U of Iowa Refuses to Schedule North Dakota

[HawkeyesWin]

I don't believe for a second that native Americans are hyper sensitive

I do. That is the crux of our disagreement.

 

[DuffMan]

I do. That is the crux of our disagreement.

What on earth gives you the right to determine if someone else is being "hyper-sensitive"?

If someone out in the world calls me a nig ger I'm not personally going to be offended as I don't feel personally degraded by that word, my brother in law who might be standing next to me and is black is likely to have a completely different view on that. What gives me the right to determine for him what is reasonable and what is hypersensitive for him?

 

[DuffMan]

If you do not like the mascot then don't root for the team. The only reason why this is a big deal is because a small group of people make it one. These mascots are good reminders of our past whether you were a Sooner, Indian, 49er, Viking ect ect. The people that complain about these mascot names are never fans of that team and rarely do they even care about sports. People find stuff like this they can make a stand against and then they get on their soapbox and get others to agree with them, that's how stuff like this starts. If you do not like the Fighting Sioux name, or offended by it, then do not attend that school and do not root for their teams, but leave those people/fans alone. Why force your values/principals on everyone else?

See that's the thing, we aren't talking about cause heads who are making an issue out of this. It's actual Native Americans who are residents of ND that are making an issue. ND is a state college, and something that every person in the state of ND supports whether they want to or not. In essence they are being forced to support a symbol that to them is offensive to their very being.

The analogy of the mascot in black face is very much spot on. If some school in the south named thier school "The Fighting Negros" and created a mascot as a runaway slave fighting for his freedom, you would probably see some backlash. That's almost 100% identical to what is going on in ND.

 

[HawkeyesWin]

Duff

Its apples and oranges. I cant think of a situation where the n-word would be intended to signify pride.

Why wouldn't i have a right to believe someone is being hyper-sensitive?

 

[DuffMan]

Duff

Its apples and oranges. I cant think of a situation where the n-word would be intended to signify pride.

Why wouldn't i have a right to believe someone is being hyper-sensitive?

It's not apples to oranges.

The word "negro" is very much on par with some of the words tied to native american mascots. There is very little difference between the "Sigorney Savages" (real) and the "Newton Negros" (fictional). There is little difference between the "ND Fighting Sioux" (real) and the "Savanna State Fighting Slaves" (fictional).

The only difference is YOU have decided that Native Amercians offended by the former are just being "hyper-sensitive" and that black people offended about the latter are somehow justified.

 

[ssckelley]

See that's the thing, we aren't talking about cause heads who are making an issue out of this. It's actual Native Americans who are residents of ND that are making an issue. ND is a state college, and something that every person in the state of ND supports whether they want to or not. In essence they are being forced to support a symbol that to them is offensive to their very being.

Then let the people that live in North Dakota hammer it out. The Indians that live there have a voice and can vote just like any other American. If the majority feel the same way then I am sure they can get it changed.

Perhaps I am offended by the Cyclones, maybe I had a friend or family member die in one. Just because I have an issue with it does not mean the majority feel the same way. If it bothers me bad enough then I can chose not to root for the team or send my kids to school there, I have other options. I realize this analogy is not exactly the same but my point is there can be things that happens within our government, public schools, ect ect that I may take offense to and the beauty of democracy is if enough people feel the same way I do then we can get it changed. But if not, and I am in the minority, then I need to make other choices.

The analogy of the mascot in black face is very much spot on. If some school in the south named thier school "The Fighting Negros" and created a mascot as a runaway slave fighting for his freedom, you would probably see some backlash. That's almost 100% identical to what is going on in ND.

No, that mascot would not go over very well but I bet enough people would take a stand against it to keep a mascot like that from being named. It would be tough to take any mascot, associate it with the negro race, and put a positive spin on it.

I am personally part indian and I would wager not all Indians in North Dakota are offended by the mascot. Personally I think it is an awesome mascot to have and it brings honor to indians and helps us all remember them. Yeah there are some pretty bad things that happened but bad things have happened in all the races and we only have to go back as far as the civil war to read about some bad things that happened within our own country, to each other. I have had ancestors die in the civil war fighting for the northern efforts but I do not feel a need for UNLV to change their mascot over it or any other school that uses civil war terms for the name of their mascot. But if you force North Dakota to change their Fighting Sioux mascot then UNLV should be forced to change their Rebel mascot. When does animal rights activist put a stop to animals being used as mascots? At what point do put an end to this PC crap? You want freedom of choices & speech or do you want rules and regulations that tell you what to think, say, do, ect ect just so we are all "politically correct"?

Got a ticket to the game on Saturday? If not perhaps you can scalp one from one of those scalpers in front of CHA, but jew them down first.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

Then let the people that live in North Dakota hammer it out. The Indians that live there have a voice and can vote just like any other American. If the majority feel the same way then I am sure they can get it changed.

