The fact of the matter is....

STLhawkeye20 said:
The grass is always greener. What if we lose in the Elite 8 next year? Will you be complaining that Fran will never take us to the Final Four? Winning in the Big Ten (and the Dance) is hard man. There are lots of good programs that are trying just as hard as Iowa to compete. Making the Dance three years in a row is pretty solid. What more can you ask for? Sure, there have been some late season debacles, B1G Tourney uber failures, and limited success in the Dance, but I'm happy with where we're at. Now is not the time to hop off the train when the future looks bright with these kids. If this class (Williams, Bohannon, Pemsl, Cook, etc.) doesn't work out, then you might have an argument. Come back then.
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I'll bet you cash we don't go to the Elite 8 next year. Or the year after that.
 
lightning1 said:
If you do the math??? Lol. Better check your math on "28 years".
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Thanks for the correction. I must edit.....

It has been 38 years since the last Big conference championship. Even more reason for Fran to depart.....



I've been waiting ever since 1979 for another BigTen conference men's basketball championship.....

That is approximately 38 years......

Been a while, but I must agree, no Big title this season and Fran Must be relieved of duty.....

Championships haven't been all that frequent for the Hawks, having won conference championships in: 1923, 1926, 1945, 1955, 1956, 1968, 1970, 1979.....

If you do the math, that is three conference championships in approximately 60 years. So yes, I do understand your valid reasoning. Fran MUST GO.....

Perfect.....

:cool:
 
thedukeofearl said:
Thanks for the correction. I must edit.....

It has been 38 years since the last Big conference championship. Even more reason for Fran to depart.....



I've been waiting ever since 1979 for another BigTen conference men's basketball championship.....

That is approximately 38 years......

Been a while, but I must agree, no Big title this season and Fran Must be relieved of duty.....

Championships haven't been all that frequent for the Hawks, having won conference championships in: 1923, 1926, 1945, 1955, 1956, 1968, 1970, 1979.....

If you do the math, that is three conference championships in approximately 60 years. So yes, I do understand your valid reasoning. Fran MUST GO.....

Perfect.....

:cool:
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7 years is long enough to judge him by his own record of accomplishments, or lack there of. Time for a new coach.
 
PCHawk said:
I completely agree with those expectations. The one thing I'll add is in my opinion, you don't fire a coach who comes close to those. Right now, I think we are in a position where we will make the NCAA in 6 out of 7 years. He has also competed for the conference title at least once so far. We were in it pretty late Marble's senior year too but I'm not sure it was late enough to count as a second.

If we compete for championships two years straight two years from now, I'll be happy with Fran even if he falls just short of winning one.

As far as the tournament goes, I'm more concerned with seeds we get more than how far we make it. The tournament is a crap shoot so I don't put a lot of stock in a coaches performance based on how we do in it. I don't blame Fran for our 3 straight first round losses in the Big 10 tournament any more than I credit Alford for his runs in the tournament. Or blame him for the loss as a 3 seed for that matter.
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Of course I care how far Iowa gets, but this is pretty much how I see it regarding the tournament. Seeding is huge. Iowa only has one Sweet 16 appearance since 1988.. That's not so hot. But why? Well, Iowa typically seems to fall into that 7-9 seed range quite often. Hard to get past the first weekend when you're playing a 1 or 2 seed in the second round. A higher seed, and you'll obviously get to the Sweet 16 more often.

What I can recall in years where Iowa has been seeded 5th or higher:

1987: 2 seed, Elite 8.
1988: 5 seed, Sweet 16.
1989: 4 seed, 2nd round.
1993: 4 seed, 2nd round.
1999: 5 seed, Sweet 16.
2006: 3 seed, 1st round.

Those 4/5 match ups in the 2nd round, those are basically coin flip games and Iowa is 50/50 in those shown agove. So about what you'd expect.

That 2006 tournament.. Well, it sucks when it's your turn, but it's March Madness. 1st round upsets happen, and it seems like it's more and more often than it used to be (but maybe I'm imagining that). Like you said, it can be a crap shoot. Every team in the dance is pretty solid and are there for a reason, excluding maybe a 16 seed that steals an automatic invite with a losing record.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
Of course I care how far Iowa gets, but this is pretty much how I see it regarding the tournament. Seeding is huge. Iowa only has one Sweet 16 appearance since 1988.. That's not so hot. But why? Well, Iowa typically seems to fall into that 7-9 seed range quite often. Hard to get past the first weekend when you're playing a 1 or 2 seed in the second round. A higher seed, and you'll obviously get to the Sweet 16 more often.

