Thanks Marc. The more I hear the more convinced I become Steve Forbes could be the long term home run we all hope for. Now if we can just get Barta to agree.
When Forbes is hired...
- Thread starter Lionhawk
- Start date
Thanks Marc. The more I hear the more convinced I become Steve Forbes could be the long term home run we all hope for. Now if we can just get Barta to agree.
Iowa fans would come out next year for two possible reasons:
1. A big splash coach like Pearl or maybe Drew.
2. A big splash recruit or two.
Honestly, I think most fans still come to games to be entertained not by a coach, but by amazing feats performed by talented players.
If Forbes could swing even one top player, joining a pretty well thought of recruiting class...that could be a top 20 class...that would generate a lot of interest right there.
Of course, winning pretty early on would be nice also. We do not play a super tough holiday tourny this year at the Virgin Isles,and we will have ISU and UNI at home,so they might be able to go 10-4 or 11-3....that would boost interest and attendance.
I think there will be curiosity for Larson,Marble,and Brust...and any others that are added...
1. A big splash coach like Pearl or maybe Drew.
2. A big splash recruit or two.
Honestly, I think most fans still come to games to be entertained not by a coach, but by amazing feats performed by talented players.
If Forbes could swing even one top player, joining a pretty well thought of recruiting class...that could be a top 20 class...that would generate a lot of interest right there.
Of course, winning pretty early on would be nice also. We do not play a super tough holiday tourny this year at the Virgin Isles,and we will have ISU and UNI at home,so they might be able to go 10-4 or 11-3....that would boost interest and attendance.
I think there will be curiosity for Larson,Marble,and Brust...and any others that are added...
condorrr27
Member
Steve Forbes was not even that good as a head coach at the Juco level. I watched Indian Hills dominate his teams!! This would be a disaster if he is given the HC job!!!
tiggerhawk
Well-Known Member
Before you write in Forbes as the next coach bear in mind that the very strengths that the people who know Forbes best, have a lot of experience dealing with him, think highly of him may not be so much strengths as potential problems to the Iowa search committee.
Recall the emphasis in the closing remarks of Barta in his press conference, that the search would be for a coach who clearly has Iowa values and would share the same outlook as the university. Everyone around the Iowa administration knows that this comes from President Mason. There continues to be apparently an unawareness on the part of many fans that the major players in the U of Iowa administration did NOT see Alford's bringing in Noodles Neal as a positive, but instead for them it was a source of great concern that his associations and methods were a risk of adverse publicity
And a huge share of the doubts were about his ties with hustlers around the summer AAU teams. Ironically, the adverse publicity when it came did not directly involve the AAU teams but centered upon Neal's targeting of kids with dubious academic backgrounds involved with the phony "prep academies"--still, many influential players in the Iowa administration are determined never again to have major stories on the front pages of the NY Times, Washington Post, Los Ageles Times, Philadelphia Inquirer, etc prominently linking the U of Iowa basketball program to scandals of such proportions that the NCAA was forced finally to act.
This is why Barbee was not going to get considered by the search committee. In Forbes case, it isn't even necessarily a cloud--but it does mean that the committee is going to want information about his ties with some of the AAU programs (notably a top Indiana program headed by a guy whose son Alford-Neal brought to Iowa & gave an athletic schollie at one point). And they are going to want an account of Forbes role as a recruiter for Bruce Pearl with respect to a highly touted kid from Baltimore who committed, then backed off from the U-TN program; there are indications that the kid is going to become the focus of NCAA (and media) attention because of concerns about improprieties by AAU hustlers and the major shoe & athletic apparel companies (e.g., Addidas, Nike) in his recruitment.
It should be stressed that the details may not reflect on Forbes at all: he seems to have a good reputation, But because he was involved in the kid's recruitment, the prospect that he could be swept into a potential scandal almost certainly means that the Iowa search committee is not going to get into serious negotiations with Forbes until they are satisfied that he embodies those "Iowa values" that Barta stressed (in other words, his selection and subsequent tenure at Iowa will be a positive for the university, that he can be Tom Davis, neither an Alford or a Lickliter). The situation and circumstances are very much in Forbes favor: both his parents were well respected and well liked long time of Iowa staff; he himself still has many ties and friends in the area, and has straight-arrow written all over him; BUT because he is so close to much that doesn't seem to smell just right, the U of Iowa is going to make sure that he is there kind of guy.
