The general fan base doesn’t demand it.

[1977Hawkeye]

Very well said. I think Fran is more or less Mr. Davis light...similar but missing the Big Accomplishments that Mr. Davis had (Elite 8, Sweet 16s).
I still say Fran's biggest accomplishment at Iowa is lifting the program out of the grave that Alford killed and Licklighter buried.

Can't fire the guy/should not fire the guy at this time......

But, if Fran walked tomorrow, I would not lose sleep over it. I don't like him like I did Mr. Davis, but he is serviceable. But, I also think we have seen our peak with him (unfortunately hope I'm wrong) and I wonder how long will the general public will ride this train....especially if sub Mr. Davis levels would become more frequent?

Agree totally with all of that. If Fran's results drop off, then yeah, I'd definitely change my tune about moving on. If he were to leave, I wouldn't be crushed, either. If he did leave after this year for example, I feel like the program is at least on fairly sound footing, unlike after Lick was canned. Hopefully the job would be more appealing to the next coach. Fran did a great job of breathing some life back into this thing.

As for Davis, yeah, his biggest accolades were mainly due to what he inherited, but he still had to coach the guys to that point, so I still have to give him some credit for it. I grew up with Tom Davis as a kid, so some of it is nostalgia for sure, but he was a good guy, good coach, and his teams were fun to watch, even if a little maddening at times (similar to Fran's teams I guess LOL).

You may be right about the general public. Things can start to feel stale. Just like Davis. Is history repeating itself?

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Agree totally with all of that. If Fran's results drop off, then yeah, I'd definitely change my tune about moving on. If he were to leave, I wouldn't be crushed, either. If he did leave after this year for example, I feel like the program is at least on fairly sound footing, unlike after Lick was canned. Hopefully the job would be more appealing to the next coach. Fran did a great job of breathing some life back into this thing.

As for Davis, yeah, his biggest accolades were mainly due to what he inherited, but he still had to coach the guys to that point, so I still have to give him some credit for it. I grew up with Tom Davis as a kid, so some of it is nostalgia for sure, but he was a good guy, good coach, and his teams were fun to watch, even if a little maddening at times (similar to Fran's teams I guess LOL).

You may be right about the general public. Things can start to feel stale. Just like Davis. Is history repeating itself?

And that is the rub isn't it? History repeating itself. The one thing I would hope is that if Fran was ever on the chopping block, the AD would let him go that same year.....no lame duck situation. Mr. Davis made Bowlsby look like an absolute fool with a Sweet 16 run....and then he didn't even have the balls to change his mind (and Ego) and re-negotiate Davis's contract. Though I'm sure Bowlsby thought he had it made with landing Alford...wrong again Bob.

I would also hope that is would be obvious to not only people like us on this board (who probably follow Iowa sports more than the average fan) but also to the average fan that it would be time to move on. Carver is a ghost town for one.

I see Fran is 62 years old. Including this year and going back 4 years, Fran will at least have his program in the NCAA tournament 3 out of 5 years. That meets my standard....at least 3 out of 5 years dancing (I use to think 3 out of 4 years, but I have softened my stance there).

So, after this year (and of course we have to let this year play out and see where it goes), I think things can start getting interesting. What will the next 5 years bring? Will Iowa be in the NCAA tournament a majority of that time? Will there be any special runs?

How would people feel if he only made the tournament 1 or 2 times (and no big runs) in that span and the rest NITish? Would that be good enough approaching the age of 67? I'm guessing that would be good enough for Barta if Carver was at least somewhat decently attended in the conference portion of the season.

Personally, I think things could get bad for Fran in the next 5 year span if the following situations were to happen:

-He has zero significant NCAA tournament runs (Sweet 16 or higher)
along with 1 or 2 NCAA appearances, but the other years or most of them are sub .500 years with no post-season.
-No NCCA tournament appearances in 5 years.
-The majority are sub .500 seasons with maybe an NIT or two to show for.


Of course, timing of success is also a factor. If Fran's teams flop for 3 years, but then rebound and get 2 NCAAs on the backend, Fran/Barta could spin that. Having success on the back-end is probably better than on the front-end assuming that front-end success is not a significant run in the NCAAs (or a Big Ten Regular Season Title).



I don't think this is likely to happen, but I think that could possibly do it with damaging enough fan support. And, I think that is the main key is fan support at Carver, especially during the conference portion of the season.

 

[PCHawk]

I'll throw out some categories for coaches. Maybe you guys can add some and say where you think Fran is.

1 - coach is so good you do whatever you can to keep him.

2 - coach so good enough that you don't even sniff around for another coach but won't bend over backwards to keep.

3 - coach is good enough to keep but you kinda want to sniff around for someone better and would replace with a homerun hire.

4 - you have regular talks with the coach about needing to improve to keep his job and his leash is short.

