Weisman Vs. Coker

[SeattleHawkeye]

I do know that how fast the RB gets the ball and at a shorter depth makes the running game different. Allow Wman against weak opponents to get the ball shallow and quicker is different than backs getting the ball deeper and slower and against weaker d lines makes a difference. Coker tore shreads thru Mizzou. The line back then was more developed and could run more drawn out plays. Iowa with Wman is a more simple running game where he chooses where to run after the line of scrimmage where Coker had to wait for things to develop before hitting the line.

Big difference. Wait till the Hawks play better competition before making strong comparisons.

Also concerning is KF going conservative and losing momentum. Happened when he took WMan out of the game in 1st half. Broke momentum. Then again that has oft been a KF trait.

I don't fault a lot of the coaching decisions from yesterday. I'd have loved to seen Weisman get more carries the 2nd half, particularly w/ Rogers in front of him (b/c I think he runs better w/ a FB), but they had a decent lead and it seemed obvious they were trying to get JVB going (at least I hope that was the goal).

That said, could you explain the difference between the zone running game they're utilizing now compared to what they've run the past 4-5 yrs? (That seems to be what you're arguing above, which I think is fundamentally wrong.) From what I can tell, things haven't changed, and it can be easy to discern a player's physical attributes regardless of competition. Many of us saw it comparing Jake C. and Stanzi, and right now I don't think it's tough to see Weisman is running better than Coker did last season. Coker ran differently as a frosh than as a sophomore, and that seems apparent to a lot of us. It's your prerogative to disagree, but I think it's obvious to many Coker underachieved last season (regardless of his stats) w/ his change in running style. I think if Coker had run like Weisman, he'd have pushed 1,750 yards last season, instead the 1,350 he tallied. You can argue a RB's quickness determines the depth he lines up, but beyond that, the zone blocking scheme hasn't changed.

 

[iahawks912]

I think I'll wait til I see Weisman run against a defense with a pulse before I crown him. But I do agree with the OP's comments about Coker. He was a good back as long as there was an identifiable hole straight in front of him. If he had to shift in any way, he was not so good.

IF YOU WANT TO CROWN HIM! THEN CROWN HIS ***

 

[528646]

IF YOU WANT TO CROWN HIM! THEN CROWN HIS ***

LOL!

 

[ssckelley]

Weisman runs how I expected Coker to run (and how Coker ran as a frosh) - plants his foot getting N and S, hits the alleys / lanes, and generally doesn't try to juke anyone - basically runs like FB playing TB, or a power back.
I'm still a little perplexed as to what Coker's deal was last season, but it was frustrating to watch. He left a ton of yards on the field due to the change in his running style, but he did always seem to fall forward and gain an extra yard or two. As far as Stony Brook goes, I assume Coker's getting mop-up carries and running into the back of his OL against stacked defenses when the D knows what's coming. I have no evidence this is the situation, but it seems obvious he's their #2 RB and isn't doing much.

Actually Coker is getting a huge amount of carries and is only 21 touches behind the starter. Through 5 games Stony Brook has only attempted 75 passes and they run the ball about 75% of the time so if he is running into stacked defenses so should the other tailbacks. Coker's yards per carry is only 4.1 while the starter is averaging 7.8 and the 3rd/4th string average over 11. It is weird how Coker's production have vastly fell off since transferring.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I have no idea about Stony Brook. Coaches can play who they want and do. I do know that how fast the RB gets the ball and at a shorter depth makes the running game different. Allow Wman against weak opponents to get the ball shallow and quicker is different than backs getting the ball deeper and slower and against weaker d lines makes a difference. Coker tore shreads thru Mizzou. The line back then was more developed and could run more drawn out plays. Iowa with Wman is a more simple running game where he chooses where to run after the line of scrimmage where Coker had to wait for things to develop before hitting the line.

Big difference. Wait till the Hawks play better competition before making strong comparisons.

What is concerning is the passing game against not so strong defenses and against teams without formidable offenses taking time off the clock.

Also concerning is KF going conservative and losing momentum. Happened when he took WMan out of the game in 1st half. Broke momentum. Then again that has oft been a KF trait.

He took Wesiman because he was gassed. Garmon ran exactly ONE play before Weisman came back in.

What you saw in the second half was not KF going conservative, it was a staff that knew the game was in the bag and used a game situation to work on some passing situations. Sure, they can work on those in practice, but it's not the same as an actual game.

 

[ILHawk]

I don't fault a lot of the coaching decisions from yesterday. I'd have loved to seen Weisman get more carries the 2nd half, particularly w/ Rogers in front of him (b/c I think he runs better w/ a FB), but they had a decent lead and it seemed obvious they were trying to get JVB going (at least I hope that was the goal).