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MarcMaggard
Well-Known Member
First, the suggestions by some that Nike is somehow involved in the Selby decommitment is silly. Selby decommitted from UT cause that flex offense doesn't do good at putting pros in the league. Has nothing to do with shoes. I know because I had long conversations with Maeshon (his mom) where she made this concern known MANY TIMES....and this was long before there was any real "connection" between Selby and Nike handlers. It's a made up story.... nothing more than a bunch of drama to sell papers and get hits.
Second, if Iowa is going to stay away from coaches who can recruit top AAU teams, Iowa will lose many games. But to suggest that Noodle and Forbes work in anywhere NEAR the same manner is inaccurate as well. Forbes enjoys a great reputation where Neal has had many suspicions raised.
mm
MarcMaggard
Well-Known Member
LOL.... Indian Hills is one of the top JUCO programs of all time. If they didn't destroy Barton CC, I'd be amazed. That's like saying Cornell's coach isn't any good cause UK beat them by 17.
mm
hawkfarmer
Well-Known Member
Really? This is your argument? Cause he got dominated by one team as a juco coach. He can obviously recruit at a high level and that's what makes him a candidate. He can run some X and O, and he can always get someone special to help with that.
Did you not want Davis cause he got dominated in the Pac-10; did you think Lickliter was going to be awesome cause he dominated the Horizon?
That was a while ago and his resume as a recruiter is much more important than his Juco record.
Give me a break.
MarcMaggard
Well-Known Member
Don't let his post fool you.... Steve Forbes was wildly successful as a JUCO head coach. He produced 3 Juco All Americans in just 3 years as head coach at Barton. He went 68-28 and beat 15 nationally ranked JUCO teams in that time span and was nationally ranked twice at the end of the year at Barton.
It's also helpful to understand that every year at a JUCO is a rebuilding year. You never have much of a team coming back..... so those who win at JUCO's typically are VERY good recruiters.
mm
MarcMaggard
Well-Known Member
I have no idea. Not sure he even wanted to interview for any job till now. To my knowledge, this is the first job he's even had an interest in since joining Pearl. You don't leave Pearl to go coach at any ole school.
But as I've said before, it's a moot point. Whether other schools have attempted to hire him before or not has zero to do with how qualified or successful he'd be.
Josh Pastner didn't turn down any jobs before taking Memphis....... I'm sure Iowa would love to have the #1 recruiting class in the nation coming in.....
mm
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Pastner was like 29 when he got the job, Forbes is just a little older, not a real good comparison. You would think someone with as much potential as it sounds like Forbes has would have had earlier offers to become a head coach.
MarcMaggard
Well-Known Member
It's a great comparison. Not sure why age makes it a bad one in your mind.... both had about 10 years as top assistants..... I know both of these guys VERY well and the similarities in the two as recruiters are eery.
And Forbes ALREADY has been a head coach. His path to the top wasn't as easy as Pastner..... Forbes' father doesn't run the top AAU team in the 4th largest city in the USA. But both are amazing recruiters.... but Forbes has more head coaching experience.....
mm
Don't mind Tigger,MM, to him, Painter,Matta,Izzo,Weber,Tubby...none of these guys would make the cut in his world because they recruit top talent , which makes them tainted. Because the top talent does play AAU ball, at programs outside pristine Iowa, they are naturally suspect. All prep schools...tainted. All Canadians...tainted. All other foreign players...tainted.
Obviously, the real world intruded into the bubble when Barta pointed out the 11,000 empty seats to Mason,and it dawned on Mason that just having solid student athletes is not sufficent to bring fans to Carver.
Obviously, the real world intruded into the bubble when Barta pointed out the 11,000 empty seats to Mason,and it dawned on Mason that just having solid student athletes is not sufficent to bring fans to Carver.
beanjo12
Well-Known Member
get a clue..because he got beat by one of the best juco teams of all time?
tiggerhawk
Well-Known Member
Your response somewhat misunderstands the thrust of my remarks. If you noted it, I very explicitly did not express any opinion on the controversy centering upon the kid from Baltimore. Nor did I suggest that Iowa could or should avoid HS kids who play AAU ball in the summer (wouldn't have much of a pond to fish in if it did).
