Where KF decisions will really hurt this team

[LASBUR]

With 3 games left sitting at 6-3 we should play whoever gives us the best chance to win the game in front of us. I think. We could still get a decent Bowl game and that is good for the over all program

 

[MiniMoeHawk]

Too bad they didn't give CJ a chance last year. The staff went into this year with blinders on figuring they had their QB1 lined up before the season.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Dolph sez that Jake is an outstanding quarterback out of St. Thomas Aquinas High School.

I am not sure who I hate to listen to more Dolph or Beth Mowins?

Is Dolph still claiming that Willies will be back any week now and Mowins that Fry is calling another time out 16 years after his retirement?

 

[PCHawk]

It's simply because Kirk is stubborn and loyal to a fault. He loves Jake. He loves his attitude, his personality, and his work ethic. He doesn't want to give up on the kid. His loyalty to him clearly inhibits his ability to see things clearly, and it's becoming painful to watch. Jake played downright awful in the Minnesota game. I was ****** that CJ didn't get in earlier. There was absolutely no reason not to give CJ a chance earlier on in that game. It was clear that Jake was struggling.

There is a night and day difference between what you just said and saying that Kirk purposely plays the worse player. I don't understand how so many people on here can confuse the 2. Kirk isn't playing Jake even though he thinks CJ is better. He thinks Jake is better because he is blinded by his love of him.

 

[PCHawk]

I hope I am wrong, but I really think that this stretch run is going to be really hurt by KF decision to stick with JR as the QB of this team. If KF would have made the switch to CJ after the Purdue game, he would have played in 5 1/2 games in a row (1/2 Pitt game, Purdue, Indy, Maryland, jNW, and Minny). I think that is about the time where his top end talent would start outproducing JR's game experience advantage. Nothing can replace actual game time, and even if we laid an egg at Maryland and got blown out at Minny with CJ at the helm, he would still have that game experience, and his arm might well have made the difference in the Maryland game. Lets just say we still lose both of those, and still beat Indy and jNW. We still have the same record, but now we have a weapon at QB who can be a game changer these last 3 games.

As I said I hope I'm wrong, but listening to the Miller and Deace podcast I think about how good OSU is now with JT at the QB spot, and the same with Cook at MSU for that matter. Both players were put in by the coach, as they had more top end talent than the other guy, and once they both had about 5 games of experience (or even less in JT's case) they really hit their strides.

I guess we will see if it is an opportunity lost in about 2 1/2 weeks.

The same could be said about '08. Kirk eventually did the right thing and we got the '09 run because of it. But people never talk about what '08 could have been if he made the change when he should have. Do we still lose to Pitt if Stanzi has 3 games under his belt? Do we still lose to Northwestern by 5 and MSU by 3 if he had been starting all season? Illinios by 3? Who knows what it cost us that year starting with JC.

 

[PCHawk]

Does Banks still lose to ISU if he had more experience under his belt? Most coaches would have sent him in ready or not.

 

[PCHawk]

Also just because **** snowballed during the Minnesota game doesn't mean it had to go that way. If CJ comes in and scores a couple times in the first half, mindsets can change dramatically for the second half.

Does the defense have a little more pep in their step if it's a 4 point game? Does our offense sustain drives to keep their offense from getting into such a rhythm? Does the game become a shootout? Who knows.

If Northwestern would have blocked our punt instead of us blocking theirs, it could have been a completely different game. Sometimes it only takes 1 play to change momentum.

 

[deanvogs]

Also just because **** snowballed during the Minnesota game doesn't mean it had to go that way. If CJ comes in and scores a couple times in the first half, mindsets can change dramatically for the second half.

Does the defense have a little more pep in their step if it's a 4 point game? Does our offense sustain drives to keep their offense from getting into such a rhythm? Does the game become a shootout? Who knows.

If Northwestern would have blocked our punt instead of us blocking theirs, it could have been a completely different game. Sometimes it only takes 1 play to change momentum.

I think it is a little far fetched to think that CJ changes the Minny outcome. It would take 5 momentum changing plays to sway a game by 40 points.

 

[homes]

I think Dean made some valid points when he started this thread; as a poster, he is typically reasonable and candid. I do not know if switching QB's earlier in the year would have helped. Why? Because I think we have two very average QB's each of whom has some significant weaknesses. Now, these are two very fine young men who have been team players, hard workers, good students, so I am NOT bashing them. If you look at the other QB's in the league, or even in the West Division, I just don't think we measure up.

I'm not making Beathard out to be Andrew Luck, but what are his "significant weaknesses"? He's not as accurate? He takes too many chances, i.e., he won't take the safe play but always goes for the big play? He runs too much? He doesn't know the plays? He's not good in practice? Not challenging you, but I'd like to read what you think they are. I think I know Rudock's limitations, they're baked into him now. Other than inexperience, what dearth does Beathard have that keeps him off the field?

