The State of Iowa Basketball

[Northside Hawk]

Just to emphasize this point. Baer may not have been the best player on the team talent wise, but he was the engine that made the rest of the team go. Simplistic analysis of PPP with and without him on the court.

https://www.goiowaawesome.com/iowa-...s-suggests-that-nicholas-baer-was-really-good

He kept a lot of possessions alive with hustle plays and anticipation plays, tap-outs, offensive rebounds, on and on.

Of course he also kept a lot of possessions alive on the other end of the floor-for the other team. Especially his junior year when he played the three position too much.

 

[Adam]

Baer led our team in steals, blocked shots, and was third in rebounds. Don’t be fooled, just because he came off the bench doesn’t mean he’s not an extremely high quality player. Heck based on advanced statistics you could make the argument that Baer was the best player on the team last year.

Lol what do you call a guy who gets shit done without all the fancy tools that others have? I call that a hustle guy. Baer was the literal definition of this term to me.

The fact that he was that high statistically is a reflection of 2 main team issues. First is a lack of team wide fundamentals. Second and more disheartening is the issue of wide swings in team effort. When your hustle guy leads the team in multiple categories you aren't getting good enough play from your starters. If the starters played with the tenacity that Baer did. We would be a top B1G team.

Kriener is our new hustle guy. I like the young man, but I hope he doesn't lead a single stat category.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Lol what do you call a guy who gets shit done without all the fancy tools that others have? I call that a hustle guy. Baer was the literal definition of this term to me.

The fact that he was that high statistically is a reflection of 2 main team issues. First is a lack of team wide fundamentals. Second and more disheartening is the issue of wide swings in team effort. When your hustle guy leads the team in multiple categories you aren't getting good enough play from your starters. If the starters played with the tenacity that Baer did. We would be a top B1G team.

Kriener is our new hustle guy. I like the young man, but I hope he doesn't lead a single stat category.

You can lol all you want but I’m telling you I don’t agree with the premise of your last two posts.

Yes Baer is absolutely a hustle guy but he does have basketball talent. You don’t lead the team in block shots simply because you’re hustling you don’t lead the team in steals simply because your hustling. His anticipation, basketball IQ, his timing, his quick jumping, and strong hands were all factors in those things. It doesn’t always look the prettiest with Baer but he was a talented player.

Your prior post made it sound like we can just throw CJF in there if he hits some 3s plays some defense and hustles he will replace what Baer did. I very much disagree with that take but you are entitled to your opinion.

Again you could make an argument based on stats that Baer was the best player on our team last year, that doesn’t simply happen only because he hustles.

 

[dahlhawk]

Let me preface this with I have been an Iowa fan for a long time 60s however I have not always been a fan of the coaches at Iowa. Dick Shultz was a nice guy but a lousy coach, Alford was a potentially great coach but couldn't overcome the fact he was a Jerk. Lick (what can I say)
Not sure where McCaffrey fits on the spectrum but its not near the top. I have never been a fan. Why?
He is a bad recruiter. I think the last few days really bears that out. If you look at his years at Iowa you could arguably say he won one big recruiting battle. Tyler Cook. And as we in hindsight evaluate that while Tyler was talented and athletic and a good kid maybe other schools recognized he would never shoot the ball well? There are others like Weiskamp who is and will be a good player but Iowa recruited him not McCaffrey. I see on the board all these 4 and 5 star players we are recruiting ex Foster but we aren't going to get any of those. Why would they come to Iowa to play for McCaffrey? In the end we go out and recruit Tousant (sp) who Fran describes as a hard nosed player! We have some "good" hard nosed players but not the kind of players that get you to a higher level (sweet 16) Fran can't recruit
As a coach I think he probably was a decent mid major coach but his time at Iowa hasn't won him any coach of the year consideration. I know we are not a great athletic team but our defense is a pretty good example of Fran's coaching. I think even UNI with their talent level plays better defense
Finally Fran is not a great representative at times of the University I graduated from, but at least he hasn't broken a chair in a while

