We need to get to a 7 man rotation

[sodakhawkeye]

I would be for a 9 man rotation

1) Gesell - Clemmons.
2) Marble - Gessell - Uthoff Play some zone with Uthoff at the 2. Lots of length on the floor
3) white - Uthoff - Marble
4) Basabe - McCabe and White
5) Woody - Gabe - Basabe

If we need to get to 10 for any reason split Jok/Ogelsby until 1 of them can consistently hit the 3. I'd take my chances with Jok. I'd rather live and learn with his mistakes than watch O plod along and not be able to get a shot off.

 

[DaBears]

We can't play at the pace we want or press with this type of min distribution in my opinion.

ISU, Arizona, Duke, Baylor (to name a few) disagree.

 

[hawkeye12345]

Yeah, I agreed with you...and it's becoming more evident with each post in this thread.

Yeah, you're right bro. Apparently accurately depicting a tactic that is used by many of the top D1 coaches shows my ignorance for the game.

Iowa has 11 players averaging double digit minutes per game this year and only one player that exceeds 25 per game (Marble).

NO player exceeds 30 minutes per game.

Four players (Marble, White, Gesell, Uthoff) average > 20 minutes.

All 11 players that average double digit minutes exceed 13 per game.

Point? Do you really think that our 11th best player is as good as any of above him? Good enough to warrant logging that many mpg?

Compare that to a few of the 'elite' Big10 programs:

Iowa
11 players average double digits
0 players exceed 30 minutes per game
4 players exceed 20 minutes
11 players exceed 13 minutes

Wisky

10 players average double digits (-)
3 players exceed 30 minutes per game
5 players exceed 20 minutes per game
8 players exceed 13 minutes per game.

fOSU
9 players average double digits
1 player exceeds 30 minutes per game
6 players exceed 20 minutes per game
8 players exceed 13 minutes per game


MSU
7 players average double digits
2 players exceed 30 minutes per game
6 players exceed 20 minutes per game
7 players exceed 13 minutes per game

Illinois
8 players average double digits
1 player exceeds 30 minutes per game
5 players exceed 20 minutes per game
6 players exceed 13 minutes per game


All of those coaches are wrong? We must have the deepest team ever known to D1 basketball? Our talent top to bottom is so good that our 11th man could be playing significant minutes on another roster?

Or the best yet:

We are going to win the Big10 because all of our opponents will be tired at the end of the year.

 

[clicheusername3]

Yeah, you're right bro. Apparently accurately depicting a tactic that is used by many of the top D1 coaches shows my ignorance for the game.

Iowa has 11 players averaging double digit minutes per game this year and only one player that exceeds 25 per game (Marble).

NO player exceeds 30 minutes per game.

Four players (Marble, White, Gesell, Uthoff) average > 20 minutes.

All 11 players that average double digit minutes exceed 13 per game.

Point? Do you really think that our 11th best player is as good as any of above him? Good enough to warrant logging that many mpg?

Compare that to a few of the 'elite' Big10 programs:

Iowa
11 players average double digits
0 players exceed 30 minutes per game
4 players exceed 20 minutes
11 players exceed 13 minutes

Wisky

10 players average double digits (-)
3 players exceed 30 minutes per game
5 players exceed 20 minutes per game
8 players exceed 13 minutes per game.

fOSU
9 players average double digits
1 player exceeds 30 minutes per game
6 players exceed 20 minutes per game
8 players exceed 13 minutes per game


MSU
7 players average double digits
2 players exceed 30 minutes per game
6 players exceed 20 minutes per game
7 players exceed 13 minutes per game

Illinois
8 players average double digits
1 player exceeds 30 minutes per game
5 players exceed 20 minutes per game
6 players exceed 13 minutes per game


All of those coaches are wrong? We must have the deepest team ever known to D1 basketball? Our talent top to bottom is so good that our 11th man could be playing significant minutes on another roster?

Or the best yet:

We are going to win the Big10 because all of our opponents will be tired at the end of the year.