Perhaps I am offended by the Cyclones, maybe I had a friend or family member die in one. Just because I have an issue with it does not mean the majority feel the same way. If it bothers me bad enough then I can chose not to root for the team or send my kids to school there, I have other options. I realize this analogy is not exactly the same but my point is there can be things that happens within our government, public schools, ect ect that I may take offense to and the beauty of democracy is if enough people feel the same way I do then we can get it changed. But if not, and I am in the minority, then I need to make other choices.



No, that mascot would not go over very well but I bet enough people would take a stand against it to keep a mascot like that from being named. It would be tough to take any mascot, associate it with the negro race, and put a positive spin on it.

I am personally part indian and I would wager not all Indians in North Dakota are offended by the mascot. Personally I think it is an awesome mascot to have and it brings honor to indians and helps us all remember them. Yeah there are some pretty bad things that happened but bad things have happened in all the races and we only have to go back as far as the civil war to read about some bad things that happened within our own country, to each other. I have had ancestors die in the civil war fighting for the northern efforts but I do not feel a need for UNLV to change their mascot over it or any other school that uses civil war terms for the name of their mascot. But if you force North Dakota to change their Fighting Sioux mascot then UNLV should be forced to change their Rebel mascot. When does animal rights activist put a stop to animals being used as mascots? At what point do put an end to this PC crap? You want freedom of choices & speech or do you want rules and regulations that tell you what to think, say, do, ect ect just so we are all "politically correct"?

Got a ticket to the game on Saturday? If not perhaps you can scalp one from one of those scalpers in front of CHA, but jew them down first.

Kind of like how we should have just let the folks down in Arkansas hammer it out on whether black kids should be allowed to go to school with white kids?

In addition, I think we're all smart enough to figure out the differences in the situation of Native American mascots vs. Vikings/Rebels mascots.

Native Americans are an actual group of people living on sovereign territory today within the United States, with ongoing legal battles in many states over land, rights and treaties. Kind of a big difference.

No matter where you fall on the issue, let's at least recognize the facts.

 

[ssckelley]

Kind of like how we should have just let the folks down in Arkansas hammer it out on whether black kids should be allowed to go to school with white kids?

Completely different, now you are talking about human rights instead of PC.

In addition, I think we're all smart enough to figure out the differences in the situation of Native American mascots vs. Vikings/Rebels mascots.

Native Americans are an actual group of people living on sovereign territory today within the United States, with ongoing legal battles in many states over land, rights and treaties. Kind of a big difference.

No matter where you fall on the issue, let's at least recognize the facts.

That is a legal battle, what we are discussing here is political correctness (ie PC). It is not like North Dakota is using a picture of an indian lawyer as a Fighting Sioux.

Since you say that this issue extends beyond the North Dakota borders, what exactly are you expecting to see happen? If it is a new federal law and once they ban the use of Indian mascots what do these activist go after next? Perhaps the Federal government will cave in to the animal rights activists and ban using animal names as mascots. I am sure people find the mascot Gamecocks extremely offensive.

Lastly, once this happens then what should we name our state and what should the universities new mascot be? Most know that our state is named after the Ioway indians, but our mascot Hawkeye is a character out of the Last of the Mohican (sp?) novel.

You see where I am getting at? Where do you draw the line? We live in a democratic society and each time you regulate stuff like that you take away a little bit more freedom. Soon our government will tell us what we should be saying, thinking, doing ect ect.

 

[HomerChampless]

The reason why, IMO, the Iowa Athetic Department might be bummed is because of the potential of a name change forced by PCs because Iowa's name came from a minority.

Now if Iowa had, instead, been named Farmland.... or Crackerland...

 

[HomerChampless]

If G. A. Custer were alive, I'd bet he'd say the Sioux were a fighting bunch - and he'd be begrudgingly complimentary.

 

[DuffMan]

If G. A. Custer were alive, I'd bet he'd say the Sioux were a fighting bunch - and he'd be begrudgingly complimentary.

You clearly know very little about Custer.

 

[ssckelley]

I am sure Custer would not have any nice things to say about indians.

 

[papathawki]

Simple people have a hard time with complex issues. This is a complex issue. Some schools have strong connections with some tribes. This is the case with FSU, who have the endorsement of both the Florida and Oklahoma Seminole Nations for use of their likeness.

This is also the case with Central Michigan and the Chippewa tribe.

Basically it comes down to a tribe or people having rights over use of their likeness or cultural identity, which also means the right to use this for financial profit. Yunno, like Iowa's claim against Southern Miss with the Tiger Hawk / Golden Eagle issue?

The culturally offensive part is about a group of individuals in power co-opting the cultural likeness of a less powerful group without the endorsement of that group. Yunno, kind of like when these groups were forced off their land without permission?

So what's the problem with the Sioux? Well the different factions of the Sioux have not come to an agreement about endorsing the use of their likeness. They have rights over that likeness, just like Iowa has rights over the Tiger Hawk.

But I am sure I lost some of you after "simple."

Good post.