The Alford Stuff

[okeefe4prez]

blame Pearl for poisoning the Illinois well all you want. that doesn't cause you to lose Bohannon go to Bucky.

Guys like Bohannon weren't the difference between Iowa being really good during Bohannon's career and sucking during his career, though. Nice ball player, not a major difference maker, though, during that era.

 

[WindsorHawk]

I do not remember that at all, you confusing him with Beas Hamga? He was another highly rated recruit that backed out after Alford left but he was not going to qualify at Iowa anyway.

Talent is right.

 

[PalmettoHawkFan]

Guys like Bohannon weren't the difference between Iowa being really good during Bohannon's career and sucking during his career, though. Nice ball player, not a major difference maker, though, during that era.

uh

top 100 kid

you get one of those every year and develop him -- especially your in-state talent -- you have a good B1G program.

alford failed to do that.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Can't really argue with that. If Iowa got a guy that gets us to the Sweet 16 or beyond with regularity, sooner or later (probably sooner), some other big time program is going to come calling. Your example of Self at Illinois is right on the money.

That doesn't mean that I'm going to settle for mediocrity like we got under Alford.. Iowa can do better.

Being in the NCAA's every year and "only" getting to the second round was pretty good and the basketball was fun to watch. It sure beats the better part of the past decade plus. It's just a shame that Iowa wasn't good enough under Davis to avoid that dreaded 8/9 slot in the tournament, or even the 7/10 game, more often than it was able to. Even get to that 6 seed, or better yet, the 4/5 game, and it makes a deeper tourney run become a lot more realistic of a possibility. Just gotta avoid the Dukes and UK's of the world in round #2.

Take Wisconsin - that's the type of program I think Iowa can be, realistically (at least in my opinion). I don't mean in terms of style of play, but rather, level of success. And hope for the occasional deeper run. As a fan, I'd be fine with that.

Sure, Iowa can do better, but not much. Iowa had 3 tourney appearances under Alford. Our odds in the new mid major love regime should probably be 5. I'd like to have success like Wisconsin has had, but the fact is they have one of the annointed coaches in the conference right now whose style of basketball has tainted the entire conference and we don't have that guy. They're kind of where we were standings wise (maybe a touch higher) and it's a total zero sum game, so we gotta send them on the elevator down. Simple as that. Fran seems to be on track to do just that.

As for seeding, hell the way the tourney works now, you're probably better with a 12 or 13 (like Cal and Oregon or where Iowa should have been instead of Boise Freaking State) than you are with a 7 or 8 (I never expect us to see a 1).

 

[WindsorHawk]

Yeah you are right, but I remember Collison had second thoughts of coming here after it was announced that Davis's contract would not be renewed. I don't think Collison had ever officially committed to Iowa but he has even said with his own mouth that he was coming to Iowa had Davis not been let go.

Okay I will field this 1. Nick was not coming to Iowa...Davis staying would not have mattered. Nick did not like the substitution pattern and Williams is very convincing. I do not make statements of fact very often but this is how it was. There is no source better than mine...guaranteed.

 

[okeefe4prez]

uh

top 100 kid

you get one of those every year and develop him -- especially your in-state talent -- you have a good B1G program.

alford failed to do that.

So are you going to knock current or past coaches for not landing Collison, LaFrentz, Paige or Barnes? You don't just automatically land every top 100 kid in your state.

 

[okeefe4prez]

ALFORD SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN KYLE KORVER.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

Alford/Lickliter would have never EVER been at Iowa if Davis recruited better. He lost out on some huge recruits that would have changed the dynamic of Mr. Davis's career at Iowa.

 

[allup86]

A buddy of mine just heard on Jay Mohr's radio show that Alford is rumored for the USC job.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

A buddy of mine just heard on Jay Mohr's radio show that Alford is rumored for the USC job.

Alford just signed a 10 year deal.. If it was a 3 or 4 year extention that Alford signed I might believe this USC rumor. But a 10 year deal, there is nothing to see here IMO.

 

[ihawkeye]

A buddy of mine just heard on Jay Mohr's radio show that Alford is rumored for the USC job.

USC likes those kind of coaches. Lane Kiffen and him will be golfing buddies.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

This isn't solely about Alf's lack of NCAA/NIT success.

He offended untold #'s of hard-working Iowa folks with his arrogant demeanor.

Knight did it for years @ IU, but everyone looked the other way becuz he won.

Alf didn't win enough big games, and, was a pr!ck.

Not a good fit in this state.

