The Train Wreck That is Iowa Basketball!! - My Rant

MelroseHawkins

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
Parquet -

Try this version. He says some interesting things.

"Let me preface this long post first by stating that I realize this is a young Iowa team. I have put this in perspective but still don't think this style of play is going to fly regardless of how experienced they would be. Would this system work with more athletic players?

Prob not much more because it doesn't allow the players to utilize their athleticism. This is what worries me. Is Licklighter's coaching limited to this one system or philosophy? That concerns me. Is he able to make in-game coaching changes or does he have tunnel vision to this one system?

Iowa's problem is that they don't have athetes (or very few) that can create space with the defender. When one cannot create space & only settle for 3 bombs, the team is one-dimensional. Bawinkle is completely one-dimensional. To have a player that only takes 3's & not too tough to guard. A guy can play off him about 12 ft & sag in the lane to spy on Gatens or Payne driving. Then can have enough time to go out on Bawinkle if they pass him the ball. This allows one defender to check two guys. Well, you know that Bawinkle will never pump-fake & drive. That will never happen. Can't he add this to his arsenal to go along with his stellar D.

Not to harp on Bawinkle, prob a good kid. But my point is that Iowa is too slow & easy to defend because do not create space. They don't utilize the dribble well because they don't go to the hoop. I'm sick of seeing this lackluster O with the guards dribbling at the top of the key laterally to pass for someone to launch a 3.

The spacing flat out sucks. For geez sakes, watch UNI & just freeking copy them. Seriously, watch tape of them & just run exactly what they run. They seem to get spacing & pass more than dribble & when they dribble, they actually drive to the hoop & maybe dish. They use the dribble efficiently. They do this with mid-major players. They seem to be able to find an open shot when they need to.

I never intended to rant, but might as well get it off my chest. Another problem is that Iowa doesn't utilize the big men. I watch them & they never work the post or try to establish position, why, because that is not in Lick's interest. Watch them. They pretty much are just flowing with the O to spread the floor & don't really try to establish position on the block.

When is the last time Cougill posted up & got the ball down low & took a shot? Why get the ball down low. A team has to go down low in the Big 10 to at least try & get some fouls on the opponents big men. When is the last time Iowa fouled out an opponents big man? Iowa is a team that has to go to the line to get points due to lack of athleticism. Have to at least try to go inside to keep the D honest & put a little pressure on them. But no, Iowa's centers/forwards are always at the top of the key trying to set the pick & roll to free up a 3 bomb.

They actually only get a couple assists on a good roll a game. What is wrong with this? The whole damn O is always out of continuity & many times is a big CF of confusion. They have two guys trying to set a pick at the same time, etc. because they often are not on the same page. Then, someone launches a 3 bomb because the shot clock is down to 2 sec & now the big men are up at the top of the key & not in rebounding position because they were up there to try to pick.

Oh, when the 3 is missed, will prob lead to a transition bucket the the opposing team. The only way this current system will work if the team can has 4 guys on the court that can hit the 3 at least 35-40% of the time & that will not consistently win you games, especially in the Big 10. You may pull a shocker 1-2 times a year, but will not win consistently. Jared Cole has regressed more every year has been in the program.

Go back to Cole in his freshman year & remember how athletic he played & how he took it to the rack with authority prior to his injury. We only get to see glimpses of it a game now. I'm pretty sure it's not him but the system that he is playing in that limits him. They have to establish some kind of consistent inside game. Get the guys on the block & teach them how to establish position instead of just standing there to provide spacing for the offense. USE THEM!! Get fouls on the D's centers/forwards. For GEEZ sakes, MAKE THEM GUARD YOU!!!! Make the offense more dimentional. Sorry for the rant."

Thanks Parquet for editing/spacing
 
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I agree with the lack of a post game. Fuller has showed he has game down low but rarely gets a basket unless it's an offensive rebound. The thing about Bawinkle is that teams know he is 3 point shooter but tends to be open, you would think they would stay on him and the drive to the basket would be there, same thing could be said for Cougill. All the players need to work on their off hand, they should be able to take two dribbles and hit a shot coming off a screen. All Iowa players use their strong hand most of the time which is easy to defend. Setting better more meaningfull screens would be a help to. I don't think Cole has regressed, but like you said the system might be limiting him, he is a hard worker. The effort is there, they play pretty good defense, rebounding has come around but the offense, inbound plays, late game play calling are not so good.
 
