Time to Pull the Plug On the Oglesby's Playing Time?

I

iowalaw

Banned
This is year four of former highly touted recruit Josh Oglesby's stint at the U of Iowa. There is no time left to "improve" his shooting touch, he is who he is. His sophomore slump was much debated two years ago, as he ranked statistically LAST in the nation in three point shooting, yet Fran continued to sing his praises as being "the best" practice shooter he has seen. For that reason, Josh continued to get plenty of playing time and continued to cost the hawks games with big misses. Since we didn't have any other shooters on the roster, we gave Fran the benefit of the doubt for playing him.

Last season, Josh improved his shot a bit. He showed glimpses of why he was highly touted in a couple games, but by and large could not be counted on to hit a clutch 3, and he ultimately helped contribute to our last season string of very close losses.

It is now Josh's senior season. Over the past two years, the staff has gone out and brought in several guys who specialize in the 3 ball (Jok, Uthoff, Ellingson, etc.). Nonetheless, Josh is still seeing the lion's share of p/t compared with Jok and Ellingson. Is it deserved? Here are Josh's 3 point shooting percentages in games this year, starting with last night's game:

0 - 5
0 - 4
0 - 3
3 - 7
2 - 6
1 - 7
2 - 6
1 - 6
2 - 8
1 - 5

He is shooting 21% from the field and 21% from 3 point land! Like his sophomore year, these are some of the worst percentages in major college basketball. The misses are adding up and costing us huge. Is Josh the best we have? Should he see so much playing time, or has he had his chance and should we let the younger guys come in and get more experience. I believe we know what we have in Josh (like Rudock), and it's time to let the younger guys with more potential (Bethard) start taking his minutes.
 
My only argument is that I don't think its fair to say that JO is only on the floor and helpful to the team when it comes to shooting the three. He may be broke and struggling right now when it comes to shooting the ball, but I think there are some things he's doing well.

Honest question but based on your assessment of JO, couldn't the same thing be said about Jok's ability to play defense?
 
kicker22 said:
My only argument is that I don't think its fair to say that JO is only on the floor and helpful to the team when it comes to shooting the three. He may be broke and struggling right now when it comes to shooting the ball, but I think there are some things he's doing well.

Honest question but based on your assessment of JO, couldn't the same thing be said about Jok's ability to play defense?
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I think there are things Josh has done well this year, especially his passing, but that doesn't mean the other guys can't do them too. After Josh came back from his foot injury when he wasn't 100% he shot the ball pretty good. Maybe he is just trying to hard and just needs to take his time and relax. The other off guards, including Jok, aren't really shooting lights out all the time. Its to bad Ellingson got hurt and isn't 100%. Whoever the best guys are should be starting. I'm not saying Josh isn't the best guy.
 
Tierney said:
I think there are things Josh has done well this year, especially his passing, but that doesn't mean the other guys can't do them too. After Josh came back from his foot injury when he wasn't 100% he shot the ball pretty good. Maybe he is just trying to hard and just needs to take his time and relax. The other off guards, including Jok, aren't really shooting lights out all the time. Its to bad Ellingson got hurt and isn't 100%. Whoever the best guys are should be starting. I'm not saying Josh isn't the best guy.
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Agree with this. I think you hit the nail on the head in the fact that he's not the only one struggling. I think if that were the case and he was clearly being outplayed and not simply sitting to develop younger guys then it would be a simply fix to reassign the minutes. That said, just because he's struggling doesn't mean anyone else's play has been at a level where JOs minutes should be relegated.
 
tm3308 said:
He does contribute in other ways, but he needs to stop ******* shooting so much.
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He doesn't shoot much, he passes up a lot of good looks, which probably drives Fran crazy. I would be all for reducing his playing time if we had a better option, at this point, we don't though. Jok hasn't done anything to separate himself from JO. It seems like Oglesby is worried a lot about missing, he's never been the type to just let them fly, you would like your shooters to have more confidence than he does.
 
tm3308 said:
He does contribute in other ways, but he needs to stop ******* shooting so much.
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He HAD to shoot his way out of it, so in the Warm-up games, it really didn't matter.
However, in bigger games and the BigTen, he might need to be a bit more selective.

His Floor game, plus rebounding & defense has improved, so there's that.
However, if his shooting touch does not re-appear soon, his minutes will naturally go down.

GO HAWKS
 
I think it is all in his head. Been watching him closely in games, and when the ball gets moved around and the play is unfolding for him to accept a pass and pull the trigger, he doesn't just catch and shoot, there is some slight stutter step, like he was thinking about it, then passes. And then the times it looks like he's gonna get the ball and maybe not pull the trigger, he ends up pulling it. Seems like he is out of sync most of the time.
 
JO can definitely defend better the Ellingson! I will say that when Ellingson did get in the game last night he did have a little higher intensity on D then the last game.

I believe that Jok did come off the bench before JO did last night. I think you will see more of that.

Simple fact for me is JO is better on D then Jok and Ellingson at this point.

