Try politico.
Trump supporters, how do you square this?
- Thread starter CP87
- Start date
Why ask to see evidence when you would obviously disregard any you saw?
Fryowa
Administrator
It's not prime location. What the hell are you talking about? It's on a beach so that's prime location?
They have no fresh water or means of producing it. It has to be bought from and piped in from Israel. No natural resources other than sand. It's bordered by two unfriendly countries (one very unfriendly), and a sea. They have no infrastructure or industry. At all. No free travel in or out.
Here again you're just saying, "Oh, it's on a coastline which is a good thing so it's prime real estate" and ignore the infinite other reasons why it sucks.
How are they going to rebuild everything? Ask Israel for help? Ask Iran for help? How are they going to get reliable fresh water? Truck it in for six million people? What are they going to use this coastline for that's so nice when they have no port or ships? Lol.
Yep, I said they want to be there because they do. But here's a news flash for you because you know nothing about the history of the area or the people in it...they want the whole thing. They want all of Israel. If you had read a history book or two you'd know that's their goal. For the reasons I mentioned above about not having a pot to piss in, and because they think their god gave it to them as a promised land. Not because it's an awesome place to live. Good lord man. Read a little.
Hay Man
Well-Known Member
That's painting with a very wide brush. Please give me the facts and I'll believe them.
Fryowa
Administrator
I know neither of you asked me, but Reuters is consistently rated as one of the most central news sources when it comes to bias. I tend to agree; I read a lot of articles there and in my opinion they do the best job of not trying to spin their news one way or the other.
This doesn't mean one has to agree with them, but the important thing is not trying to spin it the other way. News sources should (in my opinion) present you with fact-checkable information only, and then it's up to the individual to do his or her own research to determine whether it's valid and make their opinions from that. That's how "news" is supposed to work. Present information. Anything else isn't news, it's commentary.
Tell us what happened, who said what, and that's it.
Commentary absolutely has its place in media and the world itself (and should be protected vigorously), but it's when commentary presents itself as news by either slanting an article, leaving out pertinent information detrimental to their side of things, or outright telling you their opinions that you run into problems.
That's at the core of what's wrong with media. People consume Fox or CNN or Rogan or Maddow and call it "news." Those places aren't news, they're opinion-based commentary.
Hay Man
Well-Known Member
I don't watch any of FOX, CNN, MSNBC, because it's beyond one-sided information.
Tell us what happened, who said what, and that's it. That's exactly what I want and why I ask for facts. If given concrete evidence and not hearsay, then I'm on board with whatever argument is given.
I'm not blinded by one party or one person. Democrats need to get rid of a whole bunch of people in "leadership" within the ranks. Schumer, Pelosi and all the old rank and file. Nobody wants to listen to them. Republicans have Grassley, McConnell and a whole bunch more as well.
I want facts and build off of that.
Fryowa
Administrator
Take this article on Reuters for example about Trump's suggestion to take over Gaza...
It tells you what was said, what actions (if any) were taken, and doesn't give you a one-sided view of why it's a good or bad idea. No opinions insinuated either way.
If you look at the Fox articles they spin why it's a good idea, and CNN's spins why it's a bad idea. That's not good news.
I would rather read an article that presents facts and lets me make my own research and decisions. Just my two cents, not an attempt to get either of you to decide one way or the other.
This is so weird. I'm saying it's pretty much prime loacation for the context of the situation they are in and you are arguing its not prime location because of the situation they're in. Here's my question. If it's not prime location, then why the F would Trump want it? If it's just some barren land shit hole, there would be no reason to want it. You are trying to argue that the land itself isn't prime location by pointing out things that have nothing to do with the land itself.
Hay Man
Well-Known Member
That's what I'm talking about. They laid out Trump's plan and I love the fact that no US troops would be sent. Now do I agree with what's going on? No. Do I believe Trump's words? No
You know those indigenous people who throw spears at planes when they fly by. Imagine someone saying they have nice land. And then imagine someone saying no they don't. They don't have running water! Sure they live by the sea but they don't have ports! They are over populated! They fight amongst their neighbors! What the F does any of that have to do with how prime their land is?
Oh really. Kennedy gives lots of facts to back his claims. Do you believe them?