Yes and no, but mostly no. While Knight got away with being an ***, because he won... that was his mode of operation: tough, military drill sergeant approach. He had no tolerance for cheaters (that's spelled L-O-U-H-E-N-S-O-N) He was just a hard azz...or just an azz to many. But most still respected him.

Alford is a very different brand of arrogance. Aloof, above it all, I'm better than you...stuff. Knight was just an "I'm the boss and don't forget it"...kind of hard azz.

Knight, despite his off-putting demeanor is well-known for going out of his way to help people, being loyal to a fault to his players, etc. Alford's story in Iowa City couldn't have been much more different...it was all about "what can you do for ME"...cause I'm special. And while I know that some of the rumor stuff, was just that. There's plenty of well-supported stories of his behavior to make the case.

Or shouid I just keep it simple?: Pierre Pierce. Nothing like invoking"Jesus" to intimidate a rape victim.

 

[hawkeyeguy85]

So Neal is a possibly a dirty recruiter? I guess I don't entirely understand. Other programs are afraid to hire these guys as head coaches because of potential NCAA issues down the road? As in they can get away with things as assistants but not as head coaches? Jon, flesh this out for me a bit.

That is the buzz concerning Neal.

Now, the vast majority of staffs have guys that will blur the lines, so I don't mean to "judge them" as Dakich would say.

 

[LawVHawk]

Davis's early years he had credibility built up with Raveling's players to rely on. Davis's assistant, Pearl, absolutely destroyed our recruiting in Chicagoland and it was a freaking miracle Alford got Pierce. Alford scored some studs, but they either didn't qualify or transferred (Sommerville) or got kicked out of school. Dude recruited pretty dang well, but he had qualification and retention issues. You can tell yourself he didn't recruit well because you hate him, but he actually did and that legacy reputation hit we took in Illinois with the Thomas incident will hurt our program for freaking decades.

This is my recollection as well. You'd hear the names and see the stats/backgrounds and say, "Hmmm, this looks pretty good..." But most of those guys didn't get to campus or if they did, didn't qualify and left, as I recall. With Alford we saw the rather significant gap between a kid saying "I'll play for Iowa" and "I'm in Iowa City and enrolled..."

 

[atxhawk]

I always said that if we could have let Davis do the coaching and Raveling the recruiting that Iowa would have lived in the top ten and go to many final fours.

Good friend of mine down here is a Lobo and I've been telling him since day 1 that Stevie Hairgel is not the savior they all think he is. He will have a great regulare season and conference tournament but they will never be a threat in the NCAA.

 

[PalmettoHawkFan]

So are you going to knock current or past coaches for not landing Collison, LaFrentz, Paige or Barnes? You don't just automatically land every top 100 kid in your state.

yes

bohannon wasn't in that league. he was the kind of kid iowa has to land in their own state. collison was an iowa lock until bowlsby announced davis wouldn't be back, btw.

 

[Scorpio]

Every thread being about Alford, 6 years after he left, is kind of embarrassing.

Coming from the adult with his Batman logo.

 

[JonDMiller]

Iowa wants to be a premier top tier basketball program and it struggles to get to the middle of the conference each year. We were pretty hard on Alford in allot of ways. He couldn't recruit and bring talent to Iowa City. He only had one losing season if you look at over all non-conference but he sucked in conference with only 3 out of 8 seasons where he won more then he lost.

and the Big Ten in his era was at its low point over the last 30 years. The three years of the Fran era, the league is so, so, so much better, as close to its 80's heyday since the heyday

 

[bcl20]

Coming from the adult with his Batman logo.

I know man, **** liking stuff.

 

[JonDMiller]

Iowa wasn't elite by the time we were operating with solely Mr. Davis's players. Mr. Davis was like a slightly better Bruce Weber - could win with the other coach's guys, but never got that blockbuster recruiting class to get him back to the top. However, in Mr. Davis's defense, the death of Street really changed the trajectory of the program and rumors were that Raef was leaning heavy toward Iowa due to Street, but that disappeared when Street passed. That one event honestly could have changed the course of Mr. Davis's career pretty drastically. I was at the game where the '87 team was honored last season and the love for Mr. Davis when he was announced was simply amazing. It takes a big man to walk back into that arena after the way he was treated at the end and Mr. Davis was that big man. I don't know if we'll ever see another coach like him.

I ran the last 10 years of Davis era numbers when I was a part of the lynch mob...I think TD was 87-85 in Big Ten play without Marble/Amrstrong/Horton on his teams.

And I was young and dumb then. Now, just old and slightly less dumb