The Fran Conundrum

[SheagleHawk]

I am literally sick over this season. I have watched pretty much every Iowa basketball game since the mid 80's. The good years, the bad years.... all of it. But honestly, this is Fran's first "bad" season...since he dug us out of where it was and it's BAD. Unacceptable. I am not trying to say it's not. Last season wasn't good either, but it definitely wasn't "bad". .... and Hawkeye fans are completely turning on him. I get it. I really do. I am fed up too, but that just seems quick to me. Even in the age of instant gratification in sports. It also seems quick to just dump on all of the players, all of his recruits, his kids... all of em because of it.

that's just MY opinion.

People are turning on him bc it's the same deficiencies every single year. Shit defense and a pg who should ge playing DII ball. And with no pg coming in next year, and Fran rotating 11 guys like this is a 5th grade AAU team there is literally zero chance of improving to the point that should he considered a minimum (making or being very close to making the tourney). Fran is in his 8th flippin year at an all time top 25 program. Fran can't recruit outside the state of Iowa worth a crap. What gives you any hope with Fran at the helm?

 

[InGoodCo]

Will Fran change his coaching philosophy that he has had since he’s been here and only play the top guys? How will our perimeter defense improve to a level that’s even serviceable? Who will be able to create for themselves off the dribble? How will we be a good interior defensive team with the same players that make us awful in that regard this year? I am a big believer in player improvement from year to year, but with what we have in the fold for next year, I just don’t see how we make the tournament barring a minor miracle. Show me how/ why I should believe.

Because Iowa missed the NCAA last season by 1 game with a better guard play last season. What has changed? No Jok. They bring in Connor, Joe W and Frederick next season.. all guards. Jordan, Moss and Dailey will be a year older and we have a lot of talent in our bigs. I really believe that if this team had another competent G ...PG, or SG that we'd be better this season. Maybe not undefeated better, or world beaters, but we wouldn't look like we do now. I don't think it would take even a minor miracle to be better next season.

 

[InGoodCo]

People are turning on him bc it's the same deficiencies every single year. Shit defense and a pg who should ge playing DII ball. And with no pg coming in next year, and Fran rotating 11 guys like this is a 5th grade AAU team there is literally zero chance of improving to the point that should he considered a minimum (making or being very close to making the tourney). Fran is in his 8th flippin year at an all time top 25 program. Fran can't recruit outside the state of Iowa worth a crap. What gives you any hope with Fran at the helm?

They aren't the same deficiencies every year. Same as last year tho. Jordan made the All B1G freshman team last season. He played PG. What's changed? No competent guard to compliment him. His rotation, I 1000% agree with you. Play 8-9 guys max. His bench should have shortened up a month ago. He couldn't recruit out of state because he had nothing to recruit with with no NCAA appearances since 2006. He got us to the dance and what happened? Cook, Garza, Nunge.... stop already.

It's bad, but it's just insanity how far you guys let things swing.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

Agree with you - what is the evidence that Patrick is overrated? That's not the same as predicting he's a surefire success in college, but calling him overrated, while he's still a junior in high school, is just being negative. But, that's probably the point.

Yeah, I'm not saying he is or isn't but just how does Sirius exactly know that?

 

[SheagleHawk]

Because Iowa missed the NCAA last season by 1 game with a better guard play last season. What has changed? No Jok. They bring in Connor, Joe W and Frederick next season.. all guards. Jordan, Moss and Dailey will be a year older and we have a lot of talent in our bigs. I really believe that if this team had another competent G ...PG, or SG that we'd be better this season. Maybe not undefeated better, or world beaters, but we wouldn't look like we do now. I don't think it would take even a minor miracle to be better next season.

We don't even have 1 now. Unless you're delusional enough to believe anyone in our backcourt would start anywhere else in the B1G. And expecting guys like CW or incoming FR to have any kind of significant impact, which is exactly what this team needs, is completely ridiculous.

 

[InGoodCo]

We know because the current state of things means everything is bad.

 

[InGoodCo]

We don't even have 1 now. Unless you're delusional enough to believe anyone in our backcourt would start anywhere else in the B1G. And expecting guys like CW or incoming FR to have any kind of significant impact, which is exactly what this team needs, is completely ridiculous.

