The Alford Stuff

[ShadasRevenge]

Has Dakich been spouting off on twitter again? It's the only reason I can why there is a 100-post thread about a coach who left Iowa City 6 years ago.

 

[Seth53]

This isn't solely about Alf's lack of NCAA/NIT success.

He offended untold #'s of hard-working Iowa folks with his arrogant demeanor.

Knight did it for years @ IU, but everyone looked the other way becuz he won.

Alf didn't win enough big games, and, was a pr!ck.

Not a good fit in this state.

 

[Skeets77]

I think most fans were okay with the Alford hire. However many fans have selective memories. He was coming off a Sweet 16 appearance at SWMS, blowing out Tennessee & Wisconsin on the way there. Had Iowa not already had a handshake deal in place that January they would have been in a bidding war for Alford that March.

I still think it was the right move by BB. Iowa's program was not going to progress under Davis anymore. He had topped out what he was capable of. BB took a gamble on Alford and lost. It happens to programs bigger and better than Iowa.

Davis did a solid job at Iowa but far too many make him out to be far more than he was. If you need any evidence of how good of a coach he really was, look at how many schools went after him after he left Iowa?

How old was Mr. Davis when he left Iowa, 61 or 62. Mr. Davis was looking more at retirement by the time he left Iowa. Taking the Drake job was huge for Drake and brought in some pretty good talent. He did a great job at Iowa going to the NCAA tournament 9 out of 13 years. Lute took us to the big dance 5 out of 9 years.

 

[Robberty]

...and Hitler improved Germany's economy.

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

sooner than I expected.

 

[Xerxes]

Well, it is what it is, man. Getting blasted in the second round of the tourney means your team is prolly somewhere between 17 and 32 in the rankings come the end of the year (with some luck component built in). Honestly, that is about the high water mark for our program, maybe we land a guy or have some luck here and there that can get us to the Sweet 16 or the Elite 8, but that would be pretty rare. The problem is if we land a really, really solid coach, odds are he is going to bail to a higher tier program (Self at Illinois is a good modern example) and fan expectations just don't comport with reality.

This pretty much knocks it out of the park.

However, at that time (1998-1999), I really didn't want to hear, "it is what it is." I didn't know the realities of college sports and Iowa's place in that reality. I thought Iowa could be as good as it wanted to be, regardless of the sport. I didn't understand the limitations of location,budgets, and politics or that loyalty doesn't have a place in sports and really shouldn't. As the Gs like to say, 'you have to get yours while you can.'

Many on this board want KF gone right now. In fact his situation is not all that different from Davis' except KF is a far better and more wanted FB coach than Davis was a BB coach.

However I have learned the "it is what it is" of Iowa football and canning Kirk right now is playing with fire, particularly with how many bills are paid by the football revenue but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

[Xerxes]

How old was Mr. Davis when he left Iowa, 61 or 62. Mr. Davis was looking more at retirement by the time he left Iowa. Taking the Drake job was huge for Drake and brought in some pretty good talent. He did a great job at Iowa going to the NCAA tournament 9 out of 13 years. Lute took us to the big dance 5 out of 9 years.

Davis said publicly after Iowa didn't renew his contract that he wanted to continue coaching. He didn't retire from coaching until 2007, nearly 10 years after leaving Iowa. Either he didn't want to leave the state of Iowa or Drake was simply the best offer he could get.

 

[okeefe4prez]

This pretty much knocks it out of the park.

However, at that time (1998-1999), I really didn't want to hear, "it is what it is." I didn't know the realities of college sports and Iowa's place in that reality. I thought Iowa could be as good as it wanted to be, regardless of the sport. I didn't understand the limitations of location,budgets, and politics or that loyalty doesn't have a place in sports and really shouldn't. As the Gs like to say, 'you have to get yours while you can.'

Many on this board want KF gone right now. In fact his situation is not all that different from Davis' except KF is a far better and more wanted FB coach than Davis was a BB coach.

However I have learned the "it is what it is" of Iowa football and canning Kirk right now is playing with fire, particularly with how many bills are paid by the football revenue but that's a whole other can of worms.

Look, I know I'll get trolled for saying this, but my two seasons of adopting NU as my surrogate team based strictly on geography, dirt cheap ticket prices and the lack of the formation of a police state around their stadium banning all fun has given me a totally different perspective. They have nearly as delusional expectations as Iowa fans (not quite as high, but close) and any rational third party observer who is relatively disinterested can see how ridiculous they sound. I'm sure OSU or Michigan fans think the same about us. Take the good years when they come, but don't expect them too often.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Davis said publicly after Iowa didn't renew his contract that he wanted to continue coaching. He didn't retire from coaching until 2007, nearly 10 years after leaving Iowa. Either he didn't want to leave the state of Iowa or Drake was simply the best offer he could get.