Try this version. He says some interesting things.

"Let me preface this long post first by stating that I realize this is a young Iowa team. I have put this in perspective but still don't think this style of play is going to fly regardless of how experienced they would be. Would this system work with more athletic players?

Prob not much more because it doesn't allow the players to utilize their athleticism. This is what worries me. Is Licklighter's coaching limited to this one system or philosophy? That concerns me. Is he able to make in-game coaching changes or does he have tunnel vision to this one system?

Iowa's problem is that they don't have athetes (or very few) that can create space with the defender. When one cannot create space & only settle for 3 bombs, the team is one-dimensional. Bawinkle is completely one-dimensional. To have a player that only takes 3's & not too tough to guard. A guy can play off him about 12 ft & sag in the lane to spy on Gatens or Payne driving. Then can have enough time to go out on Bawinkle if they pass him the ball. This allows one defender to check two guys. Well, you know that Bawinkle will never pump-fake & drive. That will never happen. Can't he add this to his arsenal to go along with his stellar D.

Not to harp on Bawinkle, prob a good kid. But my point is that Iowa is too slow & easy to defend because do not create space. They don't utilize the dribble well because they don't go to the hoop. I'm sick of seeing this lackluster O with the guards dribbling at the top of the key laterally to pass for someone to launch a 3.

The spacing flat out sucks. For geez sakes, watch UNI & just freeking copy them. Seriously, watch tape of them & just run exactly what they run. They seem to get spacing & pass more than dribble & when they dribble, they actually drive to the hoop & maybe dish. They use the dribble efficiently. They do this with mid-major players. They seem to be able to find an open shot when they need to.

I never intended to rant, but might as well get it off my chest. Another problem is that Iowa doesn't utilize the big men. I watch them & they never work the post or try to establish position, why, because that is not in Lick's interest. Watch them. They pretty much are just flowing with the O to spread the floor & don't really try to establish position on the block.

When is the last time Cougill posted up & got the ball down low & took a shot? Why get the ball down low. A team has to go down low in the Big 10 to at least try & get some fouls on the opponents big men. When is the last time Iowa fouled out an opponents big man? Iowa is a team that has to go to the line to get points due to lack of athleticism. Have to at least try to go inside to keep the D honest & put a little pressure on them. But no, Iowa's centers/forwards are always at the top of the key trying to set the pick & roll to free up a 3 bomb.

They actually only get a couple assists on a good roll a game. What is wrong with this? The whole damn O is always out of continuity & many times is a big CF of confusion. They have two guys trying to set a pick at the same time, etc. because they often are not on the same page. Then, someone launches a 3 bomb because the shot clock is down to 2 sec & now the big men are up at the top of the key & not in rebounding position because they were up there to try to pick.

Oh, when the 3 is missed, will prob lead to a transition bucket the the opposing team. The only way this current system will work if the team can has 4 guys on the court that can hit the 3 at least 35-40% of the time & that will not consistently win you games, especially in the Big 10. You may pull a shocker 1-2 times a year, but will not win consistently. Jared Cole has regressed more every year has been in the program.

Go back to Cole in his freshman year & remember how athletic he played & how he took it to the rack with authority prior to his injury. We only get to see glimpses of it a game now. I'm pretty sure it's not him but the system that he is playing in that limits him. They have to establish some kind of consistent inside game. Get the guys on the block & teach them how to establish position instead of just standing there to provide spacing for the offense. USE THEM!! Get fouls on the D's centers/forwards. For GEEZ sakes, MAKE THEM GUARD YOU!!!! Make the offense more dimentional. Sorry for the rant."
 
blkngoldUofI said:
I agree with the lack of a post game. Fuller has showed he has game down low but rarely gets a basket unless it's an offensive rebound. The thing about Bawinkle is that teams know he is 3 point shooter but tends to be open, you would think they would stay on him and the drive to the basket would be there, same thing could be said for Cougill. All the players need to work on their off hand, they should be able to take two dribbles and hit a shot coming off a screen. All Iowa players use their strong hand most of the time which is easy to defend. Setting better more meaningfull screens would be a help to. I don't think Cole has regressed, but like you said the system might be limiting him, he is a hard worker. The effort is there, they play pretty good defense, rebounding has come around but the offense, inbound plays, late game play calling are not so good.
Click to expand...