5 - you are willing to fire him and start a job search after.

I think Davis was a 3 and that's exactly what happened to him. We found "a home run" hire and made the move perhaps faster than Davis deserved.

I put Fran right between a 2 and a 3. Probably lean closer to a 2. If we stumble upon the next big name coach (especially if he had Iowa ties) it would be ok to pull the trigger. But it would have to be a "stumble upon" situation because I'm not even sure Barta should be asking questions. I understand people who think he's a straight up 3, but I don't get thinking he's a 4 at all. I think it's downright stupid to think he's a 5.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

I'll throw out some categories for coaches. Maybe you guys can add some and say where you think Fran is.

1 - coach is so good you do whatever you can to keep him.

2 - coach so good enough that you don't even sniff around for another coach but won't bend over backwards to keep.

3 - coach is good enough to keep but you kinda want to sniff around for someone better and would replace with a homerun hire.

4 - you have regular talks with the coach about needing to improve to keep his job and his leash is short.

5 - you are willing to fire him and start a job search after.

I think Davis was a 3 and that's exactly what happened to him. We found "a home run" hire and made the move perhaps faster than Davis deserved.

I put Fran right between a 2 and a 3. Probably lean closer to a 2. If we stumble upon the next big name coach (especially if he had Iowa ties) it would be ok to pull the trigger. But it would have to be a "stumble upon" situation because I'm not even sure Barta should be asking questions. I understand people who think he's a straight up 3, but I don't get thinking he's a 4 at all. I think it's downright stupid to think he's a 5.

I agree exactly, between a 2 and 3...but closer to 2.

I would consider Fran to be a Love/Hate situation. Not hate like Alford, but I think the shine off the penny is gone and the high admiration for his intelligent post-game comments is in the rear-view window. I also think he can come off as somewhat of a dick from time to time in his pressers. I don't really like the guy, but I don't hate him like Alford. But, I do appreciate that he is far more accepting of the Hawkeye Culture compared to Alfraud and Lackluster. He is adequate at running a competitive program compared to those two failures.

But from a business perspective, at this time, he is the case where if you had the option of picking up 20,000 dollars on the corner, or leaving it there (but it will be gone when you try to go back for it) with the chance to pick up 100,000 dollars around the other corner.....you take the 20,000.

Fran has kept the program reasonably competitive. Another good, or pretty good, but not great situation. And, and I still blame Bowlsby for this, the shadow of Mr. Davis still hangs over this program. You don't want to run off a coach for the 2nd time who is keeping the Iowa program competitive.

I think Barta knows this and he already has one failed hire on his hands. Barta is going to be really gun-shy on this.

But, and this is my opinion, but I also think we seen the best Fran has to offer. If he ever leaves on his own while he is still in good-standing (like if he left after this year), we avoid the PR problem and can get somewhat giddy looking for a possible upgrade.

So I think we are kind of stuck with this high scoring/no defense mule for now.

 

[ryno]

Iowa is due for a number of retirements in the next few years including Barta, fran, Kirk. All have done reasonably well but I can’t say I would be sad if any/all left. I know many people ( long time fans) who feel as I do.

 

[InGoodCo]

People wishing away Iowa's football coach who's having the best run in school history are my favorite Hawkeye fans.

 

[Fryowa]

People wishing away Iowa's football coach who's having the best run in school history are my favorite Hawkeye fans.

They’re living in a huge glass house and don’t even know it.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I'll always refer to the bell cow of fan bitching. Badger fans who wanted Bo Ryan gone for losing the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.

Show me another coach who will get that school to back to back final fours. I'll wait for a response. Like forever. Because a major league pitcher will break Johnny VanderMeer's record of two consecutive no hitters before a Badger coach does that again.

 

[PCHawk]

I agree exactly, between a 2 and 3...but closer to 2.

I would consider Fran to be a Love/Hate situation. Not hate like Alford, but I think the shine off the penny is gone and the high admiration for his intelligent post-game comments is in the rear-view window. I also think he can come off as somewhat of a dick from time to time in his pressers. I don't really like the guy, but I don't hate him like Alford. But, I do appreciate that he is far more accepting of the Hawkeye Culture compared to Alfraud and Lackluster. He is adequate at running a competitive program compared to those two failures.

But from a business perspective, at this time, he is the case where if you had the option of picking up 20,000 dollars on the corner, or leaving it there (but it will be gone when you try to go back for it) with the chance to pick up 100,000 dollars around the other corner.....you take the 20,000.

Fran has kept the program reasonably competitive. Another good, or pretty good, but not great situation. And, and I still blame Bowlsby for this, the shadow of Mr. Davis still hangs over this program. You don't want to run off a coach for the 2nd time who is keeping the Iowa program competitive.