I do agree time to move towards the Hawks future
 
HawkeyeMike23 said:
He doesn't shoot much, he passes up a lot of good looks, which probably drives Fran crazy. I would be all for reducing his playing time if we had a better option, at this point, we don't though. Jok hasn't done anything to separate himself from JO. It seems like Oglesby is worried a lot about missing, he's never been the type to just let them fly, you would like your shooters to have more confidence than he does.
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Mikey is spot on. This is another thread that makes me roll my eyes. No, Oglesby is absolutely not taking too many shots. Sure, it's frustrating he's not making many, but there is much more to look at.

1. Defense - Oglesby is better than Jok
2. Assist/Turnover - Easy check for Oglesby. (Jok is 9:14 and Oglesby is 27:5)
3. Bball IQ - you guessed it, Oglesby
4. 3pt % - Jok is shooting 30%, not that great either.

I'd be all for a switch if there was a better alternative, but there isn't. Plus, he's going to hit some in big games... just wait.
 
imported_blkngldFRO said:
JO can definitely defend better the Ellingson! I will say that when Ellingson did get in the game last night he did have a little higher intensity on D then the last game.

I believe that Jok did come off the bench before JO did last night. I think you will see more of that.

Simple fact for me is JO is better on D then Jok and Ellingson at this point.

I do agree time to move towards the Hawks future
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Jok coming off the bench 1st the last 2 games shows that Fran agrees with the op. Jok hasn't gotten to the point of taking all of Josh's minutes but he is going down that path. Anyone else notice how hard Jok played last night? His shots didn't fall but they were at least close unlike Oges have been. He hit the boards and played D hard.
 
While I agree that Jok isn't exactly setting the world on fire with his shooting, it makes me wonder why it has been so difficult under Fran to find a guy who can shoot from outside. I think in football, you can develop 3 star recruits into studs. In basketball, if you bring in a bunch of 3 stars, they probably aren't going to suddenly learn to shoot.

Jok and Ellingson were not heavily recruited, but they came in has one dimensional players (shooters). They aren't expected to be defensive superstars, but they are guys who Fran believed could raise us from the bottom of the Big 10 in 3 point shooting. I think it's time for them to take Josh's minutes and build some confidence.
 
Wait? Oglesby wasn't recruited as a shooter? Tell me then, was is it his ability to dunk? I'm listening...
 
It's been time to pull the plug for the past 4 years.

Oglewinkel has had 1 year where he was actually putting the biscuit in the basket at a clip > 40% and believe it or not, that was last year. I can guarantee you the kid can light it up in practice but when the spotlight is on him, he's tentative as a mouse in a room full of cats to actually put up a shot.

If you look at his statistics, the kids lights it up in big wins and goes in a shell in tight games. And its not like the big wins are carried on Oglewinkels shoulders either. Look at the Minny game last year as a perfect example. JO contributed on two nice 3s to end the half, shot 70% from 3 and the offense was basically geared towards getting him his looks. We didn't win the Minny game because of his shooting, in fact, we pulled away when he was on the bench but it was once of his best games as a Hawk.

Then the kid goes into a cave and doesn't have another double-digit game for a month in spite of the constant high screens that our bigs are setting for him while our offense looks like a three ringed circus.

The kid simply isn't a gamer. Turn off the lights and he can he could shoot for days, turn on the lights and his nutz pucker up into his sack....not a good combination for success.
 
hawkeye12345 said:
It's been time to pull the plug for the past 4 years.

Oglewinkel has had 1 year where he was actually putting the biscuit in the basket at a clip > 40% and believe it or not, that was last year. I can guarantee you the kid can light it up in practice but when the spotlight is on him, he's tentative as a mouse in a room full of cats to actually put up a shot.

If you look at his statistics, the kids lights it up in big wins and goes in a shell in tight games. And its not like the big wins are carried on Oglewinkels shoulders either. Look at the Minny game last year as a perfect example. JO contributed on two nice 3s to end the half, shot 70% from 3 and the offense was basically geared towards getting him his looks. We didn't win the Minny game because of his shooting, in fact, we pulled away when he was on the bench but it was once of his best games as a Hawk.

Then the kid goes into a cave and doesn't have another double-digit game for a month in spite of the constant high screens that our bigs are setting for him while our offense looks like a three ringed circus.

The kid simply isn't a gamer. Turn off the lights and he can he could shoot for days, turn on the lights and his nutz pucker up into his sack....not a good combination for success.
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With him it's obviously mental but I don't think it has anything to do with how good the compition is. He singlehandedly kept us in the game against Wisconsin last year. I don't think it's the pressure of winning or losing. I think it's not feeling comfortable playing in front of a crowd or on tv maybe.
 
Also he has to work so hard to get his shot off that I think the shock of actually being able to shoot makes him not be able to concentrate on making it. When Jok is out there, it looks like he can shoot whenever he wants. He doesn't have to sprint back and forth for 30 seconds in hopes of getting a chance to do a turn around fade away 3. It's a lot easier to shoot with confidence when you can shoot when you want to as opposed to shooting when you finally have a chance.
 
Iowalaw is so freakin' predictable. I was hoping he wouldn't find his way over here from the football board. I don't think I've ever seen anyone who claims to know more than D1 coaches in multiple sports.

I can't wait to read his analysis of the field hockey and badmitton teams...
 
I haven't watched him that closely for the most part. Is he still doing his stupid fadaway?
 
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