Yes, this has been proven by the hundreds of forum posts and podcast minutes dedicated to the cult of our "depth". We're deep, so deep put dat azz to sleep.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Yeah, you're right bro. Apparently accurately depicting a tactic that is used by many of the top D1 coaches shows my ignorance for the game.

Iowa has 11 players averaging double digit minutes per game this year and only one player that exceeds 25 per game (Marble).

NO player exceeds 30 minutes per game.

Four players (Marble, White, Gesell, Uthoff) average > 20 minutes.

All 11 players that average double digit minutes exceed 13 per game.

Point? Do you really think that our 11th best player is as good as any of above him? Good enough to warrant logging that many mpg?

Compare that to a few of the 'elite' Big10 programs:

Iowa
11 players average double digits
0 players exceed 30 minutes per game
4 players exceed 20 minutes
11 players exceed 13 minutes

Wisky

10 players average double digits (-)
3 players exceed 30 minutes per game
5 players exceed 20 minutes per game
8 players exceed 13 minutes per game.

fOSU
9 players average double digits
1 player exceeds 30 minutes per game
6 players exceed 20 minutes per game
8 players exceed 13 minutes per game


MSU
7 players average double digits
2 players exceed 30 minutes per game
6 players exceed 20 minutes per game
7 players exceed 13 minutes per game

Illinois
8 players average double digits
1 player exceeds 30 minutes per game
5 players exceed 20 minutes per game
6 players exceed 13 minutes per game


All of those coaches are wrong? We must have the deepest team ever known to D1 basketball? Our talent top to bottom is so good that our 11th man could be playing significant minutes on another roster?

Or the best yet:

We are going to win the Big10 because all of our opponents will be tired at the end of the year.

I'm not your "bro" and you don't know beans about college basketball. Watch as many games as possible and read what the quality posters on here have to say about college basketball. Do this for a couple of years and then try posting again...maybe it won't be a waste of everyone's time.

By the way...your entire analysis is as flawed as you. I'm going to keep it short and simple in hopes that you understand or know someone that can explain it to you. Iowa's team has more quality depth than those other teams.

Side Note - Your posts are showing your ignorance for the game...to use your words in hopes that you will understand them.

 

[doclee]

I am so overwhelmed and confused by this series of posts that I just don't know what to think anymore. I guess I will just be comfortable with what Fran and the assistant coaches decide to do...

 

[hawkeye12345]

I'm not your "bro" and you don't know beans about college basketball. Watch as many games as possible and read what the quality posters on here have to say about college basketball. Do this for a couple of years and then try posting again...maybe it won't be a waste of everyone's time.

By the way...your entire analysis is as flawed as you. I'm going to keep it short and simple in hopes that you understand or know someone that can explain it to you. Iowa's team has more quality depth than those other teams.

Side Note - Your posts are showing your ignorance for the game...to use your words in hopes that your will understand them.

Wow. So your entire argument is based your notion that Zac McCabe is better than say Marc Loving a 4* recruit. Or that Oglewinkel is better than say Alvin Ellis? Right.

Keep up the excellent propaganda Mao....I'm sure at some point others may actually start to believe it.....

 

[hawkfan33]

I don't entirely disagree, I think there need to be significant changes to the rotation made if we want to finish near the top of the B10. Uthoff needs to get in there early and play more. If we're going to play 10-11 guys, then Fran needs to stop pulling Woody for the entire first half once he picks up his second foul. You're going to leave him on the bench most of the second half anyway, let him pick up his 3rd in the first half once in a while. We should never have Clemmons, Oglesby, McCabe and Olesani on the court together. We need more than one guy looking to score. Play White and Uthoff together without Marble more to force one of them to be more aggressive earlier.

 

[clicheusername3]

I'm not your "bro" and you don't know beans about college basketball. Watch as many games as possible and read what the quality posters on here have to say about college basketball. Do this for a couple of years and then try posting again...maybe it won't be a waste of everyone's time.

By the way...your entire analysis is as flawed as you. I'm going to keep it short and simple in hopes that you understand or know someone that can explain it to you. Iowa's team has more quality depth than those other teams.