Who is CW? Joe Wieskamp is one of the best SG's in the country and it is not completely ridiculous to expect him to come in and have a significant impact at all. He'll probably start. How exactly does that make me delusional?

 

[tksirius]

What do you base that on, exactly?

My own two eyes. Have you watched him play? No way in hell is he top 30 in the country. That's ridiculous.

Agree with you - what is the evidence that Patrick is overrated? That's not the same as predicting he's a surefire success in college, but calling him overrated, while he's still a junior in high school, is just being negative. But, that's probably the point.

Would we all agree that by all reports, he's at least 6'8"?
A "Top 30" 6'8" junior that only averages 6.9 rebounds a game in high school? And it's not like he's some sharp shooter either. He shoots 30% from three.
36 players in 4A have more blocks than PMac does. Remember that PMac is at least 6'8"

DJ Carton is 6'1" and averages 6.4 rebounds.
Tyreke Locure is 5'10" and averages 5.4 rebounds.

All three of these guys are 2019 recruits and play in 4A:

6'8" Pat McCaffery
Avg: 21.4pts, 6.9 rbds, 2.42 steals, .85 blocks, 2.71 assists,
Avg: FG 47.5%, 3PT 30.4%, FT 79.7%

6'1" DJ Carton
Avg: 23.4pts, 6.4 rbds, 1 steals, .60 blocks, 3.2 assists,
Avg: FG 45%, 3PT 41%, FT 80.6%

5'10" Tyreke Locure
Avg: 31.3pts, 5.4 rbds, 4.12 steals, 6.5 assists,
Avg: FG 48.2%, 3PT 41.3%, FT 76.5%

 

[NikeHawk21]

Because Iowa missed the NCAA last season by 1 game with a better guard play last season. What has changed? No Jok. They bring in Connor, Joe W and Frederick next season.. all guards. Jordan, Moss and Dailey will be a year older and we have a lot of talent in our bigs. I really believe that if this team had another competent G ...PG, or SG that we'd be better this season. Maybe not undefeated better, or world beaters, but we wouldn't look like we do now. I don't think it would take even a minor miracle to be better next season.

We need to be light years better than what we are right now to make the dance. We are likely on course for a bottom 3 finish in a league that may only get 4 teams in the dance this year. We are so bad right now that we wouldn’t get invited to the CBI.

The argument about last years team is really shaping your view, but the harsh reality is our biggest wins at Maryland and UW were when both those teams were playing awful. Look at the team that lost to Indiana in the B1G tourney, did that look like a tournament team to you? Last years teams got the doors blown off them at Illinois.

The book is out on this Iowa squad, and it doesn’t appear to be changing anytime soon in my estimation. Maybe I’ll be wrong again, let’s hope so.

 

[kicker22]

I’ve said all along Connor was overrated. I make my judgements based on the eye test. Are there many 6’5 PGs that aren’t very quick and are average jump shooters that have had a lot of success at this level? None that I recall. Pat has potential but still has a long way to go. I just don’t see him as a top 40 type guy.

But either way does that really matter? Are we really going to shackle ourselves to a coach because his kids? You say he should be gone if we don’t make the tourney next year? Do you think we will make the tourney next year?

I'm by no means qualified to scout talent, but one thing that always concerned me about Connor was the handful of times I saw him play in high school, I never had the impression he was the best player on the court or even his own back court. Nothing against Connor, but I always felt Devontae Lane was the one that stood out and to me had the higher ceiling despite his height.

 

[SheagleHawk]

They aren't the same deficiencies every year. Same as last year tho. Jordan made the All B1G freshman team last season. He played PG. What's changed? No competent guard to compliment him. His rotation, I 1000% agree with you. Play 8-9 guys max. His bench should have shortened up a month ago. He couldn't recruit out of state because he had nothing to recruit with with no NCAA appearances since 2006. He got us to the dance and what happened? Cook, Garza, Nunge.... stop already.

It's bad, but it's just insanity how far you guys let things swing.