So the article I read the other day that I said was a hit piece about Musk and you ripped on me for, that's what it was doing. It was adding things like "his outlandish, baseless claim". When I read something like that, from either side, I completely dismiss the article. I'm guessing a lot of people read that and think "yep! I knew those claims were outlandish and baseless!".
Just out of curiosity, why would you list Rogan in that list? He isn't a news source. He's a dude who has conversations with guests. He's not even pretending or suggesting he's a news source.
Hay Man
Well-Known Member
Kennedy??? You want me to believe him??? What "facts" did he bring to the table on top of all of his conspiracy theories, heroin usage, brain worm, womanizing... Hard to really believe much out of him. I might as well listen to Joe Rogan's facts.
Why do you keep going back to these loonies??? It's a cult
Hay Man
Well-Known Member
Do you believe any of the facts that Dr. Fauci brought up? Probably not.
Fryowa
Administrator
I've never once in this enormous circus of a thread heard you accept a single thing that was critical of Elon Musk. You're hugely biased towards believing everything he says and supporting everything he does. Any article or medium that supports his position and actions you support, and every one that criticizes you say is a hit piece. That's severe bias and at that point we don't have any discussion really on Musk. It is what it is and that's ok.
Westernhawk
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the historical perspective you bring to these conversations.
Anyone who thinks the Israel/Palestine situation, which is very complex and very old, can be solved by evicting the Palestinians and turning the area into resorts or real estate is a complete fricking dolt.
If the US persists in this endeavor (which will be really loved by the super far right wing leader of Israel), there will be hell to pay.
Fryowa
Administrator
Because "prime" is a relative term of perception and everyone's perception is different.
And because we're talking about the land being "prime" with respect to the Palestinians. Not an Amazon tribe and not anyone else. Unless you're talking about kicking the Palestinians out, taking possession of the Gaza Strip for the US, and developing it for some other group. Which is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
With respect to the Palestinians, it is 100% not "prime" land at all. But that isn't why they want it. They claim divine rights to it and will die for it. That isn't going to change no matter where you round them all up and resettle them.
Fryowa
Administrator
Not being interested in, and not reading about history and Middle East geopolitics is totally fine. I'm not interested in collecting Beanie Babies so I don't learn about the topic or spend time on it.
But I also don't go on internet forums and argue about the topic and why this or that should happen because I know absolutely nothing about it.
The article, like Fry said, was great for just giving facts. It really allows for people to form an educated opinion. I want no part in the US forcing people to leave their land. I do like the idea of finding a new place and giving people the option tho. In a perfect world, that would be the best solution. In the imperfect world we live in, there are two sides who refuse to live next to each other. It's a situation where the weaker side refuses to stop until they destroy the stronger side. Throughout history, that situation ends with total inhalation. I suppose forcing them to leave is the better option. I just don't like the US being part of it. But again, somehow Israel has us by the balls.
Fryowa
Administrator
I love that option, but it's simply not going to happen. It isn't realistic.
All that will do is inflame the Arabs more against the Jews and cause more rocket strikes, and then more retaliation in return like has been going on for literally thousands of years.
All kicking the Palestinians out will do is inflame the Arab countries because it'd be a win for Israel. Those countries--no exceptions--believe that Israel (all of it, not just Gaza) belongs to the Palestinians. SA, Jordan, Iraq, Yemen, UAE, Iran, Turkey, Egypt, Syria, and Oman all believe that the state of Israel are invaders occupying their god-given land. Israel believes it is their god-given land. None of that will change no matter what Trump does.
As you mentioned, these things have started the same way for centuries...some kid throws a rock over a wall and hits a soldier, that soldier beats a kid up, the kid's family attacks the soldier, that soldier shoots someone, the other side throws a grenade, and then the rockets start flying and all hell breaks loose. It's the way that place is. That's somewhat metaphoric but no matter where it is in the Arabian peninsula, if you kick either side out there's going to be more war. There's no peace in that region and it's a pipe dream that the US isn't going to realize just by moving them out and trying to make the area neutral.
Why do you think Great Britain was so eager to get rid of British Palestine and give it to the Jews? It wasn't to be nice, it was because that place is a disaster of a war zone that they couldn't control anyway.
We need to stay out of it because neither side shows reason.
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