The “talent” question

[mopkins]

MSU is led by 4 SOs and a FR
Michigan is led by 2 SRs, 2 JRs and a SO but they have the #13 ranked class in 2018
Nebraska is led by 1 SR, 3 JRs and a SO.
PSU is led by 1 SR, 1 JR and 3 SOs.
NW is led by 3 SRs and 2 JRs but they are bringing in the 20th ranked class in 2018
Maryland is led by 3 SOs and 2 FR.
Indiana is led by 2 SRs, 1 JR and 2 SOs but they have the 19th ranked class in 2018
All of these teams are ahead of us in the BIG conference standings and we've lost by double digits to every team except Michigan. Every single one of those teams are better than us now and either return their entire rosters or are bringing in better classes than we have coming in. It's not a recipe for conference improvement.

I never suggested it was. College teams/players can improve (or decline) drastically in short amounts of time. That's all I was saying. Look at Minnesota over the past 3 years.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I'll be curious to see what Nunge and Garza do this offseason. Freshman years tend to be wake-up calls for players who were used to dominating in high school. I still love Nunge's upside, and even if Garza just incrementally improves he's going to be a stud in a couple years.

It still doesn't address the glaring issues at PG and on defense though.

I’m not as convinced that Garza is going to be a stud. There are at least 4 underclassmen centers I would rank above him today, and wouldn’t be confident he passes them.

Ward
Watson
Harms
Fernando

Wesson from OSU probably right there as well.

 

[HawkGold]

I look at it as Pemsl has proven he can be an effective player at this level, regardless of his size. Bonzie Colson is a 6’5 power forward whose had tons of success at the D1 level.

Everything else is just kind of your thoughts, which you are entitled too.

Which is where we both are at. 6'5" with no outside shot and no dribbling ability.
You want to make this comparison? I thought you were being serious. You might make a comparison to Roger Powell, but he was used so differently and had I think 4 NBA players to play with.

We differ in opinion obviously.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Which is where we both are at. 6'5" with no outside shot and no dribbling ability.
You want to make this comparison? I thought you were being serious. You might make a comparison to Roger Powell, but he was used so differently and had I think 4 NBA players to play with.

I don’t understand how people like you read my post and think I’m comparing Cordell Pemsl to Bonzie Colson. I’m saying undersized players have proven they can compete at this level. Pemsl has proven he can be a quality role player at the P5 level. Colson has proven he can be a near All-American at this level. All that said I think calling Pemsl a D2 Player is a bit harsh.

 

[HawkGold]

I don’t understand how people like you read my post and think I’m comparing Cordell Pemsl to Bonzie Colson. I’m saying undersized players have proven they can compete at this level. Pemsl has proven he can be a quality role player at the P5 level. Colson has proven he can be a near All-American at this level. All that said I think calling Pemsl a D2 Player is a bit harsh.

No idea why you take things that way.
This video pretty much shows why he hasn't been effective. I also think D2 has some pretty good basketball as well as some D3 teams.
The things to watch.
1. He has to make odd angled shots to get them off over shorter people
2. He is slow, but he has to make sm F moves to get a shot off closer than what most small forwards do.

I just haven't seen it out of the kid. He will look better if players around him improve.

 

[mopkins]

I’m not as convinced that Garza is going to be a stud. There are at least 4 underclassmen centers I would rank above him today, and wouldn’t be confident he passes them.

Ward
Watson
Harms
Fernando

Wesson from OSU probably right there as well.

Isn't Nick Ward a Forward?

Regardless, Garza is never going to be a super athletic punisher like Bruno Fernando. Garza is going to be more the mold of Frank Kaminsky...a Center who can hit from range. Garza has hit 33% of his 3 attempts this year and his attempts are only going to go up next year. Hopefully his percentage goes up with it. If Garza can keep developing his shot from range he's going to be lethal on offense. A center who can hit 3s (and pass) opens up the offense like crazy.

Even if Garza just incrementally improves each season you're looking at a 15/10 guy his senior year. If this year is his ceiling, well then you have an 11/7 guy for the next 3 years. That aint bad either.

 

[Knight78]

Weiskamp - Top 50 recruit, could be Starter level but more likely Role player as a freshman possibliities. Where are the offers?

Joe signed in the early signing period this year. He has had offers (unless his parents have lied to me) from all the big boys and has politely turned them down for three years. When you say "No, thanks" often enough people tend not to ask any more.