I suspect Drake was the best offer and they prolly gave a wink and a nod in regards to Keno that was critical. Though I went to Drake UG, I ain't a Drake fan, but that Drake-Western Kentucky loss stung just as bad as that Iowa-Northwestern State loss - I really wanted to see Keno make a run.

 

[VAHawkFan]

Look, I know I'll get trolled for saying this, but my two seasons of adopting NU as my surrogate team based strictly on geography, dirt cheap ticket prices and the lack of the formation of a police state around their stadium banning all fun has given me a totally different perspective. They have nearly as delusional expectations as Iowa fans (not quite as high, but close) and any rational third party observer who is relatively disinterested can see how ridiculous they sound. I'm sure OSU or Michigan fans think the same about us. Take the good years when they come, but don't expect them too often.

A good rule for life in general...

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

IIRC it was Bowlsby who pushed Davis to the curb, not the fans. He (BB) wanted to get someone else in. I seem to remember the fans were upset that Davis wasn't retained.

I see Fran's tenure running very similar to Mr. Davis's. There will be some very good years, but also a lean year or two. Would I like to see the Hawks get to the point of not "if" we make the tournament but what our seed is going to be? ABSOLUTELY!! But Iowa is not, and probably never will be, the choice destination of the 5-stars. I'll be happy if Fran gets the program to the point of 8 out of 10 years the team makes it to the dance.

Just my $.02 .. ..

GO HAWKS!!!

Then you don't remember correctly. Sure BB will always be the bad guy, but the majority of the fan base was ready for change and anyone claiming otherwise is lying. We all know the love people have for Mr. Davis but it really resonated when the program started the big slide.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Then you don't remember correctly. Sure BB will always be the bad guy, but the majority of the fan base was ready for change and anyone claiming otherwise is lying.

Yep, "next level" was the theme of the day. It's a helluva lot easier to find that next level down than up, though, boys.

 

[PalmettoHawkFan]

Davis got serviceable talent. Everyone got spoiled when Raveling walked into Illinois and Michigan and landed some damn legit ball players. I'm sorry, but there is a big difference between JR Koch and the guys closer to the top of the top 100 list coming out of bigger states. And one downside of the Davis era was Pearl - has Iowa landed a single legit stud out of Illinois (who is not currently on a sex offender registry) bince the Deon Thomas incident? Joey Range out of Galesburg? Oh wait, I said legit stud. Iowa's name is still mud with the HS and AAU coaches in Illinois and that was decades ago. So that's another big issue Alford had to deal with that Davis didn't have to deal with when he walked in.

you're losing your edge, okp.

ravelling recruited better than any modern era coach at iowa -- miller and lute included. what ravelling did was an aberration.

davis was a better recruiter than alford -- about even at the top end, but huge advantage when it comes to the kind of player that iowa traditionally has to recruit, the high 3-star (arnold, boyle, hansen, bullard, etc.). no coach is going to make a living at iowa recruiting high school AAs consistently. he'll get those guys every few years (ideally), but has to make it happen with getting the most development possible out of those kids in the 50-200 range. alford didn't make that happen.

what is that kid from the bible academy in philly up to now? nyuk nyuk nyuk....

 

[okeefe4prez]

you're losing your edge, okp.

ravelling recruited better than any modern era coach at iowa -- miller and lute included. what ravelling did was an aberration.

davis was a better recruiter than alford -- about even at the top end, but huge advantage when it comes to the kind of player that iowa traditionally has to recruit, the high 3-star (arnold, boyle, hansen, bullard, etc.). no coach is going to make a living at iowa recruiting high school AAs consistently. he'll get those guys every few years (ideally), but has to make it happen with getting the most development possible out of those kids in the 50-200 range. alford didn't make that happen.

what is that kid from the bible academy in philly up to now? nyuk nyuk nyuk....

Davis's early years he had credibility built up with Raveling's players to rely on. Davis's assistant, Pearl, absolutely destroyed our recruiting in Chicagoland and it was a freaking miracle Alford got Pierce. Alford scored some studs, but they either didn't qualify or transferred (Sommerville) or got kicked out of school. Dude recruited pretty dang well, but he had qualification and retention issues. You can tell yourself he didn't recruit well because you hate him, but he actually did and that legacy reputation hit we took in Illinois with the Thomas incident will hurt our program for freaking decades.