So where is Iowa basketball under Fran McCaffrey? I think we will periodically battle for first division finishes and a trip to the Tournament with a possible win in the tournament like this last year. But that is most likely the pinnacle of a McCaffrey coached Iowa team. Maybe that's good enough? Sure hope not

Fran's biggest problem has been going after high profile players and not getting them. He basically has become the lead recruiter for better programs. Fran identifies great players before others, recruits them, and watches them get poached by other schools. I have no doubt that if Fran got some of these players Iowa would be a consistent winner.
Frankly, I've been sick of Fran offering guys that are never going to Iowa. Let's go after players that want to go to Iowa, or get a closer who can recruit legit players.

 

[thedukeofearl]

Baer led our team in steals, blocked shots, and was third in rebounds. Don’t be fooled, just because he came off the bench doesn’t mean he’s not an extremely high quality player. Heck based on advanced statistics you could make the argument that. Baer was the best player on the team last year

The same argument could be made about his sophomore year also

 

[morley10]

Fran's biggest problem has been going after high profile players and not getting them. He basically has become the lead recruiter for better programs. Fran identifies great players before others, recruits them, and watches them get poached by other schools. I have no doubt that if Fran got some of these players Iowa would be a consistent winner.
Frankly, I've been sick of Fran offering guys that are never going to Iowa. Let's go after players that want to go to Iowa, or get a closer who can recruit legit players.

Or do what Ralph Miller did, hit the Juco and bring in one or two per year. Also target players overseas.

 

[Adam]

You can lol all you want but I’m telling you I don’t agree with the premise of your last two posts.

Yes Baer is absolutely a hustle guy but he does have basketball talent. You don’t lead the team in block shots simply because you’re hustling you don’t lead the team in steals simply because your hustling. His anticipation, basketball IQ, his timing, his quick jumping, and strong hands were all factors in those things. It doesn’t always look the prettiest with Baer but he was a talented player.

Your prior post made it sound like we can just throw CJF in there if he hits some 3s plays some defense and hustles he will replace what Baer did. I very much disagree with that take but you are entitled to your opinion.

Again you could make an argument based on stats that Baer was the best player on our team last year, that doesn’t simply happen only because he hustles.

Ok so we established that Baer is a hustle guy. So now the question to debate is if in fact Baer was the most talented guy on the team. I'm assuming that from your protest to my statement that you believe he was. While I believe that more talented players simply aren't playing as hard as Baer. Do I have the premise of the argument correct?

 

[PCHawk]

Ok so we established that Baer is a hustle guy. So now the question to debate is if in fact Baer was the most talented guy on the team. I'm assuming that from your protest to my statement that you believe he was. While I believe that more talented players simply aren't playing as hard as Baer. Do I have the premise of the argument correct?

Baer has certain talents that are probably the best on the team. His talents aren't the type of talents that wouldn't convince most people to label him the most talented player. But the talents he does have are crucial for being an elite player. It's just more common to see his talents in elite arhletes, which he clearly is not. For example, the ability to push yourself as hard as he does is a talent that most dont have. So to answer the question if Baer is the most talented, conventional wisdom says no way. But when you really break it down, the answer is possibly.

 

[Adam]

Baer has certain talents that are probably the best on the team. His talents aren't the type of talents that wouldn't convince most people to label him the most talented player. But the talents he does have are crucial for being an elite player. It's just more common to see his talents in elite arhletes, which he clearly is not. For example, the ability to push yourself as hard as he does is a talent that most dont have. So to answer the question if Baer is the most talented, conventional wisdom says no way. But when you really break it down, the answer is possibly.

I think you might be overthinking it. Baer is an awesome guy and was a great hawk, but I think the conventional wisdom here is the right wisdom. We had more talented and athletic players that simply didn't give us the same effort. Baer was pivotal for this team because his play was often a momentum shift. Nothing about the narrative that Baer is a hustle guy takes away from his accomplishment. It also doesn't change the fact that our actual scholarship recruited 3 and 4 star players should be able to do the same things that Baer did if they tried hard enough.