 

[deanvogs]

There is a night and day difference between what you just said and saying that Kirk purposely plays the worse player. I don't understand how so many people on here can confuse the 2. Kirk isn't playing Jake even though he thinks CJ is better. He thinks Jake is better because he is blinded by his love of him.

This is spot on. KF plays JR cause he thinks that in the game in front of him, he is the better ball protector. He values that far more than any poster on here does. Win the TO battle and typically you win the game. KF has coached that way for 16 years now, that ain't a changing.

 

[deanvogs]

I'm not making Beathard out to be Andrew Luck, but what are his "significant weaknesses"? He's not as accurate? He takes too many chances, i.e., he won't take the safe play but always goes for the big play? He runs too much? He doesn't know the plays? He's not good in practice? Not challenging you, but I'd like to read what you think they are. I think I know Rudock's limitations, they're baked into him now. Other than inexperience, what dearth does Beathard have that keeps him off the field?

CJ isn't as accurate as JR, and JR gets the team into the correct plays more often than CJ on the audibles. Those are the only 2 things I think he does better than CJ, or at least things you can see outside of practice.

 

[hawkphan00]

Not sure what you smoking but if you confuse Jake and the words accurate you got me fooled. The pick on Saturday was no less than 6 yards behind MM after the Ole' triple pump/triple shuffle. And to say he get's them into better plays is nuts. He audible's to the strong side every time with Usain Wiesman. Jake just flat out is not good, and I can't sugar coat it anymore.

 

[NCHawker]

CJ isn't as accurate as JR, and JR gets the team into the correct plays more often than CJ on the audibles. Those are the only 2 things I think he does better than CJ, or at least things you can see outside of practice.

You just reminded me about "getting into the correct plays"... there just are't that many correct plays for this squad.

 

[ohhawk]

Rushing offense - bottom half of the BIG YTD (along with IL, NW, RU, PSU, MD, MI)

Rushing defense - bottom half of the BIG YTD (along with NW, IN, PU, RU, MD, IL)

.........and this is against the weakest part of the schedule. Note the correlation between teams listed vs. their record in the BIG YTD.
_________________________________________________________

I'd like to see Beathard get more of a shot to show what he can or can't do in game situations but the QB position is not where my focus would be in getting things turned around. Our issues thus far would appear to be much broader. The two above stats are especially critical to success in the Ferentz approach to the game.

When you have very few explosive players on offense (or should I say on the field in our case), your opponent stops your run game, and pass protection is marginal at times then you have a QB with little weaponry regardless of who it is. We've had all three working against us at times this year.

 

[hwk23]

CJ isn't as accurate as JR, and JR gets the team into the correct plays more often than CJ on the audibles. Those are the only 2 things I think he does better than CJ, or at least things you can see outside of practice.

Not on passes over ten yards. CJ attempts many more passes over 10 yards and completes them at a slightly higher percentage. JR is more accurate on short passes. He should have the better timing after starting 20+ games and practicing with the 1st team. 35% of CJ's passes and 27% of JR's passes are over 10 yards. That's a pretty good indication of ability.

 

[ibahawkeye]

I'm just not convinced that CJ is that good.

I don't think he's as dynamic runner as others believe. He's not been a consistent passer.

I started out in support of Jake. After ISU, I was all for CJ. After NW, I was back on Jake.

Now I'm back to thinking that neither are good QBs.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Three weeks ago we heard how CJ was going to be used & get some drives in games. Meaningful drives we were led to believe. If they couldn't find a way to get him in the game against Minny for some meaningful playing time, than we pretty much know where KF's head is. It was baffling why CJ wasn't put in earlier, at least to give him more game experience. That tells me KF is not serious about him getting in there.

 

[Camhawk]

KF has picked his horse and will ride it until it drops dead (see JVB and JC).

 

[hawkinn3]

I'm just not convinced that CJ is that good.

I don't think he's as dynamic runner as others believe. He's not been a consistent passer.

I started out in support of Jake. After ISU, I was all for CJ. After NW, I was back on Jake.

Now I'm back to thinking that neither are good QBs.

I tend to agree, CJ has a bigger arm but that's about it. I don't think either guy is very good but CJ still allows us to do more and has the cajones to take a shot. Ill take that any day.

 

[PCHawk]

I think it is a little far fetched to think that CJ changes the Minny outcome. It would take 5 momentum changing plays to sway a game by 40 points.

That all depends on when the momentum play takes place. The receiver was wide open on Jake's int. If CJ hits him in stride and we get 6, who knows what happens from there.

If you're of the opinion that Minnesota is just that much better than us then there is no changing your mind. But my opinion is that they got the ball rolling early and we caved under the pressure. Just like we did to Northwestern last week. We needed one momentum play early to prevent them from getting going. That's not to say that we win for sure if we make that 1 play obviously.