 

[1hawkeye1]

yes,over the years Bernstein has repeatedly said that he wants SA to die a painful,horrible death,and he will have a party when it happens. He wants SA to be killed,leaving his family behind without a father.
That Bernstein, he is a helluva guy....no wait, he is a shock-jock jerk. I am sure that SA is no angel but he does not make a living wishing death on people that have not broken laws. Bernstein makes SA look like an angel.

Hmmmm.......*headed to twitter now to follow*

 

[PalmettoHawkFan]

Davis's early years he had credibility built up with Raveling's players to rely on. Davis's assistant, Pearl, absolutely destroyed our recruiting in Chicagoland and it was a freaking miracle Alford got Pierce. Alford scored some studs, but they either didn't qualify or transferred (Sommerville) or got kicked out of school. Dude recruited pretty dang well, but he had qualification and retention issues. You can tell yourself he didn't recruit well because you hate him, but he actually did and that legacy reputation hit we took in Illinois with the Thomas incident will hurt our program for freaking decades.

overall Alford didn't recruit well because although he could land blue-chippers as well as Lute or Davis, he could not retain a significant percentage of the quality athletes he signed, and he failed to develop his 3 stars. that's not Alford hate. that's a consideration of the record.

blame Pearl for poisoning the Illinois well all you want. that doesn't cause you to lose Bohannon go to Bucky. that doesn't mean that the best class you can muster after 8 years on the job is Kelly-Peterson-Coyle.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Alford throwing his players under the bus? Nah.

ABQJournal Sports » Crimson and over

“We can’t shoot for them,†Alford said. “It’s all part of the game. … That’s an obviously glaring weakness on this basketball team, and we’ve got to do a lot of work in the offseason with our shooting.â€

I have never heard a quote like this from Fran!

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Well, it is what it is, man. Getting blasted in the second round of the tourney means your team is prolly somewhere between 17 and 32 in the rankings come the end of the year (with some luck component built in). Honestly, that is about the high water mark for our program, maybe we land a guy or have some luck here and there that can get us to the Sweet 16 or the Elite 8, but that would be pretty rare. The problem is if we land a really, really solid coach, odds are he is going to bail to a higher tier program (Self at Illinois is a good modern example) and fan expectations just don't comport with reality.

Can't really argue with that. If Iowa got a guy that gets us to the Sweet 16 or beyond with regularity, sooner or later (probably sooner), some other big time program is going to come calling. Your example of Self at Illinois is right on the money.

That doesn't mean that I'm going to settle for mediocrity like we got under Alford.. Iowa can do better.

Being in the NCAA's every year and "only" getting to the second round was pretty good and the basketball was fun to watch. It sure beats the better part of the past decade plus. It's just a shame that Iowa wasn't good enough under Davis to avoid that dreaded 8/9 slot in the tournament, or even the 7/10 game, more often than it was able to. Even get to that 6 seed, or better yet, the 4/5 game, and it makes a deeper tourney run become a lot more realistic of a possibility. Just gotta avoid the Dukes and UK's of the world in round #2.

Take Wisconsin - that's the type of program I think Iowa can be, realistically (at least in my opinion). I don't mean in terms of style of play, but rather, level of success. And hope for the occasional deeper run. As a fan, I'd be fine with that.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

No, he's implying Neal can't get hired because, well,

Put it this way. Every staff has at least one guy that does the dirty work to varying degrees to get players.

And Jon would be correct in his insinuation.

So Neal is a possibly a dirty recruiter? I guess I don't entirely understand. Other programs are afraid to hire these guys as head coaches because of potential NCAA issues down the road? As in they can get away with things as assistants but not as head coaches? Jon, flesh this out for me a bit.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Dakich is getting it big time from Hokk fans on the Twitter-verse, and he finally has had enough:

Dan Dakich ‏@dandakich 13m
Iowa twitter people..judge /argue amongst yourselves for a while I've got a radio show to do..let he who is without sin cast the 1st stone.

How to alienate a fan base 101!

 

[WindsorHawk]

You don't remember it that well.

It was announced that Davis' contract wouldn't be renewed WELL prior to the Sweet 16 season. I believe it was not long after the previous season wrapped.

It is 1 of the reasons Settles came back for his 7th year with a broken back!