Turner going all Harlem Globetrotter on Lil Lick

GhostofBTT said:
My advice is to let it go.

Why? For one, I doubt anyone believes you were a good baseball player in HS, and if they do believe you, I seriously doubt anyone cares. And two, being able to accurately quote your statistics from high school makes you sound like a loser who is hung up on the past, even when everyone else has forgotten about HS.

I mean honestly, is there anyone over the age of 19 in this country who still cares about high school?
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For your information jacka**, I am 19 years old.
 
hoffahawk said:
I see your point but do you really think the casual fan that doesn't even watch games anymore really follows the box scores close enough to see how much playing time Lil Lick is getting?

Hell I know die hard fans that wouldn't remember that John played over 20 minutes vs. Mich.

Like you said if they were winning it wouldn't matter which I think only proves the point it's one more thing for people to ***** about since the team isn't winning.
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For me it wasn't just the playing time. I would have likely been one of those fans that glossed over it. It was the combination of the Michigan debacle and the comments coach made following that game about John's playing time. It really made for a head scratcher.

Anyhow, my main point was, in my opinion, coaches are accountable (or should feel) accountable to fans. I think this is particuallry true when a team is losing and struggling to keep the support of it's fan base.
 
tm3308 said:
For your information jacka**, I am 19 years old.
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In that case, it is Mr. Ghost to you. A piece of advice, when dealing with a group of older, smarter men, it is better to listen than to talk, because you learn in the former, but get stupider in the latter.
 
GhostofBTT said:
In that case, it is Mr. Ghost to you. A piece of advice, when dealing with a group of older, smarter men, it is better to listen than to talk, because you learn in the former, but get stupider in the latter.
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If actually having faith in Lickliter and this team makes me stupid, then so be it. I'd rather believe that things are going to get better (especially when the team has a lot of promise) than sit around and just bash them all the time. I have little patience for fair-weather fans, and that's what a large portion of our fan base consists of.

And if I had always listened to and learned from "older, smarter men" going into last football season, I'd have been one of the many calling for Ferentz and Norm Parker to be fired. Guess that makes me stupid for not listening to them. But, seeing as how I was right about that, I'll take being stupid over joining the crowd.
 
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GhostofBTT said:
What the hell are you talking about?

This is what happens when you don't take advice from smarter people.
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I seem to remember quite a few people wanting Ferentz fired after the 2007 season went sour and we started 2008 3-3. Again, I'm glad I wasn't among those who seemed to think that it would have been a good idea. The majority is not always right, so excuse me for not wanting to be negative ALL THE TIME just because it's the popular thing to do right now.
 
tm3308 said:
I seem to remember quite a few people wanting Ferentz fired after the 2007 season went sour and we started 2008 3-3. Again, I'm glad I wasn't among those who seemed to think that it would have been a good idea. The majority is not always right, so excuse me for not wanting to be negative ALL THE TIME just because it's the popular thing to do right now.
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When did the argument change from John Lickliter and you being a great student section captain, to people wanting Ferentz fired?

Like ghost said, what in gods name are you talking about?
 
tm3308 said:
I seem to remember quite a few people wanting Ferentz fired after the 2007 season went sour and we started 2008 3-3. Again, I'm glad I wasn't among those who seemed to think that it would have been a good idea. The majority is not always right, so excuse me for not wanting to be negative ALL THE TIME just because it's the popular thing to do right now.
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Or at least get your coaches in order. Most people that wanted to see a change in the football team (me included) wanted a new OC, not a new head coach.
 
iowahawkeyes89 said:
When did the argument change from John Lickliter and you being a great student section captain, to people wanting Ferentz fired?