What I can recall in years where Iowa has been seeded 5th or higher:

1987: 2 seed, Elite 8.
1988: 5 seed, Sweet 16.
1989: 4 seed, 2nd round.
1993: 4 seed, 2nd round.
1999: 5 seed, Sweet 16.
2006: 3 seed, 1st round.

Those 4/5 match ups in the 2nd round, those are basically coin flip games and Iowa is 50/50 in those shown agove. So about what you'd expect.

That 2006 tournament.. Well, it sucks, but it's March Madness. 1st round upsets happen, and it seems like it's more and more often than it used to be (but maybe I'm imagining that).
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When I say I don't care how far they get, it means I don't judge coaches based on something as random as tournament games. I big time care how far they get as far as being a fan of the team goes.
 
ShockHawk22 said:
I disagree
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'7 years is long enough to judge him by his own record of accomplishments, or lack there of. Time for a new coach.'

I agree with the first sentence of this statement. Disagree with the second.

In my assessment of those 7 years, Fran has done enough to warrant his getting more time. 3 straight NCAA's before this year, especially with what he inherited from Lick.. That's pretty solid IMO.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
'7 years is long enough to judge him by his own record of accomplishments, or lack there of. Time for a new coach.'

I agree with the first sentence of this statement. Disagree with the second.

In my assessment of those 7 years, Fran has done enough to warrant his getting more time. 3 straight NCAA's before this year, especially with what he inherited from Lick.. That's pretty solid IMO.
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3 NCAA tournament appearances in 7 years is not good.
 
lightning1 said:
3 NCAA tournament appearances in 7 years is not good.
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Yeah but you have to take into consideration how freaking terrible Iowa was when he took over. For that reason I give him a pass for those first 2 years. 3 NCAA tourneys in 5 years is much better.

Plus I also take into consideration what I believe the future looks like, and to me it looks incredibly bright. It would monumentally stupid to let Fran go right now. Monumentally stupid.
 
DP5555 said:
Yeah but you have to take into consideration how freaking terrible Iowa was when he took over. For that reason I give it him a pass for those first 2 years. 3 NCAA tourneys in 5 years is much better.

Plus I also take into consideration what I believe the future looks like, and to me it looks incredibly bright. It would monumentally stupid to let Fran go right now. Monumentally stupid.
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I disagree. Fran will never deliver a BIG title to us.
 
DP5555 said:
Yeah but you have to take into consideration how freaking terrible Iowa was when he took over. For that reason I give it him a pass for those first 2 years. 3 NCAA tourneys in 5 years is much better.

Plus I also take into consideration what I believe the future looks like, and to me it looks incredibly bright. It would monumentally stupid to let Fran go right now. Monumentally stupid.
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you are not going to convince him otherwise, he is stuck in his position now.....A year or 2 from now we will see if he eats crow.
 
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PCHawk said:
So if Weiscamp plays like an all American as a sophomore and has this freshmen class as seniors, no way Fran can get it done huh?
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I'm willing to bet against it actually happening. You're predicating Fran winning a BIG title on a SO playing like an All American? That's a stretch.
 
lightning1 said:
3 NCAA tournament appearances in 7 years is not good.
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It is when the first couple years were full rebuild mode. Did you seriously expect Fran to take Lick's team and get them to the dance? Seems that way...

Now if Fran had inherited what Mr. Davis did, then it'd be a different story.
 
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1977Hawkeye said:
It is when the first couple years were full rebuild mode.

You can't look at everything in a vacuum. Good grief.
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I'm not much into subjective records keeping. The IRS isn't interested in it and neither am I. Jaryd Cole, Matt Gatens and Devyn Marble isn't bad for your first roster.
 
Iowa only beat Maryland by 14 at Maryland. We need a coach who will take us to the next level. Derpity derpity derp.
 
lightning1 said:
I'm not much into subjective records keeping. The IRS isn't interested in it and neither am I. Jaryd Cole, Matt Gatens and Devyn Marble isn't bad for your first roster.
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Cole was a shell of his former self due to injuries. Marble was a freshman. I'll give you Gatens. There wasn't a whole lot else on that team.
 
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