What did the anti-Ferentz Crowd Think of Saturday?

[RobHowe]

rob, isn't there a rule on this board about trolling? i think it is wholly unfair to generalize all who have been critical of kirk and his coaching style and label them as "the anti-ferentz crowd." Unless you mean literally those who hate kirk, but you didn't start your post with that distinction or clarification. kirk ferentz is a good human being and that cannot be publicly refuted, but i would assume that there are good human beings among those who are critical of kirk, as well. being critical of kirk, with honest and forthright statements is still okay, i thought.

anyway, congratulations to kirk for avg 7.5789 wins per season for 19 seasons plus 1 game and becoming the all time winningest coach in iowa football history. i have now lived through and watch almost all of iowa's wins for both hayden fry kirk ferentz. to me there is a huge difference between the first 143 and the next 144. to each his own. i'll just add that hayden did things the right way, also, did he not?

I would just point out that, had it not been for two missed chip shot fg's, we would have been down at half on saturday 6-3. so, you could say saturday was microcosm of the last 19 seasons plus 1 game for a kirk ferentz coached team. you yell at the t.v. screen for large portions of the game because the team looks like crap and/or unimaginative, but then you win the game 7.5789 times each season.

I don’t believe everybody that criticizes KF is anti-Ferentz. I criticize him when I feel like he deserves it.

I was asking the anti-Ferentz people how they felt. It’s not for me to define who that is. I think we could probably come to the conclusion that there are some in this thread by reading their responses.

I really just wanted to see where a thread on him breaking a significant record would go. Overall, it’s been a good discussion with some well thought out responses.

 

[LicThawk]

I don't hate the guy by any means. I'm all Iowa Football. I just think with a loose grip on the reins we could take advantage of the goods of Kirk Ferentz and put behind us some of the not-so-goods. What is life without hope.

 

[HuckFinn]

I never made that argument - it's a great thing to win 144 games, see my posts under 144. I'm super happy that we've had two good coaches back to back.

My reference was general and not intended for you...sorry about the misunderstanding, my fault.

 

[NoBeer]

That's my biggest pet peeve against Kirk.......He left a lot of meat on the bone. He had an opportunity to where this isn't even a debate.

Yeah, I made a comment in another thread about Kirk losing games he shouldn't have and someone asked for examples. Seriously? Where have you been? There were two last year alone.

 

[GotTimDodge]

I'm pro Kirk after wins, anti Kirk after losses.
This allows me to see things objectively, and not let my emotions interfere.

 

[NoBeer]

I don’t believe everybody that criticizes KF is anti-Ferentz. I criticize him when I feel like he deserves it.

I was asking the anti-Ferentz people how they felt. It’s not for me to define who that is. I think we could probably come to the conclusion that there are some in this thread by reading their responses.

I really just wanted to see where a thread on him breaking a significant record would go. Overall, it’s been a good discussion with some well thought out responses.

I think its telling that so many people self-selected into the anti-Ferentz bucket. I am a Ferentz critic. I'm not anti-Ferentz nor a hater so you're question is not addressed to me.

That said, I think Kirk deserves some credit. Its hard to win at Iowa and there is more parity now than when Hayden was coach. While Ferentz can clearly be shown to fall short of Fry in some areas, I think unless you could see Fry coaching today, its hard to say he would be better in the same environment.

Hayden Fry beat Wisconsin 15 times. I don't see him winning 15/20 in the Ferentz era. I just don't. Similar story with ISU.

I like Kirk as a person, from what I've been able to glean. He can frustrate the hell out of me on the field on game day and I think he made a terrible blunder hiring GD. Brian Ferentz as OC remains to be seen but I think it will always be a FAIR question to ask if that was really the best hire we could have made when we didn't even open it up.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

There's nothing "skewed" about it. The wins and losses totals are what they are. Kirk has the most wins ever, he also has the most losses ever. That's not an "argument" ... those are facts.

If you prefer to go with the "winning percentage" interpretation, Fry has a higher winning percentage.That too is a fact. Infer from it what you want.

We're very fortunate to have had two coaches like Hayden and Kirk, back to back.

Precisely, whats your point? Why make an argument that one's winning percentage is "slightly" higher?

 

[HawkGold]

I think things are going in the right direction. There is more interior speed. The receiver issue is hard to explain. 4-8 is hard to explain.

 

[NoBeer]

There's nothing "skewed" about it. The wins and losses totals are what they are. Kirk has the most wins ever, he also has the most losses ever. That's not an "argument" ... those are facts.

