HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
You are just so annoying. Thanks.
Thanks for everything JBO but....
- Thread starter Scott Leclair
- Start date
vork22
Well-Known Member
He struggles against any guard with a pulse because he is easy to shut down and can’t stop anything. He barely gets the ball across half court when guys d him up. I’ve always thought that he should come off the bench and if he isn’t hitting 3’s then he sits until free throw time. He is a hell of a weapon when he is on though so if he is on fire let him play the whole damn game but against the top tournament teams he will be a liability.
Fryowa
Administrator
One thing your analysis is ignoring is alternative options from the bench. As I mentioned before, Murray is a much more potent scoring threat/40 mins, and the CM/KM combination would arguably yield better numbers (assuming equal minutes under both scenarios) other than Murray fouls more. Keegan also has better WS/40 numbers in conference play.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/iowa/2021.html#advanced_conf::7
You are correct in saying that JB isn’t as bad as what people are implying in this thread. But you’re also not taking a comparative look at different substitutions that would yield better results.
Full disclosure I was pretty apprehensive at that point myself. They'd swung and missed a few times in recruiting at that point. It ended up being premature but at that point Garza wasn't what he turned into yet and it was what it was... Spilled milk now heck OSU isn't missing DJC either and they had him for 15 mins.
Luftgekuehlt67
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's a fair counter. My primary argument for Keegan keeping a 6th man type role is a couple of things:
- Keegan, like a lot of young guys, is something of a foul machine.
- I suspect, over the course of a season, Bohannon is going to give you better consistency as a starter than Keegan would.
I am very high on KM and think he should get good minutes...but, call me old fashioned, but him coming off the bench at this stage in his development feels right to me.
Keegan vs JBo I'm willing to listen to - I'd keep it as-is personally, but I don't think it's a slam dunk no-brainer either.
My favorite one is Touissant vs JBo. I have hopes for Touissant becoming a starter-level performer before he's done but, in his current state, the dude is a TO waiting to happen...but he runs real fast and made some layups so...he should start (I guess).
My fear for Touissant is strikes me as a guy who needs some minutes to improve but, with this season in this league with this lineup with these expectations, that's really not going to happen. He might be a bench lifer...no shame in that, not too many people in the world good enough to be a bench lifer on a Big Ten roster but, in a parallel universe, if he had joined us while we were in more of a rebuild mode, his chances may have been better. It's all a very windy way of saying I think the program is in a very good place talent-wise right now.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
I don't think JBo is a god on the basketball court. I do think he takes better care of the basketball than JoeT. Yes, JoeT is averaging 1.4 turnovers per game in 11.7 minutes per game. However, JBo is averaging 1.3 turnovers per game in 28.9 minutes per game. And it isn't the turnovers that get JoeT "yanked" from the game - it's losing his man on D or fouling by being out of position on D.
Yes, JoeT is quicker; he's likely the quickest on the team. Yes, JoeT has a bigger upside. But at this point in time we don't need potential - we need results. And JBo has proven results time and again.
RyDogg
Well-Known Member
I had higher hopes for JoeT this year and agree at this point we can't afford to have him on the floor a lot if he's turning it over. I just wish he would have gotten more consistent minutes earlier in the year to help his development. He does bring something different to the team that they are lacking at times. games like last night, i had no problem with how much JBo played because despite his shot not falling he wasn't killing us on D and he was taking care of the ball while being a continual threat from deep.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
He cannot defend worth a shit, what the hell are you watching when Iowa is on defense?
I get that Toussaint doesnt get as many minutes as JBo, that's because he makes 1 mistake and get the hook. When you are digging through those numbers did you happen to see that Toussaint also averages 8 assist per 40 minutes?
Luftgekuehlt67
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure which games you have been watching but, in conference play going by percentage, Jordan is the 8th best 3P shooter in the league at right about 43%. That's an excellent percentage even before the line was moved back. I would happily take any other players you know of that you feel have a propensity for doing a lot of "clanking".
Bohannon is also one of our most effective assist guys - a high level of passing skill across the line up is very critical in our type of free wheeling, on the fly motion offense.
As far as carrying the team goes, that's what Garza and Wieskamp are for. This team is in a wildly different place as far as offensive options than it was in Bohannon's previous seasons.