That said, could you explain the difference between the zone running game they're utilizing now compared to what they've run the past 4-5 yrs? (That seems to be what you're arguing above, which I think is fundamentally wrong.) From what I can tell, things haven't changed, and it can be easy to discern a player's physical attributes regardless of competition. Many of us saw it comparing Jake C. and Stanzi, and right now I don't think it's tough to see Weisman is running better than Coker did last season. Coker ran differently as a frosh than as a sophomore, and that seems apparent to a lot of us. It's your prerogative to disagree, but I think it's obvious to many Coker underachieved last season (regardless of his stats) w/ his change in running style. I think if Coker had run like Weisman, he'd have pushed 1,750 yards last season, instead the 1,350 he tallied. You can argue a RB's quickness determines the depth he lines up, but beyond that, the zone blocking scheme hasn't changed.

I don't have time to post photos and video, but basically now WMan gets the ball from a turning qb with an option to tuck and do something different. In the past, Iowa RB's get the ball in a deliberate hand off with the qb holding the ball out and moving backwards. It buys more time.

If anything it tells me that the O line at this point really isn't as good yet as the past. The other way takes much more skill on the O line. When past backs hit the 2nd step past the line there were full speed. Wman is still accelerating. It's really easy to see....if you want to look honestly. So many Iowa fans can't see past the Black and Gold to look at what's going on.

What we don't have yet is a quick hitting qb. Maybe JVB will make the change, but his delivery has always been painfully slow. I don't know about Ruddick, but I've watched Wienke (locally) for a long time and he has a much more quick release. Lloyd Carr (respect him or not), had a pretty good success rate with Qb's and JW impressed him. Heck, ISU has a better record with QBs than does KF.

Ironically the ultimate success play of any KF qb was Tate v LSU and that was actually a big screw up turned miracle...and I loved it.

 

[whammer33024]

I don't have time to post photos and video, but basically now WMan gets the ball from a turning qb with an option to tuck and do something different. In the past, Iowa RB's get the ball in a deliberate hand off with the qb holding the ball out and moving backwards. It buys more time.

If anything it tells me that the O line at this point really isn't as good yet as the past. The other way takes much more skill on the O line. When past backs hit the 2nd step past the line there were full speed. Wman is still accelerating. It's really easy to see....if you want to look honestly. So many Iowa fans can't see past the Black and Gold to look at what's going on.

What we don't have yet is a quick hitting qb. Maybe JVB will make the change, but his delivery has always been painfully slow. I don't know about Ruddick, but I've watched Wienke (locally) for a long time and he has a much more quick release. Lloyd Carr (respect him or not), had a pretty good success rate with Qb's and JW impressed him. Heck, ISU has a better record with QBs than does KF.

Ironically the ultimate success play of any KF qb was Tate v LSU and that was actually a big screw up turned miracle...and I loved it.

lolwut?

 

[BQuastU]

How quickly people are forgetting both Coker's stats and timely performances. Insight Bowl v. Missouri, breaking tackles, out running defenders on long runs, knocking people over. Ohio State at home as a freshman. Again, showed good speed and power and had a bunch of yards before being yanked for Robinson. Michigan, etc., etc. Weisman is off to a great start, but you folks are awfully tough on a guy that showed up and put up.

 

[BonanzaHawk]

How quickly people are forgetting both Coker's stats and timely performances. Insight Bowl v. Missouri, breaking tackles, out running defenders on long runs, knocking people over. Ohio State at home as a freshman. Again, showed good speed and power and had a bunch of yards before being yanked for Robinson. Michigan, etc., etc. Weisman is off to a great start, but you folks are awfully tough on a guy that showed up and put up.

This brings up a really interesting point. I'd say Coker has been the most...enigmatic running back we've had in a while. Nobody can deny he produced. He definitely was a good back who got yards and did his job well. At the same time, you could always tell he had significant flaws as a ball carrier; being that he made all his cuts while wearing cinder-shoes, never took two hands off the ball, even in the open, so he could never reach top speed, and just couldn't really break tackles. It's a strange situation to have one of the most productive runners in the B1G, but yet have him leave so much more to be desired.

That said, I sincerely believe Weisman looks like a better ball carrier/dare I say "playmaker." There's going to be a Burkhead comparison made at some point.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I would take Weisman over Coker

I agree. (Until Weisman transfers)...gulp! Did NOT say that!

 

[HomerChampless]

Coker and Weisman are Ferentz's kind of backs. No flash. Tote the rock. Eat up clock. Hopefully for Weisman's sake, not a fumbler.

