Watch: Patrick McCaffery, D.J. Carton Face Off at Sharp Shootout

[HawkGold]

Does this kid have a name?

Yes. Romine.

I was at a game he was at and talking to an Iowa coach. There were a number of Big coaches at that game. Being nosey, I asked the parent. I saw him move out on a turnover and on the fly turn completely around and without breaking stride tomahawk the ball in the ball in the basket. That was at Mackey. Some had him 3 star and others NR. I did find out he was still 16 starting his senior year. No idea why Iowa quit recruiting him. He played a lot like Pem in HS video with more athleticism and against better competition. He held his own against Bates Diopp in HS though Diopp was nearly 2 years older.

Regardless it's about development. PM is a project. Projects generally haven't worked out that well, but some have (though maybe it was talent in the first place). What is unique is the guy who will be developing him is his dad.

PM is definitely worth having on the team. Would he be Big w/o his gene credentials? Probably not. We'll have to see.

He does do things many who end up on teams can't do. He also is missing a number of things.

Like Ringo Starr above, I have concerns about his fundamentals coach.

 

[Tierney]

Thanks, tksirius. 2 rebounds!? Yeah, that's pretty sad for a player of his height. I'm hoping he can gain some muscle and work on improving some of his areas of weakness.

A lot of these guys try to do to much. I'm sure if he would work on rebounding he could do a lot better. I think that might be one of the problems Cook has. He tries to do to much, but would be a lot better off if he would work on his defense and rebounding. Tyler Cook is going to get his points.

 

[RobHowe]

Patrick was gassed. He'd basically been on the road for about a month playing basketball all day, every day.

Even so, he still was able to pull West back within striking distance late in this game by taking over on offense and blocking or altering a few shots. West graduated the team's other four starters from last season and none of the guys playing on Saturday had significant varsity experience.

Patrick is a Big Ten level player.

 

[NikeHawk21]

My argument at that time was you don't know. And it's still my argument. So, nothing has changed in that regards. (it was me that put ya on some blast, but it wasn't malicious) That is NOT focused at JUST you, it would be to anyone who tries to sound like they can predict the future of a kid that age. You haven't watched all the kids to be able to say that definitively. As far as I can see 247 still has him at 46 and Rivals at 34. ESPN at 50. You're entitled to your opinion and I appreciate that you share it. But with those current ranking #'s - (all within 20 or fewer spots of top 30), I don't know that you should soap box on being "right". If he doesn't pan out to be good, we'll know you were right in line. But, again, maybe he's dropped back to the pack because he committed to Iowa like Connor did. Maybe that worked against him. Just as plausible at the "he's only ranked that high because his dad is White Magic" -

It wasn’t you specifically I rember debating with, I remember posters saying trust this ranking, those people are paid to do it.

I don’t feel Connor’s ranking fell because he committed to Iowa, Joe’s didn’t much at all. Connor’s rankings fell because kids matured and passed him by and he wasn’t even dominating at the Iowa HS level. I still think his final ranking near 125 was probably high, but of course I said he’s a mid major type player (topic for another time). It will all play out in front of our eyes the next few years.

To be clear I don’t think Pat won’t be good, I think he can be and has the potential, I just have maintained he wasn’t top 30 level, certainly not yet. (The ranking we are referring to is the 247 composite, where he is at 78).

 

[NikeHawk21]

Patrick is a Big Ten level player.

Is Connor?

 

[RobHowe]

Is Connor?

I think so.

Not everybody can be a star and I think he can fill a role on this team and for this program.

He handles the ball well, sees the floor well, passes well and understands the game, particularly his father's system. He certainly has some limitations, such as defending quick guards and consistently hitting open jumpers. We'll see how much he can improve in those areas. That will determine how much he can contribute.

 

[tksirius]

Is Connor?

Connor is more of a B1G player than Pat, IMO.

 

[lightning1]

I watched Carton play Wieskamp as a Sophomore and he did little to stand out, I never would have guessed Bettendorf had a D1 player on the team let alone a consensus 5*. He's put a lot of work into his game, and as good as he is he clearly understands the game and plays under control which is rare for someone with that amount of talent.