Touissant is a Hawk so, on a certain level, that's good enough for me. On another level, I absolutely cringe every time he handles the ball. He is a project player, for sure. He's got some great pieces to work with so I heartily endorse the project and hope it works out but, thankfully, we're in a place where we don't have to play project players for significant minutes.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
Why wouldn't the non conference games count? Since we are now looking at arbitrary end points to support narratives how has JBo been the 2nd half of the conference games? Almost a third of his made 3 pointers came in 2 games against Northwestern and Maryland. This is dumb, he's 38% from 3's this season it makes no difference conference or non conference. The 0-5 he did against Gonzaga is just as important as the 0-7 he had against Indiana.
JBo is valuable when the game is on the line and you need a clutch 3 pointer or you need someone to put the game on ice at the free throw line. He does get a good deal of assists, but playing the point guard position is going to get you a bunch of assists. If that's why he's in the game then Connor is the better passer. But if you are needing a critical stop on defense, JBo shouldn't be in the game.
MWS604
Well-Known Member
As usual good analysis, especially pointing out when JBo's shots aren't going in he doesn't push it. Joe T on the other hand hasn't learned to how to play under control. It appears he isn't coachable. He is what he is.
The team is playing well, don't change anything.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Inconsistent or not, JBo was enough of a long range threat to minimize any potential doubling on Garza last night.
In the past against us, Wisconsin has frequently used a guard like Zac Showalter, Josh Gasser, Brevin Pritzl, or Davison to front our post and make post entry difficult to impossible. They didn't have to respect out outside shooting, or our post players' willingness to kick it out.
This Iowa team is different. And Bohannon helps.
In the past against us, Wisconsin has frequently used a guard like Zac Showalter, Josh Gasser, Brevin Pritzl, or Davison to front our post and make post entry difficult to impossible. They didn't have to respect out outside shooting, or our post players' willingness to kick it out.
This Iowa team is different. And Bohannon helps.
Glass1/2fullguy
Well-Known Member
Troll
Scott Leclair
Well-Known Member
First of all you didn’t ignore it.
2nd- a different opinion is trolling?
3rd- please share with us you expert basketball credentials.
4th- Who made you the “check with me before you make a post on a fan site” boss?
But thanks for letting me know your expert opinion on my post.
Scott Leclair
Well-Known Member
BTW, majority of folks on here have their point of view, added stats and other talking points. That’s what these are for right? Have some fun and talk about the Hawks. Do you have any thoughts of your own or is “you are a troll” your only contribution. Thanks and have a great night!
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
He has made some of the dumbest turnovers in conference play.
Thats why his minutes are getting reduced. Getting caught in the air behind the basket last night was a perfect example.
That might work at Rucker Park, but not in an important conference game.
Fryowa
Administrator
I could ask you the question, “Why would non-conference games count?”
Now that we have a ranking-based seeding system (instead of some stupid arbitrary committee picking seeds), unless those games are Q1 don’t really mean shit.
Luftgekuehlt67
Well-Known Member
Yeah, exactly. D1 basketball is an enormous universe.
This far into the season we have the luxury of having enough conference games under our belt to start developing a decent picture of how were playing against more or less like-competition.
Yeah, this year we played Gonzaga (1) and UNC (42), but our next highest rated (KenPom) non con opponent was a pitiful ISU team (155). I really don't care - beyond picking up an injury-free W - what Iowa did against, say, NIU (313).
On the conference side, every single opponent has fallen between #6 (Illinois) and #69 (MSU) in the KenPom rankings. It's just a much tighter grouping in terms of opponent quality and, in theory, better quality individual statistics to analyze.
But, yeah, Bohannon is "only" 38% (3P%) for the season. On the other hand, in the set of games responsible for dragging his 3P% from 43% down to 38%, Iowa went 6-1 with the lone loss being to #1 Gonzaga (who beats everyone), so I'm just not inclined to worry too much about it. In this particular circumstance, I also have the knowledge that Jordan was coming off a year where he didn't play in the last 2/3s, so he likely had some rust to shake off.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
The opponent doesn’t mean much when we are talking 3 point percentage. Hell he was probably more wide open against the cream puffs.
