Toussaint / Fredrick Backcourt

InGoodCo said:
Yep I agree, I just think he can be fed or continue to be a play maker with the ball in his hands and Connor getting minutes has nothing to do with it. They both start. I think that's just a mind set that's hard for Iowa fans to shake because we all believed Connor was going to be Iowa's PG for the next 3 seasons. Connor is not playing in spite of Joe T and I think the further JT develops the less that will even be a discussion.
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They are both weapons, in different ways, nice to have both in the quiver.
 
InGoodCo said:
Personally I don't think they are really playing the same position at this point and I like them both on the floor together. Not saying you are doing this, but I've never understood why we want Connor replaced or losing minutes so much as a fan base. He went 0-4 last night but it's not like he's always jacking up shots and IMO he does a lot of intangible stuff for the team besides scoring. He's also incredibly vocal to his team (and sometimes the other team) and I love that.
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It’s not always about stats. We’re better when Connor is on the floor IMO. As I’ve said many times...I love coach’s sons.
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
JT goes into the land of the trees a lot and you're not always sure how it's going to turn out but it's never boring when he does.
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The way he contorts his body and his hang time to finish at the basket is impressive. He has been a little better at finishing those difficult attempts the last few games. He is also making better decisions and the game seems to have slowed down a little for him to better anticipate when to take a chance and when to be patient.

I heard Mac McCausland say this on the Brommelkamp show last night. Toussaint should slow down just a little as he brings the ball up the court so he has an extra gear to blow by a defender as he comes up the court. I think that could really help his game and help Iowa be a better team offensively. He also needs to be more of a threat to shoot from 3 so teams can't sag off of him so much.
 
I said a few games ago that Joe T is worrying me a but with how poorly he was finishing at the rim. Some of his misses were really bad misses. Well lately he's really been finishing well. If that trend continues it will be a really good thing for us. His combination of speed and strength is extremely rare. He's probably the quickest point guard in the conference and he very well might already be the strongest too. To have those two things already means you're going to be pretty darn good if you're even average at everything else.
 
I didn’t really want my JT/CJ thread to spiral into a Connor discussion but oh well.

Yes Connor brings a ton of intangible things to this team, some things that don’t show up in the stat sheet. We’ve all seen that.

With that said it’s still fair to say he’s struggling right now. He hasn’t made a field goal in 3 strait B1G games, while averaging roughly 30 minutes. He’s shooting 18.2% over the last 5 games. Iowa is on a 5 game winning streak so they’ve been able to win in spite of that, however I do not think having a complete non threat on offense for 30 minutes is likely a good strategy.

In last nights game he actually made a couple bad plays that stuck out to me. He committed a very dumb foul in the first half while Reuvers was shooting a fall away shot. He had a huge turnover during our comeback run making a lazy post entry.

He’s been valuable that’s without question, but it’s still fair to say he’s struggling a bit. Again, I’m not sitting here saying he needs to be a scorer or even look to shoot more, but 18.2% is still 18.2%.

The good news is we have been winning these games. We are winning right now so who cares, but if his struggles continue and we start losing a few games, then it could be a different story.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I didn’t really want my JT/CJ thread to spiral into a Connor discussion but oh well.

Yes Connor brings a ton of intangible things to this team, some things that don’t show up in the stat sheet. We’ve all seen that.

With that said it’s still fair to say he’s struggling right now. He hasn’t made a field goal in 3 strait B1G games, while averaging roughly 30 minutes. He’s shooting 18.2% over the last 5 games. Iowa is on a 5 game winning streak so they’ve been able to win in spite of that, however I do not think having a complete non threat on offense for 30 minutes is likely a good strategy.

In last nights game he actually made a couple bad plays that stuck out to me. He committed a very dumb foul in the first half while Reuvers was shooting a fall away shot. He had a huge turnover during our comeback run making a lazy post entry.

He’s been valuable that’s without question, but it’s still fair to say he’s struggling a bit. Again, I’m not sitting here saying he needs to be a scorer or even look to shoot more, but 18.2% is still 18.2%.

The good news is we have been winning these games. We are winning right now so who cares, but if his struggles continue and we start losing a few games, then it could be a different story.
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Connor played a terrible game and Iowa won, the sign of a good team!
 
mopkins said:
Iowa has nearly a perfect team going into next year if they stay/get healthy and all return. They have an all american center, multiple proven 40%+ 3-point shooters, ball handlers, speed, role/glue guys. Its scary to think what they could do.

