We are brutally behind in BIG recruiting

[1977Hawkeye]

You can't blame two players falling short of expectations for setting a program back. Some recruits are underrated, and others are overrated, but at the end of the day, it's Fran's responsibility to either over-recruit said players, or develop the current ones.

Fran had two highly rated recruits fall into his lap early on in his tenure. Since then there hasn't been a lot of good talent in the state of Iowa. It's his responsibility to find players that are better than Gesell and Woody if they're not cutting it.

Either way, blaming those two for not living up to billing is stupid. You're only 1-2 players away from being really good. It's Fran's job to find those guys and land them.

I tend to agree here.. To me, it's fair to say that these two guys haven't turned out to be as good as advertised - i.e. 4* may have been overrated in their case, OR they haven't been developed as well as they should have been. So maybe they haven't helped the program progress as much as we thought/hoped, but they have done nothing to "set the program back" in any way. The program is no worse off WITH them than they were before they were on campus, I would think we all can agree on that.

If you want to look at things that set the program back, look at Steve Alford and Todd Lickliter. Especially the latter of the two.

We just need our coach to recruit better talent AND coach the team to play well as a unit. That's not on Gesell or Woody - they are trying to the best of their abilities.

I would also say that Fran himself has not set the program back either - it's just a question of whether he can take us as far as we want.

Guess that's basically how I see it.

 

[SnapBack2]

If the B1G has twenty-some 4* recruits then how many 4*s are there throughout the country, and how notable is it to be a 4* as compared to a 3* anyway? Don't think it's as notable to be a 4* in basketball as it is in football. And, anyway, didn't 247 upgrade Hutton to 4* status?

Yeah, basketball recruiting is different than football, not everyone gets that.

Hutton is a 4 star at 247. Last I saw he was ranked 114th overall.

 

[SnapBack2]

See, I never buy this. I agree in the short run, but to just throw our hands up in the air and say "those schools are better than us" seems like giving up.

I can't argue with you on this. I don't think you should give up, but just trying to be realistic. This is extreme, but will Iowa ever get a Kentucky type class? Well, of course not. The top 20 guys will always go to UK, KU, Duke, UNC.

If Fran/Iowa can put together a few years of top 4 in B1G and tourney runs, they would have a good argument to get top recruits to Iowa. Need to see results on the floor first if you want top recruiting classes.

 

[Sooby]

Still waiting for Woodbury to play to his recruiting potential.
Feels like another Lohaus and Jepsen, and, hopefully, will be much, much better his senior season.

Gasell has played to his potential, other than being a poor FT shooter and average FG shooter.
Confident in him handling the ball.

 

[PCHawk]

I tend to agree here.. To me, it's fair to say that these two guys haven't turned out to be as good as advertised - i.e. 4* may have been overrated in their case, OR they haven't been developed as well as they should have been. So maybe they haven't helped the program progress as much as we thought/hoped, but they have done nothing to "set the program back" in any way. The program is no worse off WITH them than they were before they were on campus, I would think we all can agree on that.

If you want to look at things that set the program back, look at Steve Alford and Todd Lickliter. Especially the latter of the two.

We just need our coach to recruit better talent AND coach the team to play well as a unit. That's not on Gesell or Woody - they are trying to the best of their abilities.

I would also say that Fran himself has not set the program back either - it's just a question of whether he can take us as far as we want.

Guess that's basically how I see it.

You're right that their development didn't set us back. It just set back the timeline for the program taking the next step.

It's kinda like the '05 football season. If that season would have went as planned, it could have propelled us to the next step. Looking back now, it's obvious that that season went like it did because of Kirk's coaching deficiencies. We don't know yet with Fran. If last season and the lack of development from Woody and Gesell ends up being because of Fran's coaching deficiencies, we will likely not reach the next step anyway. If they were a fluke, all it did was proling the inevitable that Fran will take us to the next step.

 

[deanvogs]

You're right that their development didn't set us back. It just set back the timeline for the program taking the next step.

It's kinda like the '05 football season. If that season would have went as planned, it could have propelled us to the next step. Looking back now, it's obvious that that season went like it did because of Kirk's coaching deficiencies. We don't know yet with Fran. If last season and the lack of development from Woody and Gesell ends up being because of Fran's coaching deficiencies, we will likely not reach the next step anyway. If they were a fluke, all it did was proling the inevitable that Fran will take us to the next step.

Sadly we do know I'm afraid. Everytime this program has had a chance to step up under Fran they have folded. Blowing the BTT game to MSU (yeah yeah blame the refs)...still you won't see a Izzo or Bo blow that game. Then last year down the stretch complete choke job, and then you top it off by blowing the lead to Tenn in the NCAA tournament.