If you prefer to go with the "winning percentage" interpretation, Fry has a higher winning percentage.That too is a fact. Infer from it what you want.

We're very fortunate to have had two coaches like Hayden and Kirk, back to back.

That's getting really specific. If Ferentz manages to eek out a higher percentage before retiring does that make him a better coach?

 

[proudhawkfan21]

I don’t believe everybody that criticizes KF is anti-Ferentz. I criticize him when I feel like he deserves it.

I was asking the anti-Ferentz people how they felt. It’s not for me to define who that is. I think we could probably come to the conclusion that there are some in this thread by reading their responses.

I really just wanted to see where a thread on him breaking a significant record would go. Overall, it’s been a good discussion with some well thought out responses.

Common sense from someone on this board. Refreshing.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Many schools would have terminated Kirk during his low periods. Iowa is different. They gave him the opportunity to stick around after the lows. And because of that he's steadily delivered 6-8 wins more often than not. 19 X 7.5 wins gets you to 144.

The thing we don't and will never know at this point is if say Iowa fired KF who would they have gotten to replace him and how would things have gone then? To fire KF would mean you intend on improving upon what he did and man Iowa is one bad coaching hire away from being what Illinois is... Or what Purdue was till just recently with Broehm coming on. By sticking with KF we got that 12-0 year. We avoided 3 to 5 win stinker of seasons that would have made us beyond irrelevant. More so than what the anti-KF crowd thinks we currently are. The one thing keeping KF all this time has done is it's set a bar above being terrible with occasionally having been strait up special and awesome. There are so many stories of good players and better people having come through be it a no star walk on in Dallas Clark and Robert Gallery, To overlooked kids like Bob Sanders, Desmond King and Josh Jackson. To say I could go on and on would be an understatement. So let's just say none of them and their stories of representing Iowa would have been possible without KF. Is KF perfect? No. Would some folks have preferred a more offensively exciting style instead of defensive? Ok well that is what it is. I've had a ton of fun following Iowa the last 20 plus years of my adult life and look forward to more. I wear my Hawkeye gear proudly when I go out. That has a lot to do with KF.

Does that mean I won't bitch about this or that happening now and then? Of course not I'm a fan and arm chair QB too. But I try to have perspective as well. Iowa is in a pretty good spot. Is it in as good of a spot as I would like? Well no I'd like to see some playoff appearences and hell why not a national title while I'm asking for my ultimate Xmas gift. But here's a little thing called being realistic that comes into play as well. Iowa will always pretty much regardless of who is coaching always have an uphill climb at being a top 5 level team. I don't think it's impossible but it's just going to be tough. We've shown we can be a top 10 team multiple times in a row. I think with a solid QB, Oline, RBs and skill guys there's a chance of it again the next couple years. Things will have to bounce our way for it to happen and I'm fired up to see. Bring on ISU

 

[Adam]

This thread (and several more like them) are starting to convince me that I just need to stay away from here altogether during the season. I follow Hawkeye football for entertainment, and I first start coming around here in 2009 when I had just finished my thesis and finally had a little more free time on my hand. I thought it would be a good way to get extra info and increase the entertainment value of following the Hawks. And many times it can be that. But there are also times when it is just plain miserable to browse past.

I was at the game. I came away encouraged. There was plenty of bad, but more of the correctable variety than the fatally flawed variety. The team showed some definite strengths that lead me to believe they have a pretty high ceiling.

I come by here to see what others thought, and the negativity is just oppressive. Some of it is well-grounded, but with a glass-half-empty feel. Much of it is just stupid from people who do not understand the nature of sports. Two specific examples come to mind:

• I saw a claim that any other team with the Hawk's talent not held back by the ineptitude of KF would have scored 50+ on NIU, and I guess presumably won the game by 40+. NIU was RPI #52, top 35 in the country in scoring defense last year, 4-1 in their last 5 games vs. the B1G, and has the 15th best winning percentage in the nation under the current coach as a road dog. Iowa won easily, played backups through most of the 4th quarter, and covered by +16. Meanwhile, Wisconsin played the RPI #121 team and won by an almost identical score. MSU played the RPI #79 team and was down in the 4th quarter. PSU played the RPI #71 team and snuck past them in OT. Also in the top 25, Stanford and USC beat worse opponents than NIU by smaller margins than 26.
• The claims that Iowa's play calling and offense design were unimaginative, overly conservative, and inept are just plain wrong. Iowa struggled mightily in the first half, but the plays were there to be made. Iowa did not execute. Lack of execution is absolutely on the coaches, it is their job to have the players ready. But claiming that the issue was with design just shows a complete lack of understanding of the game. The claim that Iowa's WR are not winning is totally true however, and that is worrisome.