Side Note - Your posts are showing your ignorance for the game...to use your words in hopes that your will understand them.

As the 2012 BBall Poaster of teh year I have to agree with all of this. What years did you win your awards Windsor? I forget.

 

[ibahawkeye]

Yeah, you're right bro. Apparently accurately depicting a tactic that is used by many of the top D1 coaches shows my ignorance for the game.

Iowa has 11 players averaging double digit minutes per game this year and only one player that exceeds 25 per game (Marble).

NO player exceeds 30 minutes per game.

Four players (Marble, White, Gesell, Uthoff) average > 20 minutes.

All 11 players that average double digit minutes exceed 13 per game.

Point? Do you really think that our 11th best player is as good as any of above him? Good enough to warrant logging that many mpg?

Compare that to a few of the 'elite' Big10 programs:

Iowa
11 players average double digits
0 players exceed 30 minutes per game
4 players exceed 20 minutes
11 players exceed 13 minutes

Wisky

10 players average double digits (-)
3 players exceed 30 minutes per game
5 players exceed 20 minutes per game
8 players exceed 13 minutes per game.

fOSU
9 players average double digits
1 player exceeds 30 minutes per game
6 players exceed 20 minutes per game
8 players exceed 13 minutes per game


MSU
7 players average double digits
2 players exceed 30 minutes per game
6 players exceed 20 minutes per game
7 players exceed 13 minutes per game

Illinois
8 players average double digits
1 player exceeds 30 minutes per game
5 players exceed 20 minutes per game
6 players exceed 13 minutes per game


All of those coaches are wrong? We must have the deepest team ever known to D1 basketball? Our talent top to bottom is so good that our 11th man could be playing significant minutes on another roster?

Or the best yet:

We are going to win the Big10 because all of our opponents will be tired at the end of the year.

Our scoring margin is +20 a game and our strength of schedule may be less than some of these schools.

I'm not against shortening the rotation but I'm not sure these numbers tell the whole story.

 

[DDThompson]

Excellent post and I agree 100% with your analogy but it doesn't necessarily refute the 7/8 man rotation.

True. It doesn't necessarily refute the 7/8-man rotation. It is some evidence that the 11-man rotation isn't the primary problem - not even in the 'big games'. (Iowa's mins are probably more skewed because of the numerous low-caliber OOC teams that got blown out allowing more minutes for the bench . . . ?)

I would agree, though, that a 11-man rotation is not the best situation.

Your Mins/Game is an interesting stat. It demonstrates that there is more than one way to skin a cat. But 22 hands on the cat is too much.

Fortunately, sports is still a meritocracy and not a democracy. I like having 10 players that can play but it looks like to me the mins/game still need some adjusting.

 

[DDThompson]

I don't entirely disagree, I think there need to be significant changes to the rotation made if we want to finish near the top of the B10. Uthoff needs to get in there early and play more. If we're going to play 10-11 guys, then Fran needs to stop pulling Woody for the entire first half once he picks up his second foul. You're going to leave him on the bench most of the second half anyway, let him pick up his 3rd in the first half once in a while. We should never have Clemmons, Oglesby, McCabe and Olesani on the court together. We need more than one guy looking to score. Play White and Uthoff together without Marble more to force one of them to be more aggressive earlier.

I think this is very good all the way through.

It could still be possible to play 9-10 players: but 9 &10 need minutes reduced.

I would guess he takes Woody out because if he picks up his 3rd foul in the first half he might not be as agressive in the second half.

 

[hawkeye12345]

fOSU has a +20.7 scoring margin, MSU has a +18.1, Wisky has a +14.6

Our SOS is #29, fOSU is 47, MSU is 40

 

[WindsorHawk]

I feel like it is being implied that the number of minutes in a game is being divided by 11 and everyone is getting equal time. This is not the case. Out of the 11 players in the rotation only 8 or 9 are likely to see significant action in any given game. It won't be the same 8 or 9 every game. Having the 11 player rotation allows for a great deal of flexibility on a game to game basis which is a good thing IMO.

