We need to get to a 7 man rotation

ArvadaHawk said:
Going to a 7 man rotation would be a mistake, in my opinion. Having 11 guys who are BIG level talented to chose from every night is amazing to have. If the players are willing (and this team appears to be) to learn their role, then having 11 potential players every night can be game changing. I am not sure why Iowa struggles against the good teams, like they have. Maybe they just need a killer instinct, or someone or something to play for. If they find that, guys, this team is legit enough to go 4 games deep into the NCAA BECAUSE of its depth. Right now, its all mental for this team, not physical, or team chemistry or cohesiveness (rotation). That's just my opinion.
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Almost every B1G team has talent from 1 to 11. There are variations on all the teams but their drop off is similar to what Iowa has right now. fOSU, MSU, Wisky's bench players are all just as strong as Iowa is at 11. Having the depth and always feeling the need to play the depth are two different things.

Don't get me wrong, it's good to see that we now have the depth that other B1G teams have had. It's nice to be able to run down to the end of the bench and put in that 11th guy without anticipating a grey shirt level talent. But those guys are 9th, 10th, and 11th best talent on the team. If they were better than White, Basabe, Gesell & company they would be starting in place of them not substituting for them.

To begin the season I believe we all were under the impression that we were going to be run and fun all night long. Well that simply isn't happening. Players are in the game for fairly long periods of time. They aren't running, we aren't pressing, and we aren't wearing down our opponents with our depth. If that was the case then you would see full on line changes al a Mr. Davis Davis style like we had in the mid-80s thru 1999. It's not happening.

It's time to get to a 7 or 8 man regular rotation and sprinkle in the Bawinkels of the world when fouls or rest are necessary.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
Didn't Sapp go through a little of this at the beginnin of last BIG season, also? I think he did. Maybe he's just one of those guys that, for whatever reason, starts slow at the beginning of conf play. But he sure has disappeared, recently. I think Iowa will definitely need him for 15 mins a game and 12 points/assists combined, throughout the BIG season.
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He did, but he never really bounced all the way back last year. And he wasn't making anywhere near the kind of impact early on this year that he was a year ago. He looks as though he can barely dribble right now; the ball seems to always be on the verge of just flying away from him on a crossover.
 
I still want to know how Wisky could play 6 1/2 guys, as implied by teh OP. I was at the game and didnt notice a half person running around out there.
 
hawkeye12345 said:
Almost every B1G team has talent from 1 to 11. There are variations on all the teams but their drop off is similar to what Iowa has right now. fOSU, MSU, Wisky's bench players are all just as strong as Iowa is at 11. Having the depth and always feeling the need to play the depth are two different things.

Don't get me wrong, it's good to see that we now have the depth that other B1G teams have had. It's nice to be able to run down to the end of the bench and put in that 11th guy without anticipating a grey shirt level talent. But those guys are 9th, 10th, and 11th best talent on the team. If they were better than White, Basabe, Gesell & company they would be starting in place of them not substituting for them.

To begin the season I believe we all were under the impression that we were going to be run and fun all night long. Well that simply isn't happening. Players are in the game for fairly long periods of time. They aren't running, we aren't pressing, and we aren't wearing down our opponents with our depth. If that was the case then you would see full on line changes al a Mr. Davis Davis style like we had in the mid-80s thru 1999. It's not happening.

It's time to get to a 7 or 8 man regular rotation and sprinkle in the Bawinkels of the world when fouls or rest are necessary.
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Do you really notice a big dropoff when Fran starts making substitutions? I certainly don't. I think a starting lineup of Sapp, Oglesby/Jok, Uthoff, McCabe and Olaseni would be pretty salty. Obviously Gesell, Dev, White, Basabe and Woody are starting for a reason but Iowa wants to run and if we leave the same guys in for the majority of the game, they will be gassed. And I'm not just referring to individual games. The basketball season is long and even college athletes can get worn out. The beauty of this team is that come March, they should have more gas in their tanks than most teams. That's an advantage a lot of teams don't have and can be crucial when it comes to making a run in the tourney.
 
hawkeye12345 said:
Current minutes per game:

Marble 26.9
White 24.9
Gesell 21.0
Uthoff 20.6
Basabe 18.3
Clemmons 17.4
McCabe 16.5
Woody 16.3
Olaseni 16.1
Oglewinkel 14
Jok 13.6

Woody and Olaseni total only 33 minutes combined. That leaves, on average, 7 game minutes that are played by someone other than a player taller than 6'10" at the C position. Unacceptable especially since Woody has fouled out of only 2 games this year and Gabe has none.

It should look closer to this (200 game minutes per game with +/- 5 for statistical variance):

Proposed minutes per game:

Marble 35
White 31
Gesell 30
Uthoff 31
Basabe 25
Clemmons 5
McCabe 6.5
Woody 18
Olaseni 18
Oglewinkel 3
Jok 2
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If I were White and Marble and we were losing games like we have this year I would be so pizzed that I was getting 25 minutes a game. This is the downside of depth. I know when I was playing and I was getting pulled for a weaker player just because the coach subscribed to the whole "depth" theory and had a chart with how many minutes everyone needed to play it really started to cause some animosity and problems between player-coach and player-player. At some points the weaker players were almost refusing to sub in because they wanted to win, not play a certain number of minutes.
 
clicheusername3 said:
If I were White and Marble and we were losing games like we have this year I would be so pizzed that I was getting 25 minutes a game. This is the downside of depth. I know when I was playing and I was getting pulled for a weaker player just because the coach subscribed to the whole "depth" theory and had a chart with how many minutes everyone needed to play it really started to cause some animosity and problems between player-coach and player-player. At some points the weaker players were almost refusing to sub in because they wanted to win, not play a certain number of minutes.
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Marble has averaged 36 mins/game in losses, White has averaged 31 in the losses, so this post is another C.UNT fail, like usual.
 