They could have a rotation that would always have 3 of garza/bohannon/fredrick/wieskamp on the floor at the same time...with JT and Connor in the mix as well as Nunge and some of the new guys. Really the main question mark would be a backup center or a 4 since Nunge has been questionable and coming off an ACL. Good thing Fran has a Center coming in as well as twin forwards in the Murrays.

Next year has colossal disappointment written all over it. What can I say I'm an Iowa bball fan.
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I sure hope we get Garza back next year. I have no idea which way he's leaning or what decision would make most sense for him. It's quite different than the NFL type discussions - where guys should "take the money" in most cases. It's a little different in basketball. And depending on Garza's career goals... staying another year, doubling up as All-American, becoming an Iowa legend... might have some real value.

Side note... very intrigued by Iowa's incoming recruiting class of 5 guys. The Murrays are somewhat "unranked" as preps. Perkins, Ogundele, and Ulis are 3 Stars and haven't gained a whole lot of elite national hype. So overall, 247 sports has us as the 57th best class nationally, which isn't too impressive for 5 guys. But it's intriguing because they could somewhat logically make a 1-5 lineup together. Sadly, the way modern CBB works, they probably won't all be Hawkeyes in 3 years. But if they were, how good could that lineup be ??
 
IowaTeddy said:
I sure hope we get Garza back next year. I have no idea which way he's leaning or what decision would make most sense for him. It's quite different than the NFL type discussions - where guys should "take the money" in most cases. It's a little different in basketball. And depending on Garza's career goals... staying another year, doubling up as All-American, becoming an Iowa legend... might have some real value.

Side note... very intrigued by Iowa's incoming recruiting class of 5 guys. The Murrays are somewhat "unranked" as preps. Perkins, Ogundele, and Ulis are 3 Stars and haven't gained a whole lot of elite national hype. So overall, 247 sports has us as the 57th best class nationally, which isn't too impressive for 5 guys. But it's intriguing because they could somewhat logically make a 1-5 lineup together. Sadly, the way modern CBB works, they probably won't all be Hawkeyes in 3 years. But if they were, how good could that lineup be ??
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Same here on the new class. If everyone comes back next year then Iowa will also have the option to redshirt some of these guys as well. If both the Murray twins would redshirt after a year of prep school, they wouldn't be college players until they were 20 years old and be eligible to play until they're 24...which would be nuts. BYU-esque.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I didn’t really want my JT/CJ thread to spiral into a Connor discussion but oh well.

Yes Connor brings a ton of intangible things to this team, some things that don’t show up in the stat sheet. We’ve all seen that.

With that said it’s still fair to say he’s struggling right now. He hasn’t made a field goal in 3 strait B1G games, while averaging roughly 30 minutes. He’s shooting 18.2% over the last 5 games. Iowa is on a 5 game winning streak so they’ve been able to win in spite of that, however I do not think having a complete non threat on offense for 30 minutes is likely a good strategy.

In last nights game he actually made a couple bad plays that stuck out to me. He committed a very dumb foul in the first half while Reuvers was shooting a fall away shot. He had a huge turnover during our comeback run making a lazy post entry.

He’s been valuable that’s without question, but it’s still fair to say he’s struggling a bit. Again, I’m not sitting here saying he needs to be a scorer or even look to shoot more, but 18.2% is still 18.2%.

The good news is we have been winning these games. We are winning right now so who cares, but if his struggles continue and we start losing a few games, then it could be a different story.
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CConnor being terrible on offense" makes a lot more sense now than it did 5 games ago. 5 games ago he didn't do much on offense but had a pretty darn good all around floor game going. Lately he's been straight up bad on offense to the point where it hurts the team. Hopefully it's a short term slump. If we're really lucky, a 5 game correction to the mean is coming.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I didn’t really want my JT/CJ thread to spiral into a Connor discussion but oh well.

Yes Connor brings a ton of intangible things to this team, some things that don’t show up in the stat sheet. We’ve all seen that.

With that said it’s still fair to say he’s struggling right now. He hasn’t made a field goal in 3 strait B1G games, while averaging roughly 30 minutes. He’s shooting 18.2% over the last 5 games. Iowa is on a 5 game winning streak so they’ve been able to win in spite of that, however I do not think having a complete non threat on offense for 30 minutes is likely a good strategy.