I agree with Cole & he has always been one of my favorites because he does go hard, but as you stated, my point is that they aren't utilizing his talents in the system he is playing in. I feel bad for the kid. He seriously is prob my favorite players on the team. Just seems like a good guy all around. Thanks for taking the time with my post & responding with a legitimate response. Once I got started it just got out of control & ended way too long.
 
parquet said:
Try this version. He says some interesting things.

"Let me preface this long post first by stating that I realize this is a young Iowa team. I have put this in perspective but still don't think this style of play is going to fly regardless of how experienced they would be. Would this system work with more athletic players?

Prob not much more because it doesn't allow the players to utilize their athleticism. This is what worries me. Is Licklighter's coaching limited to this one system or philosophy? That concerns me. Is he able to make in-game coaching changes or does he have tunnel vision to this one system?

Iowa's problem is that they don't have athetes (or very few) that can create space with the defender. When one cannot create space & only settle for 3 bombs, the team is one-dimensional. Bawinkle is completely one-dimensional. To have a player that only takes 3's & not too tough to guard. A guy can play off him about 12 ft & sag in the lane to spy on Gatens or Payne driving. Then can have enough time to go out on Bawinkle if they pass him the ball. This allows one defender to check two guys. Well, you know that Bawinkle will never pump-fake & drive. That will never happen. Can't he add this to his arsenal to go along with his stellar D.

Not to harp on Bawinkle, prob a good kid. But my point is that Iowa is too slow & easy to defend because do not create space. They don't utilize the dribble well because they don't go to the hoop. I'm sick of seeing this lackluster O with the guards dribbling at the top of the key laterally to pass for someone to launch a 3.

The spacing flat out sucks. For geez sakes, watch UNI & just freeking copy them. Seriously, watch tape of them & just run exactly what they run. They seem to get spacing & pass more than dribble & when they dribble, they actually drive to the hoop & maybe dish. They use the dribble efficiently. They do this with mid-major players. They seem to be able to find an open shot when they need to.

I never intended to rant, but might as well get it off my chest. Another problem is that Iowa doesn't utilize the big men. I watch them & they never work the post or try to establish position, why, because that is not in Lick's interest. Watch them. They pretty much are just flowing with the O to spread the floor & don't really try to establish position on the block.

When is the last time Cougill posted up & got the ball down low & took a shot? Why get the ball down low. A team has to go down low in the Big 10 to at least try & get some fouls on the opponents big men. When is the last time Iowa fouled out an opponents big man? Iowa is a team that has to go to the line to get points due to lack of athleticism. Have to at least try to go inside to keep the D honest & put a little pressure on them. But no, Iowa's centers/forwards are always at the top of the key trying to set the pick & roll to free up a 3 bomb.

They actually only get a couple assists on a good roll a game. What is wrong with this? The whole damn O is always out of continuity & many times is a big CF of confusion. They have two guys trying to set a pick at the same time, etc. because they often are not on the same page. Then, someone launches a 3 bomb because the shot clock is down to 2 sec & now the big men are up at the top of the key & not in rebounding position because they were up there to try to pick.

Oh, when the 3 is missed, will prob lead to a transition bucket the the opposing team. The only way this current system will work if the team can has 4 guys on the court that can hit the 3 at least 35-40% of the time & that will not consistently win you games, especially in the Big 10. You may pull a shocker 1-2 times a year, but will not win consistently. Jared Cole has regressed more every year has been in the program.

Go back to Cole in his freshman year & remember how athletic he played & how he took it to the rack with authority prior to his injury. We only get to see glimpses of it a game now. I'm pretty sure it's not him but the system that he is playing in that limits him. They have to establish some kind of consistent inside game. Get the guys on the block & teach them how to establish position instead of just standing there to provide spacing for the offense. USE THEM!! Get fouls on the D's centers/forwards. For GEEZ sakes, MAKE THEM GUARD YOU!!!! Make the offense more dimentional. Sorry for the rant."
Click to expand...


Thanks for cleaning it up. I seriously never meant it to be this long but it just got out of hand on work time. Appreciate it!!:)
 
I read it and it was a good post.

