receivers Iowa recruited in the Ferentz era that would have been productive in the 2 minute drill. Neither were athletes but had the ability to run routes, get open, and catch the ball in traffic: Ed Hinkel and D. Douglas. I can't think of any other non-athlete WRs. Ferentz's Iowa has had few athletic WRs - none for quite a while. To McNutt's credit, he can sometimes jump to make a play.
(2) Someone's list of Iowa's athletes that, IMO, weren't athletes (2 minute drill aside): any DB that made it to the NFL because they weren't athletes at Iowa. IMO, this is why most left early for the NFL: they realized they weren't being taught any techniques except zone.
No, Shonn Greene is not an athlete and wouldn't be effective in the 2 minute drill. He's too slow and he apparently couldn't catch at Iowa.
I'll say this again: Iowa is a top 25 football program. For Iowa to get to a consistantly higher ranking, Iowa needs to recruit some athletes and use their athletic ability.
(1) Offhand, I can think of 2 receivers Iowa recruited in the Ferentz era that would have been productive in the 2 minute drill. Neither were athletes but had the ability to run routes, get open, and catch the ball in traffic: Ed Hinkel and D. Douglas. I can't think of any other non-athlete WRs. Ferentz's Iowa has had few athletic WRs - none for quite a while. To McNutt's credit, he can sometimes jump to make a play.
(2) Someone's list of Iowa's athletes that, IMO, weren't athletes (2 minute drill aside): any DB that made it to the NFL because they weren't athletes at Iowa. IMO, this is why most left early for the NFL: they realized they weren't being taught any techniques except zone.
No, Shonn Greene is not an athlete and wouldn't be effective in the 2 minute drill. He's too slow and he apparently couldn't catch at Iowa.
I'll say this again: Iowa is a top 25 football program. For Iowa to get to a consistantly higher ranking, Iowa needs to recruit some athletes and use their athletic ability.
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whammer33024
Well-Known Member
you do realize that iowa's offensive and defensive schemes are not quick strike schemes, right? our offense isn't designed to make 80 yard touchdowns with speedy receivers. our scheme is a get down to business smashmouth approach. we're going to use a lot of clock and wear you down. basically spit on you as we pound the ball down your throat.
i would say we recruit many high quality athletes that fit our system perfectly. stop talking about the 2 minute drill. you got your high speed receiver in chaney, and i remember him dropping a couple passes in the 2 minute drills.
to make you happy, we should recruit 11 separate offensive players just for the 2 minute drill. sound good?
i would say we recruit many high quality athletes that fit our system perfectly. stop talking about the 2 minute drill. you got your high speed receiver in chaney, and i remember him dropping a couple passes in the 2 minute drills.
to make you happy, we should recruit 11 separate offensive players just for the 2 minute drill. sound good?