I hope we can make the step up this year....big win at UNC, but spit the bit against Texas, 'Cuse, ISU, and UNI. Color me skeptical about Fran taking that step.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Any recruit that does not want to play for Iowa is foolish. When I was in high school I would have snatched up the scholarship offered in no time! Now the facilities are even better when they were back then. Nothing beats the atmosphere at an Iowa basketball game!

Any fan of any other major conference team thinks the same about their team.

See Wisconsin, Iowa State, Mich St,......... Hell, even thrown in there Nebby now! Unfortunately, the atmosphere at Iowa is rather benign compared to most around the country,IMO.

I don't like it, but, it is what it is.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Fran has gotten two 4* recruits in his first 5 years.. It's a start, but I'm not sure that's really enough to turn the proverbial corner..

Someone said that stars don't matter... I disagree. I would counter by asking what results the 2-3* recruits we've been typically getting the last 15 years or so have gotten us? One NCAA win since 1999, and none since 2001. Why are MORE 2-3* recruits going to change that? Sure, maybe Iowa can sneak into the Dance in the 8-10 seed range and win a game, but that's probably about the ceiling without better recruits.

The 2005-06 team that won 25 games - that team was starting three players that were 4* recruits: Brunner, Horner & Haluska. Too bad that team coughed up that first round game against NWST, but still, I'm not sure there's much debating that was the best Iowa team we've seen since Tom Davis was shown the door.

Iowa needs to be able to land more highly regarded recruits than it's been getting. There's a reason those players are ranked 2-3* rather than 4-5*.. There is bound to be some kind of hole in their game: Not athletic, undersized for the position, can't shoot, etc... Or any combination of those things. Some of those things can be fixed by coaching, some can't.

You know, the people that say stars don't count are typically fans of teams where the coaches don't typically pull in 4&5 star players. The truth is that these said fans would be doing back flips and trying to control the bulge in their Levi's if the coaches did pull them in. They wouldn't be saying 4&5 stars are overrated. It's different when you are the one on the other side. I know that!

 

[acgclone]

[/B]

Any fan of any other major conference team thinks the same about their team.

See Wisconsin, Iowa State, Mich St,......... Hell, even thrown in there Nebby now! Unfortunately, the atmosphere at Iowa is rather benign compared to most around the country,IMO.

I don't like it, but, it is what it is.

Frankly, I think basketball arena atmosphere is widely overrated for a reason for recruits to choose a team from what I've seen. There are plenty of examples of schools with really boring atmospheres, and even low turnout, yet schools continue to land great recruits.

Geography often trumps atmosphere from what I can tell. See Baylor, Texas and most schools south of the state of North Carolina (with exceptions for UK, Florida, Arkansas, etc) as an example.

 

[Tierney]

I'll wait to see them play on the Iowa basketball team before I say Iowa is brutally behind in BIG recruiting. These guys are still growing into their bodies and their games can change dramatically in a year. They seem to obviously possess the athletic ability to play at a high level in the conference. Hopefully, Iowa gets another quality recruit this spring. The Iowa defense should be legitimately better than this years team in a couple of years, and hopefully, the offense too. The incoming recruits are athletic and probably 6ft5 to 6ft8 by the time they get to Iowa and should be able to put a lot of pressure on opponents. They should be fun to watch.

 

[HawkeyeTech]

you won't see a Izzo or Bo blow that game.

So you're saying that if MSU had not been allowed to mug the Hawks and no whistles were blown against the Hawks MSU still would have won? I love you holier-than-thou "Don't blame the refs" types. Most of the time I don't blame the refs, but if you don't think Izzo's teams sometimes get a lot of breaks you're watching with blinders on. I'm the guy at football games where when everyone around me is booing a "bad" call, I'm trying to explain that the refs got it right. I am not a homer when it comes to officiating.

I don't think Bo or any other B1G coach get's a lot of breaks from the refs. Just Izzo.

 

[lightning1]

Illinois has been landing 4* recruits for as long as I can remember. In fact, they've landed 10 four* recruits in the past 4 years.
Illinois is 10-3 this season, NIT last year, 3rd round loss 2 years ago, no tourney 3 years ago, 3rd round loss 4 years ago.

