There are still a lot of PGs out there...

[HeneryHawk]

Henderson never took over the team, ran the O, and made the team work, Cartwright does that. Henderson occasionally would lose concentration and lose the ball to a ghost. On a team with less, Bryce made it work(when the opposing Ds knew he was the one to be stopped), whereas with more talent all around him, Mike never put it all together and took the team on a run. The guy with more should have been the one more able to do it, and he didnt and he had Horner along with him, who could handle, shoot, and take pressure off him, Bryce didnt have that luxury.

Best PGs of last 25 years for IOWA

1) Andre W
2) Dean O
3) Bryce C
4) BJ
5) Micheal Reaves/Jeff Horner(although Horner was a combo really)

**note..no Mike Henderson**

 

[1111Hawk]

I'm not sure how an NBA champion, All-star and 3 point champion could be 4th on that list?????
I like Bryce but lets not get carried away here.

 

[tm3308]

I'm not sure how an NBA champion, All-star and 3 point champion could be 4th on that list?????
I like Bryce but lets not get carried away here.

That jumped out to me as well. Definitely don't buy that. I can MAYBE see a case for being better than Horner, but personally I'd take Jeff over Cartwright.

 

[Hawkstrat]

That jumped out to me as well. Definitely don't buy that. I can MAYBE see a case for being better than Horner, but personally I'd take Jeff over Cartwright.

Jeff is the better basketball player, but I don't know if he was the better PG.

 

[Section136]

I can MAYBE see a case for being better than Horner,

I dont know how anybody can maybe see that at all. Horner is the schools all time leader in assists and 3 point field goals and is 7th all time in steals.

 

[MikeyJoe]

What sticks out more to me from that stat line is how brutal Henderson's assist numbers were even with much better talent around him.

 

[Wassabbe]

With all due respect, but ANYBODY that thinks Bryce Cartwright is better than Jeff Horner is an idiot. And remember I said with all due respect!

Really people? Really? Jeff was better at every aspect of the game and was so much smarter of a player than Bryce. Bryce Cartwright isn't a top 5 PG in the last 15 years let alone the last 25! Better than BJ Armstrong? WHAT?!?!

 

[TChawk]

Henderson never took over the team, ran the O, and made the team work, Cartwright does that. Henderson occasionally would lose concentration and lose the ball to a ghost. On a team with less, Bryce made it work(when the opposing Ds knew he was the one to be stopped), whereas with more talent all around him, Mike never put it all together and took the team on a run. The guy with more should have been the one more able to do it, and he didnt and he had Horner along with him, who could handle, shoot, and take pressure off him, Bryce didnt have that luxury.

Best PGs of last 25 years for IOWA

1) Andre W
2) Dean O
3) Bryce C
4) BJ
5) Micheal Reaves/Jeff Horner(although Horner was a combo really)

**note..no Mike Henderson**

Henderson didn't have to take over the game, and yes he was a better over all player than Cartwright and really is not even close....

and if you really think Bryce C was a better Pg than BJ or Jeff H then you know NOTHING about BB.

 

[Wassabbe]

What sticks out more to me from that stat line is how brutal Henderson's assist numbers were even with much better talent around him.

He didn't have to be the primary assist guy. He had guys that could create their own shot like Haluska and Horner. If he didn't have the luxury he would have had more assists. Cartwright would average 5 assists on that team

 

[MikeyJoe]

He didn't have to be the primary assist guy. He had guys that could create their own shot like Haluska and Horner. If he didn't have the luxury he would have had more assists. Cartwright would average 5 assists on that team

Yet despite handling the ball so infrequently that he had 195% less assists, he only had 43% less turnovers. Yikes.

 

[Wassabbe]

Yet despite handling the ball so infrequently that he had 195% less assists, he only had 43% less turnovers. Yikes.

No doubt. Henderson was careless with the ball. Drove me crazy.

 

[BryceC]

Interesting conversation, and I thought I’d add two points here.

Getting Cartwright really late last year was an excellent move by Fran. You absolutely, positively, cannot bank on it though. In McDermott’s first year at ISU he recruited a bunch of guys in the spring and he really lucked out on one (Wesley Johnson) and the rest were terrible. My point is that you can get some good players in the spring, but it’s unlikely you’ll “hit” on enough to make it worth your while.

