Where it all went wrong - Dochterman Article - read this

I agree. I would say that was his best article in awhile, better than the whole series he just did that I don't feel added anything new to what was already known. This gives things a different spin and something to think about.
 
Interesting read, I remember that Iowa was handling Minnesota pretty well up that point, and the Minnesota went inside a lot after Tate got hurt.
 
I don't remember thinking at the time that Iowa was a good team but if you look at those numbers they really were playing well for a coach in his second year. The combo of losing Tate and Tucker did cripple that team. However it does seem that Lick is the kind of guy that gets really down and focuses on the negative when things don't go his way. Sometimes players (especially young players) need a coach to pick them up during the bad times. Lick is definitely not the kind of guy to do that. That may have created problems with some of the players that led to transfers.
 
storminspank said:
I seriously forgot that we destroyed UNI, an NCAA team, last year.
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UNI was no where near an NCAA tournament team before the Valley regular season started last year. Something clicked during MVC play and they became a much better team.
 
Tate played great post defense in a number of games the last two years. He was great in the home win against MSU, for example.

Clearly, Spanky likes the article primarily because he loves to reminisce about the six decent games Tucker played for us so long ago. ;)

Can't argue with the idea that had Cy not been injured we might have made the NIT, and that might've made fans a little more patient. But the fact is that it would not have affected this year's team in any way--unless people want to claim we wouldn't have lost the transfers, and then we might as well just drop acid and dream.

The question that piece of history about Cy's injury raises is why we didn't have a better backup available than a 6'6 guy who, God love him, is not a Big Ten quality post player on either end of the court even when fully healthy. That's a Lick issue no matter how you cut it.
 
IAJay said:
UNI was no where near an NCAA tournament team before the Valley regular season started last year. Something clicked during MVC play and they became a much better team.
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Oh, I agree, but we still beat them by almost 20 points. They weren't an awful team by any means when they came into Carver for that game.
 
It's certainly a nice read as opposed to all the appocolyptic stuff circulating. It makes you realize how small the margin is for teams with little depth. If one unexpecting thing happens it can ruin entire seasons.

I know if's and but's were cany and nuts..... but....

If Cole and Tate would have avoided injury, if the Kelly thing handn't happened, and it Tucker would had have made reasonable decisions I wonder how different this program would look right now.
 
Last year, our backcourt looked like this:
Peterson, Davis, Kelly, Bawinkel, and Tucker.

This year, our backcourt looked like this:
Payne, Lickliter, Bawinkel.

Not what I expected towards the end of last year.
 
IAJay said:
UNI was no where near an NCAA tournament team before the Valley regular season started last year. Something clicked during MVC play and they became a much better team.
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Correct. ISU beat UNI at UNI and ISU was crappy.
 
I also think another issue was the demise of Jermain Davis. In the ISU and UNI games he was the difference-maker. His drives to the hoop in both games gave our offense a different dimension. Then as Doc says, Lick got into his head in the Michigan game,and I do not think he played much the rest of the way,altho he was hurt for some of that stretch. This goes back to what Doc said in his series...Lick nit-picks players,grinding them down...and recruits also. I think that does not wear well over a losing season...and I think drove Jeff Peterson and Tony Freeman out of town.
Palmer needs to be given credit for almost beating Wisky by himself with his 22pt,9rb performance in Tate's absence. Cy could not have done better than that.
No doubt Cy's injury was big,and when he returned we did manage to beat PSU with both Cole and him on the floor doing a high-low post type of offense. I will never forget lick being asked if we would see that again,and he said no, it was simply a matchup deal for one game...again, that inflexibilty rears its head.

The SA era was rife with these kind of ''if only'' scenarios...it is the legacy of Iowa bb really...we always have had injuries,suspensions,or dropouts over the years. Ray Thompson,Jeff Walker,Sondy,Recker,Ronnie,Chris Street,Tylers Dad,Jakes mom,Sommerville,Scott,Perry,Skinner,Tucker,Davis,Freeman,Range,PP,ect...ect...ect..

As the line goes...''we coulda been a contender!!''

Lick has had some bad luck,but that comes with the territory known was Iowa bb.
 
woodyk1 said:
Yes, I remember how Tate did defensively against Brackins (2-12 FG, 6 points) in Iowa City.
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Yeah, I made a video of it back in the day. :)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXhQuW6Ll94"]YouTube- IOWA - IOWA STATE 2008 - ISU BLOOPERS[/ame]
 
That is what happens without depth...part of bb.

But you are right, "we coulda been a contenda!" And now, courtesy of a fellow poster, we are this against Big 10 competetion--

IU- 3-3
NW- 4-2
PSU- 3-2
Mich-2-4
OSU- 1-5
MSU- 1-5
Wis- 1-4
PU- 0-6
Minn-0-6
Ill- 0-4
 
FreddyBrown said:
But the fact is that it would not have affected this year's team in any way--unless people want to claim we wouldn't have lost the transfers, and then we might as well just drop acid and dream.
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I wish I had done this before the season started and could say the entire season was just one long, bad trip. Unfortunately I was completely sober for the season...
 
JHHawk said:
I also think another issue was the demise of Jermain Davis. In the ISU and UNI games he was the difference-maker. His drives to the hoop in both games gave our offense a different dimension. Then as Doc says, Lick got into his head in the Michigan game,and I do not think he played much the rest of the way,altho he was hurt for some of that stretch. This goes back to what Doc said in his series...Lick nit-picks players,grinding them down...and recruits also. I think that does not wear well over a losing season...and I think drove Jeff Peterson and Tony Freeman out of town.
Palmer needs to be given credit for almost beating Wisky by himself with his 22pt,9rb performance in Tate's absence. Cy could not have done better than that.
No doubt Cy's injury was big,and when he returned we did manage to beat PSU with both Cole and him on the floor doing a high-low post type of offense. I will never forget lick being asked if we would see that again,and he said no, it was simply a matchup deal for one game...again, that inflexibilty rears its head.

The SA era was rife with these kind of ''if only'' scenarios...it is the legacy of Iowa bb really...we always have had injuries,suspensions,or dropouts over the years. Ray Thompson,Jeff Walker,Sondy,Recker,Ronnie,Chris Street,Tylers Dad,Jakes mom,Sommerville,Scott,Perry,Skinner,Tucker,Davis,Freeman,Range,PP,ect...ect...ect..

As the line goes...''we coulda been a contender!!''

Lick has had some bad luck,but that comes with the territory known was Iowa bb.
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I remember that PSU game JH...one of the most enjoyable games of the Lick era and I remember that Lick quote afterwards. Some the stuff he says just doesn't make any sense. Very similar to him being satisfied w/ the PG position for next year.

I agree that his overall negative attitude does grind on players. That is probably why he was much better at Butler. He came into a program w/ a much better overall confidence level and a system already established. He didn't have to build it. I really don't think Lick's personality goes well w/ losing. Players will put up w/ the negativity if they are winning on the court but when you don't see any success on the court it wears on you very fast. Thus when things started going bad after Tate and Tucker went down, they went bad very fast.
 
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