As much potential as PM has it's not hard to see why he fell out of the top 30 and 247 now has him 78th. He runs well for someone 6'8 but he lacks strength to finish inside (even against HS kids) and when he penetrates he often just throws the ball up without displaying any sort of touch. He's going to have to live in the weight room and even then his 6'6 wingspan is going to limit PM from playing up to his 6'8 size.

I think the 6'6 wingspan is a typo/mistake. I've been around him enough to believe he has longer arms than that. My 15 yr old is 6'4 with a 6'6 1/2" wingspan and I'd bet money that PMac's wingspan is longer.

 

[lightning1]

Funny how that works. At the time I didn’t know anything because I wasn’t an expert who got paid to do this like the scouting services. Now that the scouting services more align with my thoughts apparently nobody knows. (That may not have been your argument but was what I was getting at the time).

I think Pat can be a solid P5 player, I just think he has a way to go. At the end of the day I’m glad he got invited to these camps and had the chance to compete against these top players, regardless of if he really deserved it or not.

I think PMac's height/skills at his age, when he was pegged as a top 30 player, was realistic. It was a projection based on the expectation that he would fill out like an average kid and nothing more. He just never filled out his frame. That might be due to the cancer or it might just be his natural build. I think he'll be limited as a BIG player until he adds about 40 or 50 lbs of muscle. That could happen quickly, if the cancer is the cause. It could take 2 or 3 years if it isn't. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

I think the 6'6 wingspan is a typo/mistake. I've been around him enough to believe he has longer arms than that. My 15 yr old is 6'4 with a 6'6 1/2" wingspan and I'd bet money that PMac's wingspan is longer.

PM would be closer to 12'6" than 6'6" wingspan. the dude is like extendo-man.

 

[dahlhawk]

One thing that really stood out to me is how bad Patrick's defense was and his inability to rebound for his height. His offense wasn't too bad though. His free throw shooting was stellar, obviously.

PMac:

Pts: 27
Rbd: 2
Assists: 1
Turnovers: 2
Steals: 0
Blocks: 3
Fouls: 4
FG: 5 for 13 (38.4%)
3PT: 2 for 5 (40%)
FT: 11 for 12 (91.6%)

DJ:

Pts: 23
Rbd: 2
Assists: 2
Turnovers: 3
Steals: 3
Blocks: 1
Fouls: 3
FG: 10 for 13 (76.9%) Literally all layups and one dunk.
3PT: 0 for 3
FT: 3 for 5 (60%)

And yes . Thought I was watching Iowa defense, Patrick came late on defensive rotations, didn't block out, had smaller guys (DJ) blow past him, and shorter guys posted him. Too many awkward shots, no post game. DJ looked every bit the 5 star. Made his team better. PMac had one stretch where he scored cconsecutive baskets a 3 and a jumper but gave it back on defense. Hopefully PMac can make the same jump that DJ has made. If he can't dominate at this level kinda a stretch he'll do it in college.

 

[BGOLD]

I think the 6'6 wingspan is a typo/mistake. I've been around him enough to believe he has longer arms than that. My 15 yr old is 6'4 with a 6'6 1/2" wingspan and I'd bet money that PMac's wingspan is longer.

Hope you're right about that, he'd be better off being 6'6 with a 6'8 wingspan than 6'8 with a 6'6 wingspan.

 

[tweeterhawk]

That's the advantage of your Dad being a coach, you develop good fundamentals early on.

Nice.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

It's a poor angle, but this video shows why highlight films are basically worthless. One needs to see the whole court and how the player is across a whole game and in relationship to the court and teams.

PM has to have a major overhaul of his game to play the way he currently does. He brings the ball down too low. He dribbles too high and too much.

On the positive he is tall and has some athleticism. Lot's of potential.

If he was a graduating 17 yo senior I would be more positive. I do believe he is older. If he dad hasn't developed certain things in him now, how will that change?