Stars do not equal results.

fOSU is national powerhouse in sports
MSU is a national powerhouse in hoops
Indiana is Indiana
Let's just wait and see how Morrow turns out for Nebby and a 5'11" PG isn't exactly going to land on many teams even with a 4* ranking.
Minny - same thing, a 5'11" PG.
PSU doesn't have any 4* commits.
Rutgers getting Sanders was a head scratcher but with Mack leaving after this year the kid probably has a Woodbury contract.

PSU: Josh Reeves and Mike Watkins are both rated 4* by Scout. Tyler Ulis is a 5'9 PG. Andre Woolridge was listed as 6'1 but he wasn't as tall as I was and I'm 6'0.

 

[lightning1]

You guys can believe what you want to believe but stars do matter in basketball. They don'y always tell the tale about every player but they genuinely do equate to results on the court. In Fran's 5th year he has signed exactly 2, 4* commits (Woodbury and Gesell) out of 16 signees. he has 1 NCAA tournament to show for it and I highly doubt we will get there again this year.

 

[hawkforlife9]

But we were apparently close with T Ullis.

 

[PCHawk]

So you're saying that if MSU had not been allowed to mug the Hawks and no whistles were blown against the Hawks MSU still would have won? I love you holier-than-thou "Don't blame the refs" types. Most of the time I don't blame the refs, but if you don't think Izzo's teams sometimes get a lot of breaks you're watching with blinders on. I'm the guy at football games where when everyone around me is booing a "bad" call, I'm trying to explain that the refs got it right. I am not a homer when it comes to officiating.

I don't think Bo or any other B1G coach get's a lot of breaks from the refs. Just Izzo.

I also don't think you can sight a game where you lost to a team better than you as a choke job.

 

[RocknRollface]

Very astute observation about Woodbury and Gesell falling way short of expectations and setting the program back years because of it. I had honestly never looked at it in that that light. Good post.

I guess you're being sarcastic, not sure why you would think such a response applies though.

But that's about what this situation boils down to.

It's not just them, but Iowa needed to get over a hump last year, should have easily, but for some reason failed.

If you don't get over a hump you go backwards and that's what's happening.

 

[deanvogs]

I also don't think you can sight a game where you lost to a team better than you as a choke job.

I didn't say the MSU game was a choke job....I said last season was a choke job, I said Iowa BLEW the MSU game, which they did. When you lead MSU like Iowa did, and then you let them go on a 22-2 run (which is actually the norm under Fran, going on long scoring draughts, and letting the opponent kill you during those scoring draughts)........that is BLOWING THE GAME. Which is what I said.

 

[SnapBack2]

You guys can believe what you want to believe but stars do matter in basketball. They don'y always tell the tale about every player but they genuinely do equate to results on the court. In Fran's 5th year he has signed exactly 2, 4* commits (Woodbury and Gesell) out of 16 signees. he has 1 NCAA tournament to show for it and I highly doubt we will get there again this year.

Hutton is a 4 star

 

[SnapBack2]

I didn't say the MSU game was a choke job....I said last season was a choke job, I said Iowa BLEW the MSU game, which they did. When you lead MSU like Iowa did, and then you let them go on a 22-2 run (which is actually the norm under Fran, going on long scoring draughts, and letting the opponent kill you during those scoring draughts)........that is BLOWING THE GAME. Which is what I said.

But if you don't think the officials assisted with this, then the B1G disagrees with you. Why do you think TV Teddy didn't officiate a single Iowa game last year? I was at this game with some MSU buddies, they were laughing the whole time because of how bad the officiating was.

[video=youtube;LzCSy9jAxQ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzCSy9jAxQ4[/video]

 

[deanvogs]

But if you don't think the officials assisted with this, then the B1G disagrees with you. Why do you think TV Teddy didn't officiate a single Iowa game last year? I was at this game with some MSU buddies, they were laughing the whole time because of how bad the officiating was.

[video=youtube;LzCSy9jAxQ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzCSy9jAxQ4[/video]

I was as pizzed as anyone about the officiating in that game......yet that isn't the only reason MSU went on a 22-2 run. Lets face it, Fran doesn't get calls, cause he doesn't know how to work a ref. Having a melt down isn't working the refs. Bo, Izzo, Matta all know how to work the refs to the teams benefit......Fran, not so much.

I have given Fran the benefit of the doubt, and made excused for him for 4 years now. I'm personally done with that, but I see others are not. I think in year 5 the program and where it is at is on FRAN, he is the head man. This gives me no pleasure, I want Fran to succeed. I hope I am dead wrong on this, but I just don't see this happening at this point. I don't see this team as a NCAA team, and next year won't be any better. Like I said hopefully I'm wrong and we take it to OSU today, and end up making the NCAA.