You just don't understand Lickliter's system and unfortunately neither do the players.

Apparently the system is so incredibly difficult to learn that the players just can't learn it in 1 or 2 years. The system takes as many as 3 or 4 years and some players can be in the system for 4 years (redshirt a 5th year) and STILL never learn the system proficiently because it is THAT difficult to learn.

BUT once they DO learn the system they can easily handle any team in the nation with 4 and 5 star players because the system will neutralize those teams so efficiently.

Coach just reminds the players and fans that everyone just needs to be patient for 5 to 9 years while numerous players go through the system because eventually he will find that core of players who will learn the system. At that point, look out for Iowa BB because Iowa BB will be back. The games will look very similar to today's games only slower and the scores will be in the 30's and 40's. That is when we will know we have reached nirvana.
 
NewMexHawk said:
I read it and it was a good post.

You just don't understand Lickliter's system and unfortunately neither do the players.

Apparently the system is so incredibly difficult to learn that the players just can't learn it in 1 or 2 years. The system takes as many as 3 or 4 years and some players can be in the system for 4 years (redshirt a 5th year) and STILL never learn the system proficiently because it is THAT difficult to learn.

BUT once they DO learn the system they can easily handle any team in the nation with 4 and 5 star players because the system will neutralize those teams so efficiently.

Coach just reminds the players and fans that everyone just needs to be patient for 5 to 9 years while numerous players go through the system because eventually he will find that core of players who will learn the system. At that point, look out for Iowa BB because Iowa BB will be back. The games will look very similar to today's games only slower and the scores will be in the 30's and 40's. That is when we will know we have reached nirvana.
Click to expand...

There is no system.
 
I agree that we don't get the ball into the post near enough. I think some of this falls on the guards. I can recall one time in the IL. game that Fuller had great position and Gatens had the opportunity for an entry pass but decided to hold on to it and wait for an on the ball screen. I sure hope that part of Licks system doesn't involve giving up an easy entry pass to a big man with good posisiton so we can clear him out to come up and set an on the ball screen.
 
ibahawkeye said:
I agree that we don't get the ball into the post near enough. I think some of this falls on the guards. I can recall one time in the IL. game that Fuller had great position and Gatens had the opportunity for an entry pass but decided to hold on to it and wait for an on the ball screen. I sure hope that part of Licks system doesn't involve giving up an easy entry pass to a big man with good posisiton so we can clear him out to come up and set an on the ball screen.
Click to expand...


That's what worries me is that it is just not part of the system to use the big men on the block. I see too many times Cougill & co just going to the block but not trying to establish position. They prob don't try because they know it is not going to do any good since it's not the "system" to throw it down in there. Next game, watch & notice how they just stand on the block then choose a time to set a pick at the top of the key.
 
There is no system. There is not a system in college that takes 3 years to grasp. When you have unathletic guys the system isn't the issue. They system will not work at this level...ask Barry Collier how the "Butler Way" worked for him in the B12. Ask Thad Matta and he will tell you he ditched it the minute he got to a big time program. You have to allow athletes to play in space. Then you have to have athletes that can create their own game in space...we have neither.
 
loesshillshawk said:
There is no system. There is not a system in college that takes 3 years to grasp. When you have unathletic guys the system isn't the issue. They system will not work at this level...ask Barry Collier how the "Butler Way" worked for him in the B12. Ask Thad Matta and he will tell you he ditched it the minute he got to a big time program. You have to allow athletes to play in space. Then you have to have athletes that can create their own game in space...we have neither.
Click to expand...


Oh, I agree with you. You can't take a bunch of set shooters & think you can spread the D at this level by launching 22 ft'ers. The defenders are too quick & can neutralize them by getting there before they can get a clean look off.

No decent center or power forward will ever come to Iowa if they watch this. No athletic player will come either if they realize they won't have a chance to get up & down the floor & showcase it. They won't come just to be a cogg in a plodding offense who's goal is to run time off the clock in a half-court offense. What we are left with are players every decent BCS school has passed up on. I think Lick's recruiting philosophy is to get these "shooters" that the others passed up on sec to their lack of atheticism. Problem is if the team is loaded with them they can be guarded because they cannot create space & drive.
 
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