At the risk of getting pummeled he does have a taller version Little Lick feel to him. John had great court awareness and actually some pretty good skills. He game wasn't complete for a number of reasons including size. PM has some good skills and some glaring missing skills. If he was a guard and like this, no way. Being a bigger guy changes things to some degree. There is some possibility. He can do some things Woodbury and other big guys can't. He can't do some things they can.

As freshmen, who would you take in 1 on 1. Cook or PM?

Jon Lickliter looked like I would have looked had I played in a Div 1 basketball game. No shit. Kind of same body style. He was a fish out of water and clearly lacked the athleticism needed at that level. Yes, he seemed to understand the X's and O's but that is only half of it at that level.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

This may be heresy to some, but I don't get all the accolades for Patrick. I've seen him play in person and on video. He's a nice player, don't get me wrong, but I don't leave thinking I've just watched one of the best players in the country. I hope I'm wrong about this, because he's going to be a Hawkeye. I haven't watched enough of Carton to form any opinion on him.

When I watched the state championship game last year, I thought he just looks like a good player on that HS team. Certainly wasn't dominating and really does have kind of a funky shot/release.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

You got blasted because you don't know that- and you still don't. Either do the experts. It's not a perfect science and recruiting rankings are often times based on "potential" more then anything. He could pan out and be All American. He could end up being the next Seth Gorney. We don't know, but now you're acting like 1 bad tape solidifies your theory. I'm guessing you haven't watch all Top 100 recruits to say that others are feeling overlooked either. I'm not saying your wrong, and I think you're entitled to your opinion. Just that only time is gonna tell and you aren't suddenly "right" about Patrick. In fact, his sudden drop has come after committing to Iowa - which a case could be made that's hurt him as much as anything in the recruiting rankings vs him getting ranked highly because of who his dad is.

I ask you. If Patrick's last name wasn't McCaffery and was just a regular Joe Blow player on a HS team, do you think Fran would be recruiting him? Same skill set that he currently has. I think there is a good chance that answer is no.

 

[InGoodCo]

I ask you. If Patrick's last name wasn't McCaffery and was just a regular Joe Blow player on a HS team, do you think Fran would be recruiting him? Same skill set that he currently has. I think there is a good chance that answer is no.

The answer is yes. A 4 star in state talent that was just invited to the 18U USA basketball camp name Jeff Smith? Fran better be recruiting that kid, hard.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I think so.

Not everybody can be a star and I think he can fill a role on this team and for this program.

He handles the ball well, sees the floor well, passes well and understands the game, particularly his father's system. He certainly has some limitations, such as defending quick guards and consistently hitting open jumpers. We'll see how much he can improve in those areas. That will determine how much he can contribute.

This is why Rob gets paid the BIG BUCKS $$$$$!

Objective and keeping it real. I've always thought the point guards two main must have's are taking care of the ball and managing the offense/distributing the ball. Points are a bonus.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I think PMac's height/skills at his age, when he was pegged as a top 30 player, was realistic. It was a projection based on the expectation that he would fill out like an average kid and nothing more. He just never filled out his frame. That might be due to the cancer or it might just be his natural build. I think he'll be limited as a BIG player until he adds about 40 or 50 lbs of muscle. That could happen quickly, if the cancer is the cause. It could take 2 or 3 years if it isn't. That's how I see it anyway.

You bring up a valid point about his thyroid. It is not so much the cancer as that is cured at this point, but the thyroid has a systemic affect on the body and is so important in development. I wonder if the treatment and messed up thyroid function at that point in his life could have contributed to his obvious battle to increase or keep on weight. Obviously, the physician's would place him on a thyroid supplement after the thyroid was resected or ablated, but one does wonder about the timing of that all.

I do know that they constantly monitor his thyroid function and adjust medication accordingly.

 

[thedukeofearl]

I think so.

Not everybody can be a star and I think he can fill a role on this team and for this program.

He handles the ball well, sees the floor well, passes well and understands the game, particularly his father's system. He certainly has some limitations, such as defending quick guards and consistently hitting open jumpers. We'll see how much he can improve in those areas. That will determine how much he can contribute.

Exactly.....