IMO, as long as he performs well, Ferentz won't be taking Weisman out of the starting lineup.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

IMO fairly similar with Weisman looking a little more polished with vision. I also think MW is quicker than most people think for the first 5-10 yards (size and skin color may have something to do with that). He's not a juker but he cuts very well and has a good change of direction, he rarely gets hit square once past the line, with his size that is great. Also, He has a Gift for using the stiff arm.

if not for injuries, I don't think anyone would ever have known, that goes for Any coaching staff btw way, for those that would say KF didn't "recognize" this talent...c'mon...the kid is 6 ft, 235 fullback, Sophomore transfer...who the hell would have known......regardless, i love it.

 

[urohawk]

Coker Freshman year was much better than Coker in his sophmore. There was talk of a nagging injury that slowed him a lot. Weisman has shown more burst and shiftiness than Coker but I will agree that the line has blocked better this year than in the past couple. You are consistently seeing dline being pushed backwards by Tobin, BS and CJF. Plus I feel we are pulling JF very effectively this year.

I do think Weisman showed me more this week than the previous two. I don't think the Goofers are very good (especially with Gray hurt) but I do think that their defense was actually decent this year and Weisman shredded them. Unfortunately he will have to do that every game for Iowa to win since JVB and the passing game is probably one of the bottom 5 in the country. If Weisman averages more than 5 yards per carry against MSU I will be thinking first team all big ten.

 

[kmajhawk]

With some of the holes the oline is creating I could average 5 yards per game. But I like how hard Weisman runs through the hole, he does not look to make a lot of moves and is not afraid to hit someone. Coker was also a beneficiary of running behind a good offensive line. But he took all his talents to Stony Brook where in yesterdays "upset" against Army he ran the ball 20 for 53 yards while the starter (yes Coker is backup) ran 32 times for 220 with 2 touchdowns.

Before you rag too much on Coker realize that he is "backing up" someone who rushed for more than 1,600 yards last year and as a senior is on pace to do the same, if not better, this year. If you're the Stony Brook coach, who do you start? I posted this in another thread:

...Coker is playing behind senior Miguel Maysonet, who led the Big South with 1,633 yards last season and is tearing it up again this year:

9/3/12 - 171 yards on 16 carries, 3 TDs, against Central Connecticut State. Big South Offensive Player of the Week.
9/8/12 - 53 yards on 7 carries, 2 TDs, against Pace. (Pulled early in 77-7 blowout of Div II opponent.)
9/17/12 - 158 yards, 1 TD, on 21 carries, loss to Syracuse. Big South Offensive Player of the Week.
9/22/12 - 198 yards, 1 TD, on 27 carries against Colgate
9/29/12 - 220 yards on 32 carries, 2 TDs, against Army.

Currently rated 12th out of 173 running backs in the NFL draft.

No way you pull a senior putting up those kinds of numbers in favor of a first-year transfer, even from Iowa. Let's see if you have the same opinion of Coker's performance at Stony Brook next year.​

 

[hawkeyebob62]

IMO fairly similar with Weisman looking a little more polished with vision. I also think MW is quicker than most people think for the first 5-10 yards (size and skin color may have something to do with that). He's not a juker but he cuts very well and has a good change of direction, he rarely gets hit square once past the line, with his size that is great. Also, He has a Gift for using the stiff arm.

if not for injuries, I don't think anyone would ever have known, that goes for Any coaching staff btw way, for those that would say KF didn't "recognize" this talent...c'mon...the kid is 6 ft, 235 fullback, Sophomore transfer...who the hell would have known......regardless, i love it.

Bingo. he's been playing FB since HS. Only the injuries put him into the RB rotation. NObody would have thought, "Hey, let's take this FB who went to Air Force and move him to RB because we have to make sure we're playing the best at every position!"

 

[storminspank]

Besides dropping that TD pass vs. ISU, Weisman has been nearly perfect this year in his time on the field. Been fun to watch.

 

[Hawkeye27]

Weisman is Loads faster and has much better vision. Coker did have some great stiff arms, but Weisman's stiff arm is like a battering ram he uses every play!

 

[greghammel]

Weisman continues to be the man! He has been tested at East Lansing and still ran for over 100 yards and a game tying late TD! Only a Sophomore and handles himself well. Interesting.

 

[dinfantry11b]

weisman eats the soul of anyone who dares to cross his path...nomnomnom...thus far I'd take Weisman on this without question. Not to take anything away from what Coker did but Weisman just has the edge. 100 plus yards in each game played so far, granted not against the greatest defenses but still impressive. Watching him lay 3 or 4 defenders right on their keysters a couple times a game is always fun to watch...Hope this injury doesn't keep him out of any playing time.

 

[ssckelley]

Weisman continues to be the man! He has been tested at East Lansing and still ran for over 100 yards and a game tying late TD! Only a Sophomore and handles himself well. Interesting.

First running back to rush for a 100 yards against Sparty, impressive. I hope the injury is not severe.