 

[DDThompson]

I can see where you would think that's being implied. I'm not.

Like I said, I like having a 10-man rotation. The bench has brought a lot of energy into most of the games this year. Marble and White are going to get their 30/mins a game. Uthoff should be close to that, too. The scoring threats need to be on the floor 30/mins a game.

The other mins based on matchups and hot hands.

 

[hawkeye12345]

Current minutes per game:

Marble 26.9
White 24.9
Gesell 21.0
Uthoff 20.6
Basabe 18.3
Clemmons 17.4
McCabe 16.5
Woody 16.3
Olaseni 16.1
Oglewinkel 14
Jok 13.6

Woody and Olaseni total only 33 minutes combined. That leaves, on average, 7 game minutes that are played by someone other than a player taller than 6'10" at the C position. Unacceptable especially since Woody has fouled out of only 2 games this year and Gabe has none.

It should look closer to this (200 game minutes per game with +/- 5 for statistical variance):

Proposed minutes per game:

Marble 35
White 31
Gesell 30
Uthoff 31
Basabe 25
Clemmons 5
McCabe 6.5
Woody 18
Olaseni 18
Oglewinkel 3
Jok 2

 

[tm3308]

I say go with an 8-man rotation. Add McCabe to your 7-man list above. Zack provides some senior leadership, hits a high percentage of his FTs, and plays very, very hard. One of the better 3 point shooters (except lately).

I'd agree with this as the core rotation. I'm not ready to give up on JO, but Sapp is straight up too careless with the ball to involved right now and Jok isn't ready for major minutes.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Going to a 7 man rotation would be a mistake, in my opinion. Having 11 guys who are BIG level talented to chose from every night is amazing to have. If the players are willing (and this team appears to be) to learn their role, then having 11 potential players every night can be game changing. I am not sure why Iowa struggles against the good teams, like they have. Maybe they just need a killer instinct, or someone or something to play for. If they find that, guys, this team is legit enough to go 4 games deep into the NCAA BECAUSE of its depth. Right now, its all mental for this team, not physical, or team chemistry or cohesiveness (rotation). That's just my opinion.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

I'd agree with this as the core rotation. I'm not ready to give up on JO, but Sapp is straight up too careless with the ball to involved right now and Jok isn't ready for major minutes.

Didn't Sapp go through a little of this at the beginnin of last BIG season, also? I think he did. Maybe he's just one of those guys that, for whatever reason, starts slow at the beginning of conf play. But he sure has disappeared, recently. I think Iowa will definitely need him for 15 mins a game and 12 points/assists combined, throughout the BIG season.

 

[UIhawkeyes]

Olaseni, Basabe, Marble, Gesell, Uthoff, White, and Woody need to be dominating the minutes played in the box score.

McCabe, Oglesby, Jok, and Clemmons should be in the game only to rest the players above or provide depth in the event of foul trouble. Use them strategically during dead balls just prior to a TV timeout of just prior to half-time They remain in the game too long and add very little value unless one of the following happens for each player:

Oglewinkel - no game pressure to speak of and he can nail 3s with the best....any game pressure and he shoots like a pedestrian.

McCabe - need some energy and bruiser on the floor to provide that little spark. Outside of that he brings very little. He's too short to play the C and not gifted offensively enough to leave Uthoff, White, or Basabe on the bench.

Clemmons - for defensive purposes only. Should never be allowed to actually run the point on offensive sets...just give the damn ball to Dev and get out of the way.

Jok - get him experience at the B10 level each game but sparingly. He's clearly has the most talent of these four but he's not ready for primetime just yet. Get him in, let him work up a sweat and then get him out.

We got beat last night by a 6 1/2 man rotation. We clearly aren't wearing anybody out with our depth. The best players need to be on the floor the majority of the time even if they are having off or slightly off nights (see Sam Dekker for example).

It's hard to wear a team out when they are shooting 51 free throws on every ticky tack call...That game didn't go 3 possessions without a play stoppage.