There are still a lot of PGs out there...

[DodgerHawki]

Iowa has had far worse point guards than Cartwright...

I never said Bryce wasn't good. I simply said that a player of Bryce's caliber is never going to lead a team in the Big 10 to 20 wins. And as a Hawkeye fan that is what I want, to win 20 games in a season again.

No doubt Bryce was our 2nd or 3rd best player last year. But guard is the most important position in college and we need to get better there. Missing on all these recruits is alarming

on teams that won. The 1990-91 team went 21-11 and won a first-round NCAA game with Troy Skinner and Kevin Smith as the point guards. Cartwright is 5x the player either of them were. The next year Iowa went 19-11 and again won a first-round NCAA game with Skinner and Smith. Then in 92-93 Iowa went 23-9 with Smith playing most of the PG minutes and averaging a whopping 5.0 points per game. Smith was not a bad player, but he absolutely could not shoot and wasn't in Cartwright's league.
If our other positions had players of Cartwright's caliber, we'd be a tournament caliber team.

 

[SheagleHawk]

I'd take Henderson any day of the week.

Please explain. Henderson played D; that's about it. His A/T ratios were not good (3 years below 1.0= BAD,especially given the talent he had on that team with him). Averaged less than 1 steal/game in his career(not good for someone with no offensive game). Rebounds were low (I know he's a guard). Really couldn't create his own shot as Bryce can. Pretty Troy Skinner-like career minus the decent shooting.

 

[SheagleHawk]

Re: Iowa has had far worse point guards than Cartwright...

on teams that won. The 1990-91 team went 21-11 and won a first-round NCAA game with Troy Skinner and Kevin Smith as the point guards. Cartwright is 5x the player either of them were. The next year Iowa went 19-11 and again won a first-round NCAA game with Skinner and Smith. Then in 92-93 Iowa went 23-9 with Smith playing most of the PG minutes and averaging a whopping 5.0 points per game. Smith was not a bad player, but he absolutely could not shoot and wasn't in Cartwright's league.
If our other positions had players of Cartwright's caliber, we'd be a tournament caliber team.

Interesting that you brought Skinner up for comparison as well.

 

[Hawkstrat]

I'd take Henderson any day of the week.

Cartwright is the better player. Like someone said above, you can make the argument that for that specific team, Henderson filled a need that Bryce couldn't- on the ball D, but as to the better player, it really isn't close.

I respectfully disagree with the notion the Henderson was better for that team, but it is a reasonable position and I understand it.

 

[Wassabbe]

Please explain. Henderson played D; that's about it. His A/T ratios were not good (3 years below 1.0= BAD,especially given the talent he had on that team with him). Averaged less than 1 steal/game in his career(not good for someone with no offensive game). Rebounds were low (I know he's a guard). Really couldn't create his own shot as Bryce can. Pretty Troy Skinner-like career minus the decent shooting.

On THAT team, I think Henderson's defense was much more needed than Cartwrights.

I also think that if Henderson played on a team with as little talent as Bryce did this last season, you would see his offense was the same if not better than Bryce's. He was a better athlete. But when you have guys like Brunner and Horner around you, you don't have to do much on offense. Bryce would not be a scorer on those teams. His 25% 3 point shot would get in the way

 

[HawkeyesWin]

All we really need at this point in recruiting is a servicable JUCO PG to get us to the 2012 recruiting class. Then we go after a prep PG with: new practice facility, playing time, team showed good improvement in 2011-12, FM knows how to rebuild, fans aren't whiney little b!tches anymore,...

Have faith Hawkeye fans, have faith.

 

[hawkeye12345]

I'd take Henderson any day of the week.

Now you're just being stupid.

 

[SheagleHawk]

]On THAT team, I think Henderson's defense was much more needed than Cartwrights[/B].

I also think that if Henderson played on a team with as little talent as Bryce did this last season, you would see his offense was the same if not better than Bryce's. He was a better athlete. But when you have guys like Brunner and Horner around you, you don't have to do much on offense. Bryce would not be a scorer on those teams. His 25% 3 point shot would get in the way

Agreed. I do doubt, however, that Cartwright would have shot 27% from behind the arc were he not the primary offensive option and the primary defensive target on a bad team. Henderson had the luxury of being nearly an afterthought on offense as he was the 3rd of 4th option most of the time on the floor. Bryce also couldn't have had any legs left in most of the games this year after playing nearly 40 minutes every night. This obviously affected his shooting.

 

[Wassabbe]

Now you're just being stupid.

Nothing to add? I don't mind debate.

 

[CAARHawk]

Duff, isn't there some guy at the fieldhouse who is supposed to be better than joiner on offense? Why don't we get him?

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

What if the two Sunrise kids and Hubbard all commit? Does Fran go with Marble as back-up PG again? Does he find a walk-on who can contribute a few minutes a game? Or does Fran reserve a scholarship for a PG no matter what and thus turns one of these kids away? (I can't see that).

Or can Hubbard also bring the ball up the court in a pinch?

Our more glaring weaknesses short-term seem to be an inside player and help at PG, yet I think the type of player that helps us the most next season is an athletic perimeter player who can take it to the basket and shoot from outside.

In other words, if the two front court guys commit together, I can't see Fran turning away Hubbard for the sole reason of signing a PG.

 

[IATrainMaster101]

I'd take Henderson any day of the week.

I think you would lose pretty close to 7 out of 7 times with that bet.