Also, Cartwright’s #’s are a little inflated because of the team he plays on. I compare Cartwright to Mike Taylor at ISU a few years ago. Mike was a pretty good player, but the complete lack of reliable offense from any other player on the team really inflated his value. Bryce had a good year but what other team in the Big 10 would he have started for last year? I would argue that his numbers would not be nearly as good because his offensive efficiency is at a level no other coach would let him bomb away like that.

 

[tm3308]

Interesting conversation, and I thought I’d add two points here.

Getting Cartwright really late last year was an excellent move by Fran. You absolutely, positively, cannot bank on it though. In McDermott’s first year at ISU he recruited a bunch of guys in the spring and he really lucked out on one (Wesley Johnson) and the rest were terrible. My point is that you can get some good players in the spring, but it’s unlikely you’ll “hit†on enough to make it worth your while.

Also, Cartwright’s #’s are a little inflated because of the team he plays on. I compare Cartwright to Mike Taylor at ISU a few years ago. Mike was a pretty good player, but the complete lack of reliable offense from any other player on the team really inflated his value. Bryce had a good year but what other team in the Big 10 would he have started for last year? I would argue that his numbers would not be nearly as good because his offensive efficiency is at a level no other coach would let him bomb away like that.

On a better team, he wouldn't have to bomb away. If he were allowed to focus mainly on distribution? He probably wouldn't have started for many other BT teams, but the conference was LOADED at PG last year. Lucas, Morris, McCamey, Battle, Thompson, Taylor, Buford/Kraft. Pretty damn good group.

 

[McHawkin]

I never said Bryce wasn't good. I simply said that a player of Bryce's caliber is never going to lead a team in the Big 10 to 20 wins. And as a Hawkeye fan that is what I want, to win 20 games in a season again.

No doubt Bryce was our 2nd or 3rd best player last year. But guard is the most important position in college and we need to get better there. Missing on all these recruits is alarming

You are a moron…Bryce led the B1G in assists and was in the top 20 in the country in assists per game (5.9 per game). He also averaged 11 points per game. If you just counted his apg as 2-point baskets plus his ppg he is worth 23 points a game. That is a nice chunk of offense, and is actually a team leading chunk of offense. So check your head Wassabbe!

 

[Wassabbe]

You are a moron…Bryce led the B1G in assists and was in the top 20 in the country in assists per game (5.9 per game). He also averaged 11 points per game. If you just counted his apg as 2-point baskets plus his ppg he is worth 23 points a game. That is a nice chunk of offense, and is actually a team leading chunk of offense. So check your head Wassabbe!

23 points on a horrible team. Sorry but it is all relative. He wouldn't have started for any other team in the Big 10, except Indiana maybe. I'm sorry but if we as a program want to improve we need to start recruiting better at EVERY position. PG included.

 

[BALDIES7980]

23 points on a horrible team. Sorry but it is all relative. He wouldn't have started for any other team in the Big 10, except Indiana maybe. I'm sorry but if we as a program want to improve we need to start recruiting better at EVERY position. PG included.

Thank you God.

 

[JHHawk]

23 points on a horrible team. Sorry but it is all relative. He wouldn't have started for any other team in the Big 10, except Indiana maybe. I'm sorry but if we as a program want to improve we need to start recruiting better at EVERY position. PG included.

It was a strong year for pg in the Big Ten.

This year, he would start at Minny,Illinois,NW,IU,MSU,PSU and Michigan if Morris comes out.
Only Craft,Taylor,and Morris(if he returns) are clearly better. LewJack is about equal.

And yes, Bryce is better than Henderson.

 

[storminspank]

Iowa doesn't need a showstopping PG at this point and time, they need someone to give Cartwright a breather. Fran and the staff in on quite a few different PGs that fit this bill. If they can get a viable option at the PG that is eligible for a few years, they can try to snag a higher talent in the next class. But they need a body at PG first and foremost, and I would be floored if they don't get 1 of the guys they are targeting.

 

[hawkIhoops]

Iowa doesn't need a showstopping PG at this point and time, they need someone to give Cartwright a breather.

Agree. We aren't competing with UK, KU, Duke, UNC for one and done kids, so in reality, any of them will be an upgrade from nobody. If the bar is what Cully would bring to the table had he stayed, I think any of these guys will be an upgrade.

 

[Hawkstrat]

I'm worried about who takes over for Cartwright in '12.