The only difference that I can make from your perspective is that you are attributing Baer with a cerebral advantage over other players. I suppose it's possible, but it just seems more likely that Baer tried harder and stayed focused every second he was on the court.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Ok so we established that Baer is a hustle guy. So now the question to debate is if in fact Baer was the most talented guy on the team. I'm assuming that from your protest to my statement that you believe he was. While I believe that more talented players simply aren't playing as hard as Baer. Do I have the premise of the argument correct?

I do not believe Baer was the most talented guy on the team no.

I think the value that he brought to the team is going to be very tough to replace.

 

[WindsorHawk]

I think Fran is very good at evaluating young talent. He gets in on a lot of guys early. When a blue blood comes calling 2 or 3 years later the player goes that route. Why wouldn’t they? When the blue blood doesn’t enter the picture...White for example...we get our guy. The exception is the kid from Iowa that wants to be a Hawk.

Moss and Cook had talent for sure. But neither was very good on defense. And neither had a high basketball IQ...IMO. It’s unknown whether we gain enough on defense to offset the loss on offense IMO.

 

[trj]

Baers' contributions for this team will be missed, no doubt. The fact that he was so much better coming off bench than being a starter tells what I need to know. Valuable role player? 1000%. Shear talent? I don't know, I think I lean toward @Adam in this debate.

 

[Adam]

I do not believe Baer was the most talented guy on the team no.

I think the value that he brought to the team is going to be very tough to replace.

Oh I get it now. You took objection to me saying CJ could be Baer's replacement.

Let me explain better. CJ is not going to replace Baer's intangibles. Certainly not right away. However he can fill Baer's roll and do some similar stuff for the team. It's the idea of position cohesion. When 1 guy moves on the next guy has a similar role. Doesn't mean they will be as effective. It's not always required that they are as effective.

CJ will need to be a good 3pt shooter, a solid rebounder, and at least be adequate defensively to Iowa's piss poor standard of defense. That is the role that Baer had. Baer got really good in that role and CJ might not be, but he doesn't need to be as good as Baer in that role. As long as he meets the minimum requirement he will serve his purpose.

Replacing Baer's hustle and energy can and likely will come from other positions. Kriener and Pemsel being the most likely candidates.

Hopefully this clarifies our difference of opinion.

 

[StanziUSA]

I always find that argument funny. Nobody ever gives credit for landing and Aaron White, for sticking with Peter Jok, when nobody else did, Olaseni turned out pretty nice, Garza looks like a quality recruit.

If it was as bad as they say Iowa would have totally sucked every year under Fran.

Yea sweet, how many Big ten titles, how many sweet 16s, how many first round draft picks, how many Big ten semifinals appearances even, how many All Americans, these projects are great. But I’m a fan not a coach I like wins and a coach that likes his fans.

I don’t give two shits if he’s had a couple of good Stories. How come with all that talent above the best we have seen is being ranked 4th in the country only to end up being a 7 seed in a tournament? ONE WORD COACHING

 

[NikeHawk21]

Yea sweet, how many Big ten titles, how many sweet 16s, how many first round draft picks, how many Big ten semifinals appearances even, how many All Americans, these projects are great. But I’m a fan not a coach I like wins and a coach that likes his fans.

I don’t give two shits if he’s had a couple of good Stories. How come with all that talent above the best we have seen is being ranked 4th in the country only to end up being a 7 seed in a tournament? ONE WORD COACHING

I want Fran to have better results. Heck I’ve called for him to be fired.

I was addressing the OP. He’s not a terrible recruiter and a terrible coach. If he was we would have been a bottom feeder every year and that’s not the case. I’m simply being fair. We’ve made the dance 4 of the last 6 years. That’s decent for Iowa b-ball standards. But I along with many other rightfully want to see more out of this program.