I'm just over watching the same shit show. There is no excuse for our backcourt to be as pathetic as it is. Fran was a pg himself for Christ's sake!!! Iowa is not Kentucky, but jfc we are a power 5 team and an all time top 25 program. There is no excuse for the roster this staff has assembled. Other programs shitter than us are able to recruit better with less than what Iowa has to offer. I watch every game bc I've always loved Iowa basketball. But I've f'n had it with this bs. So many guys on our roster who should not be playing D1 ball, and almost every other coach in the nation knew this as evidenced by their lack of offers.

 

[SheagleHawk]

Who is CW? Joe Wieskamp is one of the best SG's in the country and it is not completely ridiculous to expect him to come in and have a significant impact at all. He'll probably start. How exactly does that make me delusional?

I meant CM. And Joe looks great against shitty Eastern Iowa competition. Hopefully that translates to B1G play, but you're crazy if you think he'll be in impact player immediately (which is what this team needs).

 

[InGoodCo]

You guys are fun.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Agree with you - what is the evidence that Patrick is overrated? That's not the same as predicting he's a surefire success in college, but calling him overrated, while he's still a junior in high school, is just being negative. But, that's probably the point.

How closely did you follow Connor’s recruitment? At one time he was in the ESPN top 25. He ended as a 150 level recruit. So he was either overrated or others passed him by, probably a little of both.

Pat has potential certainly but I don’t think he’s a top 30 type kid. Those kids come in and are instantly contributors. To me Pat looks like a kid who would come in and redshirt and be expected to contribute as a sophomore. That’s just my opinion and my opinions aren’t always negative.

 

[homes]

My own two eyes. Have you watched him play? No way in hell is he top 30 in the country. That's ridiculous.


Would we all agree that by all reports, he's at least 6'8"?
A "Top 30" 6'8" junior that only averages 6.9 rebounds a game in high school? And it's not like he's some sharp shooter either. He shoots 30% from three.
36 players in 4A have more blocks than PMac does. Remember that PMac is at least 6'8"

DJ Carton is 6'1" and averages 6.4 rebounds.
Tyreke Locure is 5'10" and averages 5.4 rebounds.

All three of these guys are 2019 recruits and play in 4A:

6'8" Pat McCaffery
Avg: 21.4pts, 6.9 rbds, 2.42 steals, .85 blocks, 2.71 assists,
Avg: FG 47.5%, 3PT 30.4%, FT 79.7%

6'1" DJ Carton
Avg: 23.4pts, 6.4 rbds, 1 steals, .60 blocks, 3.2 assists,
Avg: FG 45%, 3PT 41%, FT 80.6%

5'10" Tyreke Locure
Avg: 31.3pts, 5.4 rbds, 4.12 steals, 6.5 assists,
Avg: FG 48.2%, 3PT 41.3%, FT 76.5%

OK. So rebounding numbers and shooting percentage aren't good enough. You answered my question. Thanks. That begs another question, but I'm not interested enough in the answer to ask it.

 

[InGoodCo]

I meant CM. And Joe looks great against shitty Eastern Iowa competition. Hopefully that translates to B1G play, but you're crazy if you think he'll be in impact player immediately (which is what this team needs).

he was probably in the mix for being a McDonald's All American - it's not crazy to think he's gonna be an impact player for Iowa immediately.

 

[Stanzi]

I'll add on to this that Patrick McCaffery is the most overrated recruit in the country.

Lol based on what? Because of his last name?

 

[tksirius]

Lol based on what? Because of his last name?

See above^^

I'll add that one would expect a "Top 30" recruit to lead his state & class in at least one category, which he does not. Patrick McCaffery is most definitely not a Top 30 recruit. He is the most overrated recruit in the country.

 

[Stanzi]

I say can Fran after this season. I don't see any reason Wieskamp wouldn't stay committed. If some of the players we currently have want to transfer out then oh well. We aren't good enough to even make the NIT with them. I want a coach who can recruit legitimate out of state talent, and who knows how to teach defense. It drives me crazy how poorly we play defense.

 

[Stanzi]

See above^^

I'll add that one would expect a "Top 30" recruit to lead his state & class in at least one category, which he does not. Patrick McCaffery is most definitely not a Top 30 recruit. He is the most overrated recruit in the country.

That's kind of a ridiculous expectation. I would bet a lot of top 30 recruits don't lead their state in at least one category unless their name is Shaquille O'Neal. Plus, Patrick isn't a top 30 recruit, so I don't know why this is even a discussion.