Like ghost said, what in gods name are you talking about?
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He told me that I should just listen to "older, smarter men", rather than give my own opinion. Well there were a lot of supposedly "older, smarter men" saying we needed to can Ferentz a couple years ago. I chose to believe those people were idiots, and I was right. But had I taken the approach that Ghost thinks I should, then I would have been an idiot wanting to fire Ferentz right along with the rest of them.
 
hawkeye12345 said:
Or at least get your coaches in order. Most people that wanted to see a change in the football team (me included) wanted a new OC, not a new head coach.
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People still want O'Keefe out. That never changes, whether we're good or bad. But in '05-07, KOK was far from the only one getting heat from fans.
 
tm3308 said:
He told me that I should just listen to "older, smarter men", rather than give my own opinion. Well there were a lot of supposedly "older, smarter men" saying we needed to can Ferentz a couple years ago. I chose to believe those people were idiots, and I was right. But had I taken the approach that Ghost thinks I should, then I would have been an idiot wanting to fire Ferentz right along with the rest of them.
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I was just trying to be nice and tell you to stop saying stupid things. Then you went ahead and kept saying stupid things anyways. Can't say I didn't warn you.
 
tm3308 said:
He told me that I should just listen to "older, smarter men", rather than give my own opinion. Well there were a lot of supposedly "older, smarter men" saying we needed to can Ferentz a couple years ago. I chose to believe those people were idiots, and I was right. But had I taken the approach that Ghost thinks I should, then I would have been an idiot wanting to fire Ferentz right along with the rest of them.
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Right...but I'm sure there were plenty of 19 year old idiots running around saying the same thing, in probably a less intelligent way too.

Evaluating that time period, people had a right to question whether or not changes to the staff were needed, nobody is an idiot for that. Its a results driven world we live in and things weren't going well so people were going to question it.

You can pat yourself on the back all you want, but people weren't crazy for suggesting some kind of changes might happen. Whether it be KOK or KF.
 
iowahawkeyes89 said:
Right...but I'm sure there were plenty of 19 year old idiots running around saying the same thing, in probably a less intelligent way too.

Evaluating that time period, people had a right to question whether or not changes to the staff were needed, nobody is an idiot for that. Its a results driven world we live in and things weren't going well so people were going to question it.

You can pat yourself on the back all you want, but people weren't crazy for suggesting some kind of changes might happen. Whether it be KOK or KF.
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Our fans want INSTANT gratifcation. They have no interest in the long run. And that's a big problem. Keeping Ferentz was better for us in the long run, and I think that giving Lickliter more time will be better for us in the long run as well. Firing him is only going to make things worse.

Anyone can get mad about losing and think that a coaching change is the answer. That's what every bandwagoner does (not saying you, specifically are, but that's what happens). But that's not always the best course of action, and I don't feel that it is in this case, nor was it for Ferentz. And by the way, a lot of the stuff going around back then wasn't "suggesting that changes might happen". It was more along the lines of the Lickliter bashing that's going on now, where people were DEMANDING changes.
 
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tm3308 said:
Our fans want INSTANT gratifcation. They have no interest in the long run. And that's a big problem. Keeping Ferentz was better for us in the long run, and I think that giving Lickliter more time will be better for us in the long run as well. Firing him is only going to make things worse.

Anyone can get mad about losing and think that a coaching change is the answer. That's what every bandwagoner does (not saying you, specifically are, but that's what happens). But that's not always the best course of action, and I don't feel that it is in this case, nor was it for Ferentz. And by the way, a lot of the stuff going around back then wasn't "suggesting that changes might happen". It was more along the lines of the Lickliter bashing that's going on now, where people were DEMANDING changes.
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Fans want results, the results weren't there in those years. Your making things bigger then they need to be, look around the country, every respectable program has random yahoos calling for firings when they don't win. Its a production driven business, and when you don't produce there are going to be doubters. If you don't like that, then I suggest you find a new hobby. Its the new culture of college sports, or really sports in general. Right or wrong, thats the way things are.

As far as Lickliter, with him its more of the fact that people don't even want to go to games. At least when Ferentz was around 500, people were still showing up to games.

At some point, Gary Barta might be forced to make a business decision, regarding Lickliter and the attendance.

I know I'll be ****** if they raise FB ticket prices because of the horrible basketball attendance. :rolleyes:
 
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