In last nights game he actually made a couple bad plays that stuck out to me. He committed a very dumb foul in the first half while Reuvers was shooting a fall away shot. He had a huge turnover during our comeback run making a lazy post entry.

He’s been valuable that’s without question, but it’s still fair to say he’s struggling a bit. Again, I’m not sitting here saying he needs to be a scorer or even look to shoot more, but 18.2% is still 18.2%.

The good news is we have been winning these games. We are winning right now so who cares, but if his struggles continue and we start losing a few games, then it could be a different story.
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No and I didn't either, but Connor isn't taking minutes away from these guys playing the 4 which is why I even brought it up. I will admit that he's struggling to shoot the ball, he is, but IMO, he has to take that shot when he's given it. So, I say fire away as long as it's within the offense. His minutes aren't going to get cut back because of all the other intangibles you mentioned.
 
mopkins said:
Same here on the new class. If everyone comes back next year then Iowa will also have the option to redshirt some of these guys as well. If both the Murray twins would redshirt after a year of prep school, they wouldn't be college players until they were 20 years old and be eligible to play until they're 24...which would be nuts. BYU-esque.
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Totally agree. Lot of redshirt opportunities for that incoming crew. Without getting too creative on positions, depth could look like:

PG: JT + JBo
SG: CJF + CMc
SF: Wieskamp + Till
PF: Nunge + PMc
C: Garza + Ogundele
 
Jonrn said:
I fear a major letdown next year, I just don’t see how Garza comes back.
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Worry about next year when next year comes. Enjoy this year.

I can see it now, the more we win, the more people are going to bring up the letdown factor It's nice to be in a position to be let down for a change. We've showed more clutch this year than in Fran's,s first nine years combined.
 
InGoodCo said:
No and I didn't either, but Connor isn't taking minutes away from these guys playing the 4 which is why I even brought it up. I will admit that he's struggling to shoot the ball, he is, but IMO, he has to take that shot when he's given it. So, I say fire away as long as it's within the offense. His minutes aren't going to get cut back because of all the other intangibles you mentioned.
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O ya. I have no issue with any of his shots last night, other than he didn’t make them. He doesn’t need to be a scorer, just has to give us something. Basically he hasn’t scored in the last three games outside of free throws in the final minutes.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I didn’t really want my JT/CJ thread to spiral into a Connor discussion but oh well.

Yes Connor brings a ton of intangible things to this team, some things that don’t show up in the stat sheet. We’ve all seen that.

With that said it’s still fair to say he’s struggling right now. He hasn’t made a field goal in 3 strait B1G games, while averaging roughly 30 minutes. He’s shooting 18.2% over the last 5 games. Iowa is on a 5 game winning streak so they’ve been able to win in spite of that, however I do not think having a complete non threat on offense for 30 minutes is likely a good strategy.

In last nights game he actually made a couple bad plays that stuck out to me. He committed a very dumb foul in the first half while Reuvers was shooting a fall away shot. He had a huge turnover during our comeback run making a lazy post entry.

He’s been valuable that’s without question, but it’s still fair to say he’s struggling a bit. Again, I’m not sitting here saying he needs to be a scorer or even look to shoot more, but 18.2% is still 18.2%.

The good news is we have been winning these games. We are winning right now so who cares, but if his struggles continue and we start losing a few games, then it could be a different story.
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The opposition scouting report is back to where it was last year.......let Conner shoot. It is the right play I would make Conner hit jump shots as well. That hitch in his jumper that I thought was gone has now returned. The good thing is I do not think it matters if Conner is making shots this year.
 
Back to the topic at hand. Here are the stats for the last two games against two very good defensive teams.

Toussaint- 12.5 PPG / 4 APG / 1 SPG / 1.5 TPG
Fredrick - 12.5 PPG / 2.5 APG / 4 3PM

Is that a preview of what these two might look like as junior and seniors? I actually think Fredrick might end up averaging 15+. Toussaint if his shot comes around and with extended minutes should be in that 12-15 range down the road as well.
 
ssckelley said:
I'm just so glad that Fran finally brought in a true point guard. I was worried that he was going to rely on his son to be the point. This is what's been missing from Iowa basketball since Gesell.
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Did you say Gesell? Are you comparing a small non-penetrating pg who was not a game closing free throw shooter as well as a spotty shooter a player in Joe's class. The only holes in Joe's game is his 3 point shooting and pull up game which I think will come. Gesell was a poor mans pg at best.
 
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