 

[NikeHawk21]

No idea why you take things that way.
This video pretty much shows why he hasn't been effective. I also think D2 has some pretty good basketball as well as some D3 teams.
The things to watch.
1. He has to make odd angled shots to get them off over shorter people
2. He is slow, but he has to make sm F moves to get a shot off closer than what most small forwards do.

I just haven't seen it out of the kid. He will look better if players around him improve.

I’ve watched every Iowa basketball game for the last two years, I don’t need to watch a PTL video of Cordell. He had a rocky start to this year, which I think can be attributed to the emergence of Garza, which pushed Pemsl and other bigs further away from the basket. Again he’s played better as of late. Quick look at the stats he’s actually 3rd on the team in assists.

Bottom line to me is last year proved he can play at this level. By the way at 6’8/250 it’s not like he’s extremely undersized. He has to be “crafty” moreso due to his lack of athleticism. Again I’m not saying he’s a dominant player, but he’s proved he belongs at this level.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Isn't Nick Ward a Forward?

Regardless, Garza is never going to be a super athletic punisher like Bruno Fernando. Garza is going to be more the mold of Frank Kaminsky...a Center who can hit from range. Garza has hit 33% of his 3 attempts this year and his attempts are only going to go up next year. Hopefully his percentage goes up with it. If Garza can keep developing his shot from range he's going to be lethal on offense. A center who can hit 3s (and pass) opens up the offense like crazy.

Even if Garza just incrementally improves each season you're looking at a 15/10 guy his senior year. If this year is his ceiling, well then you have an 11/7 guy for the next 3 years. That aint bad either.

Numbers are just numbers. If he’s the 5th best player at his position in the conference I don’t consider that a “stud”.

 

[Knight78]

Flame away, but Wieskamp is way, way overblown. You guys who are paying attention to recruiting rankings are the same ones who pay attention to Mel Kiper. And please don’t bring up watching his film. He’s ringing up ridiculous stats because he’s playing high school juniors and seniors, of which probably 99.9% won’t even play community college ball, and his teammates do nothing but feed him all game long. There have to be 20 assists per game to Wieskamp. Big fish, small pond.

He’s supposedly ranked 50th in the country, but go take a look at the rest of the top 50. Just about all of those kids have 15, 20, 25 offers from top P5 schools. Wieskamp has 6 including Iowa, from ISU, UNI, Creighton, Nebraska, and Wisconsin. Not exactly tip top schools.

Trust me, college scouts and coaches know a hell of a lot more about what to look for in a recruit than a bunch of chumps at Rivals and 24/7. And don’t give me the crap about him not getting offers because he’s so hard core Iowa. That’s a load of manure; there are plenty of kids with 30 some offers who are committed already.

You're forgetting that his rankings are also based on invitational camps where only the top players in the country are invited. I suppose if you average 15-20 points in those camps (which he has done) you can score on anyone. He's also doing well in rebounding at those camps and his handles allow him to drive to the basket as well.

Joe would have 20 assists per game if he had teammates that could make 50% on layups... well, maybe not 20 assists but likely 10. The players on his team won't be playing at the next level, but in the conference? Are you kidding me? The MAC is a very good high school conference that turns out D1 players every year. Once in a while they turn out an excellent player, like Joe. I saw Ricky Davis play in high school at Davenport North. Ricky was a slightly better athlete than Joe (Ricky was a better athlete than a lot of NBA players) but his head was not all there.

Time will tell if Joe can do it night in and night out in the Big 10. But I'll say I believe he can.

 

[Knight78]

Who am I being too harsh on? Garza? He has to develop physically and get strength. That is not a Fran thing.

Baer? Every team has a catalyst that doesn't quite belong but can spark something in a short time. Other of these players are more athletic.

CM? You just don't see many players in the Big shoot like him. At best he's a 2 and shooting isn't his main things. He also loses height by his form.

Don't see anything else as arguable.

His form on shooting outside is much better than DJ Carton's. Carton shoots off his shoulder along side his head.

 

[mopkins]

Numbers are just numbers. If he’s the 5th best player at his position in the conference I don’t consider that a “stud”.

well...."best player" is subjective as all hell. Your boy Bruno Fernando plays almost the exact same minutes as Luka Garza...and Garza scores more points, gets more rebounds, blocks the same amount of shots, has more assists, commits less turnovers, and has a higher 2pt shooting percentage.

Why did you rank Fernando ahead of Garza when everything says Garza has had a better freshman season?