I think Barta knows this and he already has one failed higher on his hands. Barta is going to be really gun-shy on this.

But, and this is my opinion, but I also think we seen the best Fran has to offer. If he ever leaves on his own while he is still in good-standing (like if he left after this year), we avoid the PR problem and can get somewhat giddy looking for a possible upgrade.

So I think we are kind of stuck with this high scoring/no defense mule for now.

My biggest criteria for how a season went is seed in NCAA tournament. We were a 2 last year so I agree that will probably be as high as he gets. But that doesn't mean he can't go on bigger tournament runs.

He also seems to be recruiting better lately. He has his best point guard recruit coming in, which is what most people say we need.

I know people like to say if we can't do it with the national player of the year, we never will. But truth is, Luka was the best scorer in the country, but he wasn't necessarily the best all around player. He was unfortunately not the best on defense. If Keegan stays at another year, he might be considered better than Garza on the hawkeye history list. Imagine if the Murray's didn't develope late and never went to prep school. You don't think Fran's ceiling would be higher if you could have this year's Keegan on last year's team?

 

[HaydenHawk56]

My biggest criteria for how a season went is seed in NCAA tournament. We were a 2 last year so I agree that will probably be as high as he gets. But that doesn't mean he can't go on bigger tournament runs.

He also seems to be recruiting better lately. He has his best point guard recruit coming in, which is what most people say we need.

I know people like to say if we can't do it with the national player of the year, we never will. But truth is, Luka was the best scorer in the country, but he wasn't necessarily the best all around player. He was unfortunately not the best on defense. If Keegan stays at another year, he might be considered better than Garza on the hawkeye history list. Imagine if the Murray's didn't develope late and never went to prep school. You don't think Fran's ceiling would be higher if you could have this year's Keegan on last year's team?

That would have been great to have this year's version of Keegan on last year's team....and a difference making point guard at any point in time a Fran coached team.

I hope he can make a significant tourney run. I think that would buy him more deserved time here and would ease a number of concerns.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Maybe another question to be posed on this topic of Fran is this (extension of PC's post):

I think most on this board here would say firing Fran would be a wrong move. So, if Fran decided to leave after this year to go back East or somewhere, how happy would you be?

Let's also assume this year ends no different than we see out of most Fran years. How happy would you be if Fran called it a day here at Iowa?


I would say thank you Fran for the rebuild and helping the program to be on solid footing. But, I would also say the program would be freed of a slow growing black mold and family nepotism (although I have liked some of the things I have seen out of Patrick this year, he had made improvements and is healthier). I would welcome the change, but be cautiously optimistic considering Austin Powers (Barta) would still be the guy making the hire.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I'll throw out some categories for coaches. Maybe you guys can add some and say where you think Fran is.

1 - coach is so good you do whatever you can to keep him.

2 - coach so good enough that you don't even sniff around for another coach but won't bend over backwards to keep.

3 - coach is good enough to keep but you kinda want to sniff around for someone better and would replace with a homerun hire.

4 - you have regular talks with the coach about needing to improve to keep his job and his leash is short.

5 - you are willing to fire him and start a job search after.

I think Davis was a 3 and that's exactly what happened to him. We found "a home run" hire and made the move perhaps faster than Davis deserved.

I put Fran right between a 2 and a 3. Probably lean closer to a 2. If we stumble upon the next big name coach (especially if he had Iowa ties) it would be ok to pull the trigger. But it would have to be a "stumble upon" situation because I'm not even sure Barta should be asking questions. I understand people who think he's a straight up 3, but I don't get thinking he's a 4 at all. I think it's downright stupid to think he's a 5.

Yep, I was reading that, thinking that I'm about a 2.5 on your list. I'd make a move ONLY if there was a "can't miss" (Is there such a thing?) hire lined up.

It's easy to say now, but I was never all that enamored about all the Steve Alford rumors we were hearing in 1999. Mainly because he had never even won the MVC. IIRC it was a handful of 2nd/3rd place finishes. I just wasn't all that impressed, but I warmed up to it after he took SWMS to the Sweet 16, but that Sweet 16 was just 2 games. I like Fran's Siena teams having won the conference multiple times - the sustained regular season success. Maybe coincidence, but Fran has turned out better than Alford IMO, too. I just like to think we're in better hands with Fran. I doubt many would argue with me on that.

Never is a long time, but yeah, it would take a situation where the planets align with the right coach for me as an AD to even consider it at this time.

Man, it really would be Tom Davis all over again.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I'll always refer to the bell cow of fan bitching. Badger fans who wanted Bo Ryan gone for losing the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.

Show me another coach who will get that school to back to back final fours. I'll wait for a response. Like forever. Because a major league pitcher will break Johnny VanderMeer's record of two consecutive no hitters before a Badger coach does that again.