 

[Tierney]

Baer was a good player, but he was just a former walk-on. I don't hear anyone saying he will go overseas and make a ton of money. How is it people think he will be so hard to replace. Cook was a good player too, and he probably will go overseas and make a ton of money (which I hope he does), but to say a quality division one power forward can't replace him doesn't make a lot of sense. Nunge, Pemsl, and Fredrick were all highly respected high school basketball players. Nunge was runner up for player of the year in his state, and he has grown around three inches and put on forty or fifty pounds since he was a high school senior. They should be fun to watch next year.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Baers' contributions for this team will be missed, no doubt. The fact that he was so much better coming off bench than being a starter tells what I need to know. Valuable role player? 1000%. Shear talent? I don't know, I think I lean toward @Adam in this debate.

Baer was a good player, but he was just a former walk-on. I don't hear anyone saying he will go overseas and make a ton of money. How is it people think he will be so hard to replace. Cook was a good player too, and he probably will go overseas and make a ton of money (which I hope he does), but to say a quality division one power forward can't replace him doesn't make a lot of sense. Nunge, Pemsl, and Fredrick were all highly respected high school basketball players. Nunge was runner up for player of the year in his state, and he has grown around three inches and put on forty or fifty pounds since he was a high school senior. They should be fun to watch next year.

It’s easy to discount Baer because he was a former walk on, or because he played better coming off the bench. Here are a couple interesting statistical tidbits that show just what Baer brought to Iowa basketball.

In 2017, Baer’s Sophomore year “He became the only Division I player over the past 25 years to amass 250 points, 45 steals, 45 3-pointers and 40 blocked shots in a single season and was honored as the Big Ten’s Sixth Man of the Year.”

For his career “He is one of only five Iowa players ever to accumulate 500 points, 500 rebounds, 100 blocked shots and 100 steals in their careers. The others — Ryan Bowen, Michael Payne, Greg Stokes and Acie Earl — all started more than 80 games. Baer has started 32.

He also has more than 100 3-point field goals. Those other four players had 20 between them.”

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Shocking that a player that was so easy to defend got voted 2nd team all conference by the coaches.

Is what I state above not true? What point would you like to debate?

 

[Adam]

It’s easy to discount Baer because he was a former walk on, or because he played better coming off the bench. Here are a couple interesting statistical tidbits that show just what Baer brought to Iowa basketball.

In 2017, Baer’s Sophomore year “He became the only Division I player over the past 25 years to amass 250 points, 45 steals, 45 3-pointers and 40 blocked shots in a single season and was honored as the Big Ten’s Sixth Man of the Year.”

For his career “He is one of only five Iowa players ever to accumulate 500 points, 500 rebounds, 100 blocked shots and 100 steals in their careers. The others — Ryan Bowen, Michael Payne, Greg Stokes and Acie Earl — all started more than 80 games. Baer has started 32.

He also has more than 100 3-point field goals. Those other four players had 20 between them.”

It's looking to me as if your hang up is feeling that Baer is being slighted here. I can't speak for others, but I personally am making no slight. I don't think any one player currently is going to give us exactly what Baer did. As for the role that Baer filled well that's easy enough to replace. The production is not likely to be equal out of the gate. If the starters pick up their game we will not need a 6th man to be our glue guy. So no I don't think we are reloading a Baer, but I also don't think that having a Baer is the only way to win.

 

[trj]

It's looking to me as if your hang up is feeling that Baer is being slighted here. I can't speak for others, but I personally am making no slight. I don't think any one player currently is going to give us exactly what Baer did. As for the role that Baer filled well that's easy enough to replace. The production is not likely to be equal out of the gate. If the starters pick up their game we will not need a 6th man to be our glue guy. So no I don't think we are reloading a Baer, but I also don't think that having a Baer is the only way to win.

I'm not slighting Baer at all. Tom Brady isn't the most talented QB ever or even in his generation. By making that statement it doesn't take away from his greatness, his stats or any of that. On a much smaller scale that is how I feel about Baer.

With the exception of maybe the 86-87 team, Baer would have had a role(and a significant one) on every Iowa team the last 35 years. That's how strongly I feel about what he brings to a team. So when I question his "pure" talent it is not a dig at him.