 

[kicker22]

Just my take on the evaluation of HS talent. All the kids can do is prove themselves against their opponents and on the AAU circuit night in and night out. They may become stars, they may not live up to the hype. With that said, totally my opinion, but what JW is doing at the varsity level his senior year and at this point deserves the hype. With that said there's definitely a learning curve going into D1 ball and I don't think it's fair to label him as a future star or someone that won't pan out and will be a role player at best. For now lets enjoy what he's doing and hope he's a difference maker. We can and will always have the opportunity to re-examine next year when we have something to go off of, but I just don't see what he can do now to prove himself at this stage in the game.

 

[HawkGold]

I’ve watched every Iowa basketball game for the last two years, I don’t need to watch a PTL video of Cordell. He had a rocky start to this year, which I think can be attributed to the emergence of Garza, which pushed Pemsl and other bigs further away from the basket. Again he’s played better as of late. Quick look at the stats he’s actually 3rd on the team in assists.

Bottom line to me is last year proved he can play at this level. By the way at 6’8/250 it’s not like he’s extremely undersized. He has to be “crafty” moreso due to his lack of athleticism. Again I’m not saying he’s a dominant player, but he’s proved he belongs at this level.

Anyone actually know how tall he really is? I'd say 6 5 and some change. I don't see him as 6 8.

I really don't dislike the player. Some of the critics hear are really hard on him about effort and lack of skill. I don't see a lack of effort. Skill.... not his biggest problem...pun intended.

He is heavier than he used to be which slows him down. What happened to his outside shot. As a soph in HS is was actually OK. It was oft low on release, but now never....

I had to laugh at your comment (in good humor) about Garza pushing bigs. I haven't seen him push anyone.

 

[HawkGold]

His form on shooting outside is much better than DJ Carton's. Carton shoots off his shoulder along side his head.

I think awkward shooting is something Fran likes.... just kidding but a lot of players and his sons look like they played Iowa Girls 6 on 6 for shooting. And I don't get that. Pem had an OK shot in earlier HS.

 

[HawkGold]

This is the best player I've ever seen as a recruit, either his soph season. It's Bates Diopp and most of the video is from one Holiday Tourney.


Here is #2 I've seen.as a soph.

 

[ohhawk]

It's old news but a couple of respectable guards would do this team well. Don't think we're missing that many pieces. They need quickness especially for D as well as someone that can free up Bohannon (and others) for more open shots at the other end. We have some talented shooters (especially when given some breathing room) with some more coming aboard but need to create more open shot opportunities that some decent guards can create.

Team has talent but the quickness element really hurts them. You can see the difference normally by just turning channels and watching other quality teams play. Most quality teams have quickness at the majority of positions.

Not big on Dailey or Pemsl's play thus far in their careers. I think another year can help Moss move higher and be more consistent. Baer is great as 6th man off the bench. Kriener is a developmental prospect at this stage. I'm good with the fortunes of most others looking ahead........a couple of quick ball handling guards please.

 

[NikeHawk21]

well...."best player" is subjective as all hell. Your boy Bruno Fernando plays almost the exact same minutes as Luka Garza...and Garza scores more points, gets more rebounds, blocks the same amount of shots, has more assists, commits less turnovers, and has a higher 2pt shooting percentage.

Why did you rank Fernando ahead of Garza when everything says Garza has had a better freshman season?

I’m not completely sold on Fernando yet actually, he’s got more upside than Garza with his combination of size, strength, and athleticism. The two matched up with one another once this year, Garza had 6 points and 1 rebound, Fernando had 21 and 7.

Garza is kind of a stat stuffer guy. Look at last game for example. He ended with 13/6, but realistically he was completely outplayed by Mike Watkins.

He will score a lot of points and get a lot of rebounds in his career, (some of that is by virtue of being the closest guy to the basket), but in order to become a stud, he’s going to have to do a lot more in the defensive end of the floor, not only controlling his matchup, but also protecting the rim. He has the potential to do it, but will have to improve to get there.

 

[SpiderRico]

When 75% of the current and future roster is a bunch of unathletic white dudes...the odds of all of a sudden becoming athletic is kind of a pipe dream...

 

[revkev73]

Perhaps a bigger question is...what kind of talent do we have for our coaches?

Fran...hasn't proven much to me...great at yelling and going psycho...talking about coaching defense a bit now (really, cool)...fundamentally inept teams for the most part.

How much talent do we have among the assistants? No one seems to be trying to steal them from Fran.

Perhaps we have below average coaching that is better fit for HS or JC...