Bryce is one of the more under rated players in the B10 right now. I don't really care to debate because we will just end up with neither convincing the other. But I know I'm right about this one.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Now you're just being stupid.

Nothing to add? I don't mind debate.

Sure. I'll add. Here's a multiple choice question.

A - You don't know much about basketball.
B - You're not really a Hawk fan.
C - You're a Hawk fan that knows nothing about basketball and likes to stir the pot.

I don't know the answer. Your posts suggest A, B or C could be the correct answer.

 

[Wassabbe]

Sure. I'll add. Here's a multiple choice question.

A - You don't know much about basketball.
B - You're not really a Hawk fan.
C - You're a Hawk fan that knows nothing about basketball and likes to stir the pot.

I don't know the answer. Your posts suggest A, B or C could be the correct answer.

There are others on this thread that have agreed. I don't know why you have to mock me for my opinion. In my opinion Henderson is a better overall player

Size? Henderson
Defense? Henderson
Passing? Bryce
Shooting? Henderson shot 10% higher

Henderson was a solid player for us. Bryce is too but he is solid on a horrible team and thus looks better than he is.

Compare junior stats

Henderson
29 min, 7.6 ppg, 3.8 rb, 2.0 ***, 2.3 turnovers, 1.1 steal, 48% FG, 70% FT, 46% 3 pt, 1.39 PPS

Cartwright
31.1 min, 10.9, 2.9 rb, 5.9 ***, 3.3. turnovers, .9 steals, 39% FG, 69% FT, 27% 3 pt, .99 PPS

So Henderson averaged .40 more points per shot. It's hard to compare as they played different roles but I am very confident in saying that Cartwright wouldn't start over Henderson on that Iowa team

 

[HawkPhreek]

There are others on this thread that have agreed. I don't know why you have to mock me for my opinion. In my opinion Henderson is a better overall player

Size? Henderson
Defense? Henderson
Passing? Bryce
Shooting? Henderson shot 10% higher

Henderson was a solid player for us. Bryce is too but he is solid on a horrible team and thus looks better than he is.

Compare junior stats

Henderson
29 min, 7.6 ppg, 3.8 rb, 2.0 ***, 2.3 turnovers, 1.1 steal, 48% FG, 70% FT, 46% 3 pt, 1.39 PPS

Cartwright
31.1 min, 10.9, 2.9 rb, 5.9 ***, 3.3. turnovers, .9 steals, 39% FG, 69% FT, 27% 3 pt, .99 PPS

So Henderson averaged .40 more points per shot. It's hard to compare as they played different roles but I am very confident in saying that Cartwright wouldn't start over Henderson on that Iowa team

This is so terrible let me start by saying that Iowa team had talent and that is all that Henderson could do ??? #2 Was that Henderson Senior year ? What was his stats his first year? His senior year got most improved player.

 

[Wassabbe]

This is so terrible let me start by saying that Iowa team had talent and that is all that Henderson could do ??? #2 Was that Henderson Senior year ? What was his stats his first year? His senior year got most improved player.

You are wrong. It's his junior year. Same as Cartwrights. Henderson plays on this Iowa team and he scores 14 a game and is Iowa's top scorer. Guaranteed.

Who does Bryce start over on that team? Horner? Haluska? Henderson? Henderson would shut him down. Do you people forget how good he was on defense?

 

[HawkPhreek]

You are wrong. It's his junior year. Same as Cartwrights. Henderson plays on this Iowa team and he scores 14 a game and is Iowa's top scorer. Guaranteed.

Who does Bryce start over on that team? Horner? Haluska? Henderson? Henderson would shut him down. Do you people forget how good he was on defense?

By no means am I trying to put down Henderson, Just don't think there is anyway you can compare the two. Two very different styles for one, two way different teams, and one had three years in the program and one had six months.

If you want to try If Bryce had three years in the program and that core Henderson would have came off the bench.

 

[Wassabbe]

By no means am I trying to put down Henderson, Just don't think there is anyway you can compare the two. Two very different styles for one, two way different teams, and one had three years in the program and one had six months.

If you want to try If Bryce had three years in the program and that core Henderson would have came off the bench.

Agree to disagree. Give me Henderson's size and athletic ability.

I agree that you can't compare the two. This started with a poster saying that 2005-06 team would have been awesome with Bryce. I think they would be worse with Bryce over Henderson. They didn't need a scorer. Brunner, Haluska, and Horner did that. They needed a defender and an athlete. That's what Henderson brought to the table

 

[deanvogs]

Agree to disagree. Give me Henderson's size and athletic ability.

I agree that you can't compare the two. This started with a poster saying that 2005-06 team would have been awesome with Bryce. I think they would be worse with Bryce over Henderson. They didn't need a scorer. Brunner, Haluska, and Horner did that. They needed a defender and an athlete. That's what Henderson brought to the table

Who the F cares? Henderson no longer plays, when he did play it wasn't the same position as Cartwight anyway. Why don't you change your poster name to Waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhabbe anyway. All u do is cry, b!tch, and moan........oh yeah that means u care more.

 

[Wassabbe]

Who the F cares? Henderson no longer plays, when he did play it wasn't the same position as Cartwight anyway. Why don't you change your poster name to Waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhabbe anyway. All u do is cry, b!tch, and moan........oh yeah that means u care more.

What are you talking about? A poster made a claim and I disagreed. Isn't that what these boards are for?