AdamHawk said:
Do you really notice a big dropoff when Fran starts making substitutions? I certainly don't. I think a starting lineup of Sapp, Oglesby/Jok, Uthoff, McCabe and Olaseni would be pretty salty. Obviously Gesell, Dev, White, Basabe and Woody are starting for a reason but Iowa wants to run and if we leave the same guys in for the majority of the game, they will be gassed. And I'm not just referring to individual games. The basketball season is long and even college athletes can get worn out. The beauty of this team is that come March, they should have more gas in their tanks than most teams. That's an advantage a lot of teams don't have and can be crucial when it comes to making a run in the tourney.
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There is a HUGE drop off in performance at the 1-2 spots in Big Ten games thus far:

Josh and AC have combined for 2 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists and 6 turnovers in 46 minutes.
 
ibahawkeye said:
There is a HUGE drop off in performance at the 1-2 spots in Big Ten games thus far:

Josh and AC have combined for 2 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists and 6 turnovers in 46 minutes.
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That's a pretty small sample size to make your argument. Is it your opinion that that's indicative of what they bring to the table?
 
hawkfan33 said:
Marble has averaged 36 mins/game in losses, White has averaged 31 in the losses, so this post is another C.UNT fail, like usual.
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As usual, you don't read teh content, just the username. They need to be playing that many minutes every game is the point of the post. Not sure why you constantly dig for contradictions just makes you look desperate. We are all aware that you never produce any original content of your own and just leech off of others that actually put themselves out there to make yourself look cool or whatever it is your going for.
 
clicheusername3 said:
If I were White and Marble and we were losing games like we have this year I would be so pizzed that I was getting 25 minutes a game. This is the downside of depth. I know when I was playing and I was getting pulled for a weaker player just because the coach subscribed to the whole "depth" theory and had a chart with how many minutes everyone needed to play it really started to cause some animosity and problems between player-coach and player-player. At some points the weaker players were almost refusing to sub in because they wanted to win, not play a certain number of minutes.
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hawkfan33 said:
Marble has averaged 36 mins/game in losses, White has averaged 31 in the losses, so this post is another C.UNT fail, like usual.
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clicheusername3 said:
As usual, you don't read teh content, just the username. They need to be playing that many minutes every game is the point of the post. Not sure why you constantly dig for contradictions just makes you look desperate. We are all aware that you never produce any original content of your own and just leech off of others that actually put themselves out there to make yourself look cool or whatever it is your going for.
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LOL so your argument is that White and Marble should be ****** that they aren't playing 35 mins against Abilene Christian and Maryland Eastern-Shore? LOL you should go back to just one line comments, because while you're bad at trolling, you're even worse at trying to make valid points.
 
hawkfan33 said:
LOL so your argument is that White and Marble should be ****** that they aren't playing 35 mins against Abilene Christian and Maryland Eastern-Shore? LOL you should go back to just one line comments, because while you're bad at trolling, you're even worse at trying to make valid points.
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Yes, as you can see from the quotes in your post I mentioned Abilene Christian and MES many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times.

You're getting trolled right now, if I was bad at trolling you wouldn't be responding and trying to argue with me about something I care absolutely nothing about.
 
clicheusername3 said:
Yes, as you can see from the quotes in your post I mentioned Abilene Christian and MES many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times.

You're getting trolled right now, if I was bad at trolling you wouldn't be responding and trying to argue with me about something I care absolutely nothing about.
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So what games should Marble and White be ****** about not playing more minutes in? LOL
 
clicheusername3 said:
Yes, as you can see from the quotes in your post I mentioned Abilene Christian and MES many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times.

You're getting trolled right now, if I was bad at trolling you wouldn't be responding and trying to argue with me about something I care absolutely nothing about.
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You dont get it and now are just sounding like an idiot.

In the 3 losses White has played 30, 32 and 31 minutes. Marble has played 37, 35 and 36 minutes in those 3 losses. Why would they be pizzed they are playing 25 MPG when Iowa is crushing teams?
 
hawkfan33 said:
It's not often you get to see someone go in full melt down mode like C.UNT is in this thread. He mad. LOL.
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Yes, as you can see from the quotes in your post I mentioned Abilene Christian and MES many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times.

You're getting trolled right now, if I was bad at trolling you wouldn't be responding and trying to argue with me about something I care absolutely nothing about.
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So what games should Marble and White be ****** about not playing more minutes in? LOL
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I'll just pretend this didn't happen just like you pretended this didn't happen.
 
AdamHawk said:
That's a pretty small sample size to make your argument. Is it your opinion that that's indicative of what they bring to the table?
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I agree that it is a small sample size. My point was really only to point out that the back up 1-2 spots are not getting it done thus far into conference play which of course may chang in the future.

Nonetheless, in regards to is there a big drop off when Fran makes substitions... The answer is absolutley yes because of the 2 spot. Even if all other positions were deemed equal, if we take Marble from the 2, at this point we have nobody that can come in and play that position.
 
clicheusername3 said:
I know you are a pedantic POS but come on now.
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In Iowa's 7 games against teams with a pulse thus far (Drake, Xavier, Nova, ND, ISU, Nebraska and Wisky), Marble has averaged 34.7 mpg (the Drake game brings that down). White has averaged 31.7 mpg (again, the Drake game brings that down). That's not that far off from what you're calling for.

They're playing the kind of minutes you'd expect relative to the opponent. They aren't going to have averages of 35 mpg for the season, especially when the majority of their games have come against crap competition where they sit most of the second half.
 
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