You may be overlooking an important factor of perspective. Your posts, as I would expect, reflect your long & extensive experience dealing with AAU programs, and the HS kids being recruited. You are familiar with the facts of the recruitment of the Baltimore youngster. On the other hand, you don't have experience with the U of Iowa administration, the Hawkeye basketball program, or the details of how Iowa got hugely embarassed by the Alford-Neal involvement with some AAU hustlers, several of the most scandalous "prep academies"--and the extent to which the key administrative players at Iowa are on guard against getting burned again.
What you may not realize is that the U of Iowa has a very matriarchal power structure, with particularly a lot of weight being thrown around by faculty & staff in the UI Hospitals & Clinics (largest teaching hospital in the USA), physical & occupational therapy--activists who while not hostile have priorities not especially sympathetic to the Iowa men's basketball program as it has operated the last ten years.
My point is you may know that there is no substance to suspicions about Forbes relationship with AAU programs, the best or the dubious either one; and you may know in his role as a recruited at Tennessee & previous positions he has conducted him admirably....BUT the middle-aged women who President Mason put on the search committee SHE APPOINTED have not had personal experience with AAU programs, they have no reason to have even heard of the kid from Baltimore. But there is no way to say this tactfully, but the hard truth is that most people at Iowa who have any real interest in college athletics tend to have negative views of the SEC & its member schools (including KY), and strongly suspect that the programs are corrupt to some degree or other, including & especially recruiting. These women live and play their roles on the Iowa faculty in a milieu where AAU programs are suspect, and Forbes' career since leaving Iowa juco ball has been spent in programs that raise the collective eyebrow of Iowans.
May be foolish. May be without a shred of evidence. MY point is, that the situation at Iowa is one where worry about getting caught in scandal and doubts about AAU programs as a potential corrupting factor are very, very real on the part of the key players at Iowa.
As I said in my post, there is little reason to doubt that Forbes won't hold up well under scrutiny; his family are longtime U of Iowa staff, highly reespected and well-liked and his own past here made him a lot of friends and earned him the positive benefit of any doubt. HOWEVER, there will be scrutiny, and because that means time-consuming enquiry, his prospects of getting the Hawkeye coaching job may depend upon whether Barta has enough patience to do his job right.
Personally, my vague impressions are that Forbes seems to be one of the best of the feasible candidates for Iowa; my greater concern is not whether the search committee can find a guy who can win the right way at Iowa but whether the naif who takes the job will have a reasonable period of time to creat a stable program that can hold its own in the Big Ten.
The history of the past ten years is paradoxical: the women's basketball coach has had time to build a solid program on the cusp of consistent contendinging for BT titles; the football coach has had time to build a program where success looks like it will attract more big time prospects; Alford got much more time than his performance merited despite the scandals of his program; on the other hand, Lickliter was ousted quickly, as was the first wrestling coach after Gable stepped down, there has been a revolving door of volleyball coaches, but otherwise most of the non-revenue sports have had good coaches hired & given time without undue expectations.
We could make a looong list of current Division I coaches who have been wildly successful that were not announced to a big "splash" or fanfare. Alfraud was a "sexy" hire that made a splash and look what happened. I remember Iowa fans ready to jump off buildings after not getting Stoops.
No question Forbes wants the job and it appears he can recruit but this is no gurantee he is going to come in here and take us to the top . The previous Indian Hills Coach that coached against Forbes won 90 plus games in a row , back to back National Championships ; constantly bringing in blue chip players. He went on to Iowa State as an assistant and later landed A Div. 1 job and struggled to win. I thought this coach was every bit on the level of Forbes ; but unfortunately he didn't enjoy the success at the D1 school that he had at the juco ranks. I'd be shocked if Forbes is near the top of Barta's list .
condorrr27
Member
I agree the first thing forbes needs to do is go on a diet and lose about 30 pounds!!
rwtsracefan
Well-Known Member
I want to thank Marc Maggard for his insight and knowledge concerning Coach Forbes. When we can get the insight from someone with an unbiased oppinion I find it really informative. I did a little research on Marc and he runs a fan site concerning Kentucky basketball. Thanks for your input Marc,come back and visit us more often!
Dan Wemett(rwtsracefan)
Dan Wemett(rwtsracefan)