That's insane. I'd kill to have the type of results Bo Ryan delivered there. Most programs would, in fact. They were elite those couple of years with Kaminsky, etc. Not to mention all the other years of making the Sweet 16 or better, conference titles, etc.

 

[Northside Hawk]

That's insane. I'd kill to have the type of results Bo Ryan delivered there. Most programs would, in fact. They were elite those couple of years with Kaminsky, etc. Not to mention all the other years of making the Sweet 16 or better, conference titles, etc.

Their B1G championship game vs Sparty in 2015, won by Wisconsin in OT, was the best conference game I've seen in at least a decade. Both teams absolutely leaving it all out there. Then they somehow refocused in time to make the final four that year.

 

[PCHawk]

That would have been great to have this year's version of Keegan on last year's team....and a difference making point guard at any point in time a Fran coached team.

I hope he can make a significant tourney run. I think that would buy him more deserved time here and would ease a number of concerns.

He was Marcus Paige away from an easy Big 10 title and a possible 1 seed/national championship run. Had Fran been at Iowa for a few years already, it's possible he could have landed him.

 

[PCHawk]

Maybe another question to be posed on this topic of Fran is this (extension of PC's post):

I think most on this board here would say firing Fran would be a wrong move. So, if Fran decided to leave after this year to go back East or somewhere, how happy would you be?

Let's also assume this year ends no different than we see out of most Fran years. How happy would you be if Fran called it a day here at Iowa?


I would say thank you Fran for the rebuild and helping the program to be on solid footing. But, I would also say the program would be freed of a slow growing black mold and family nepotism (although I have liked some of the things I have seen out of Patrick this year, he had made improvements and is healthier). I would welcome the change, but be cautiously optimistic considering Austin Powers (Barta) would still be the guy making the hire.

I would be pretty bummed if Fran left. I really think he's building something big here with the way his best player on the team is routinely 1st team conference. If Keegan can finish a huge year (preferably 2 more huge years) it could really open the flood gates for recruits.

He's also making in state recruiting a priority and it sure seems like the state has really picked up as far as high end recruits go.

One last thing is I think Connor has held back our ceiling a little bit over the last 5 years or so. It sucks to say, but between negative recruiting that is almost certainly happening with 2 sons on the team and the issues of a father giving the benefit of doubt when giving minutes to his sons (a natural issue that pretty much all dads would have) I think Fran could have fielded better teams over the time Connor has been here. That's an issue that he won't have much longer. By the time the youngest son gets here, hopefully we are really rolling and can be set up perfectly for a coaching hire.

 

[PCHawk]

Yep, I was reading that, thinking that I'm about a 2.5 on your list. I'd make a move ONLY if there was a "can't miss" (Is there such a thing?) hire lined up.

It's easy to say now, but I was never all that enamored about all the Steve Alford rumors we were hearing in 1999. Mainly because he had never even won the MVC. IIRC it was a handful of 2nd/3rd place finishes. I just wasn't all that impressed, but I warmed up to it after he took SWMS to the Sweet 16, but that Sweet 16 was just 2 games. I like Fran's Siena teams having won the conference multiple times - the sustained regular season success. Maybe coincidence, but Fran has turned out better than Alford IMO, too. I just like to think we're in better hands with Fran. I doubt many would argue with me on that.

Never is a long time, but yeah, it would take a situation where the planets align with the right coach for me as an AD to even consider it at this time.

Man, it really would be Tom Davis all over again.

I was all pumped up for Alford lol. Especially after his very first game at Iowa. I also put a lot more stock in regular season success than I do a random tournament run.

 

[trj]

imo, it is easier than ever for a non blue blood to make a deep run in the tournament. I am assuming Fran will be around until all of his kids are out of the household. So yeah, sometime in the near future Fran will make it to the 2nd weekend. As long as the program doesn't crater I am okay with that.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I was all pumped up for Alford lol. Especially after his very first game at Iowa. I also put a lot more stock in regular season success than I do a random tournament run.

I was right there with you after that Uconn win in NYC lol. At that point, it looked like we had a heckuva coach. Just wait till he gets his recruits......... There were a few bright spots in his tenure, but too few and far between. All the off-court drama aside, he was pretty average.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

imo, it is easier than ever for a non blue blood to make a deep run in the tournament. I am assuming Fran will be around until all of his kids are out of the household. So yeah, sometime in the near future Fran will make it to the 2nd weekend. As long as the program doesn't crater I am okay with that.

I'm hoping it ends up for Fran like Lisa Bluder. If you look at her tenure, it was a lot of 1st/2nd round NCAA appearances for many years, much like Fran. The past 5-7 years we're seeing more Sweet 16/Elite 8. I don't follow the women's side as close but it seems Bluder has built some momentum.

Lisa Bluder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org