Those are just 2 examples of things I have read that frustrate me to an unreasonable degree. So why do I keep coming back? I really don't know. I am confident that I will enjoy the season more if I stay away, but there is an addictive quality to online interaction. I think I will try to stay away from the forums for a few weeks and see how things go, but chances are I will sneak back when I am bored at work and looking for a diversion. So maybe I will see you guys in a few weeks (or more likely 30 min).

The membership forums are less hysteric.

 

[Xerxes]

That's just it. There have been more bigger victories under Kfz, but there have been more bad losses as well.

Very true. Fry has the best win in modern program history (1985 Michigan) and maybe number 2 & 3 (1981 Nebraska and 1983 Ohio St) but Ferentz has a lot of mega-wins (way too many to list), a few ruining other teams championship dreams. And he has 3 better bowl wins than Fry ever did and he's made Kinnick a far more feared place to play.

But overall the two are extremely similar in terms of results. Aside from what you mentioned, Fry's teams, at least after the first few years, had better offenses than Kirk's teams, while KF's teams has fielded far better defenses. It helps that Norm was here so long and was never going to be a HC. His defense won a lot of games. Fry lost a lot of good assistants.

Both had a great decade after a few rebuilding years (Fry 1981-1991 and Ferentz 2001-2010) in which Iowa was consistently in the top 25. Then they both fell off and struggled to stay in the rankings the rest of their tenures. The difference of course is Ferentz had the undefeated regular season in 2015 and division championship. And his story is still being written.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

That's getting really specific. If Ferentz manages to eek out a higher percentage before retiring does that make him a better coach?

Counting wins and losses is getting "specific"? I can't think of a more fundamental way to measure success in sports, other than Championships. (which not everyone achieves)

You're really angling to spin something here. I just gave you the numbers. Wins and losses, and yes win percentage are how coaches and athletes are measured. Is it really that hard to understand?

 

[AreWeThereYet]

Understood, but his record of most losses is a product of the same thing his record of wins is. It's simply a matter of sticking around at one school for a long time due to a very patient fan base with lower expectations. I don't think either record is that big of a deal. Kudos to Kirk for sticking around 2 decades and getting his son an OC job though. That's an accomplishment. His win/loss record is ho hum in my opinion.

A winning percentage of 59.85 over 20 years is pretty good. It's around 30th over that span out of 128 teams, give or take a few. Could Iowa have landed a better fit for the program at coach. I would say there are a dozen or so coaches that could have done better over a similar span with what Iowa has to offer in the way of recruiting base and reputation. Few of those would have signed and even fewer would have stuck around. I'm not sure you fully grasp how low the odds are of getting what you want.

 

[MoseSchrute]

The membership forums are less hysteric.

I find hysterics to be quite entertaining.

 

[cincyhawk]

A winning percentage of 59.85 over 20 years is pretty good. It's around 30th over that span out of 128 teams, give or take a few. Could Iowa have landed a better fit for the program at coach. I would say there are a dozen or so coaches that could have done better over a similar span with what Iowa has to offer in the way of recruiting base and reputation. Few of those would have signed and even fewer would have stuck around. I'm not sure you fully grasp how low the odds are of getting what you want.

Bob Stoops would have signed and stuck around.

 

[NoBeer]

Counting wins and losses is getting "specific"? I can't think of a more fundamental way to measure success in sports, other than Championships. (which not everyone achieves)

You're really angling to spin something here. I just gave you the numbers. Wins and losses, and yes win percentage are how coaches and athletes are measured. Is it really that hard to understand?

Its not hard to understand but your view point is not the only valid one. It absolutely IS more than wins and losses. I'm sorry you can't see that.

 

[NoBeer]

The membership forums are less hysteric.

That's because no one posts there. If I weren't worried about getting in trouble I'd post a screenshot. Its a ghost town.

 

[tanaros]

We can try to explain the reason for the play calling all we want. When the announcer even says they ran the same play 7 times in a row and just changed the direction, that's what keeps Iowa from being a force in the big ten. End of story. We have inexperience at receivers. Why not throw the ball and have film to critique in time for the big games where we cant overpower no star athletes?

Daddy is still running the offense.

C'mon, be fair at that point Iowa was simply running out the clock. they ran the same play because a) they didn't need to run anything else and b) there's something to the old adage of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". there was absolutely no reason to run anything more complicated than run left, run right, and so on.