JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
I dont like Weisman in many zone situations at all. go Power O or hat on hat. Leave the one-cut decisions to players who can actually go laterally in a high gear.
I dont like Weisman in many zone situations at all. go Power O or hat on hat. Leave the one-cut decisions to players who can actually go laterally in a high gear.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Well I apologize in advance but I could not disagree any more adamantly than I do. You run a great site and you are obviously a good fan but the numbers don't bare out the above so I propose just the opposite. The bad has jaded you so much you don't remember how much good there is...As I have now said multiple times in this very thread and others have very succinctly pointed out, with X's and O's MOST of MW's yards have came outside. As I also said, Marc Morehouse whom Id guess you'd agree is a pretty solid and impartial reporter took the time to chart it.
There really isnt anything more to say. Thankfully someone else will be calling the plays this fall. I really love seeing that big beer wagon blowing thru the zone stretch and plowing folks over. His lateral quickness would impeded him much more inside in a cut back situation. He is plenty fast enuff to run the zone stretch of which Iowa predominately uses. But I guess you could ask KF to scrap his whole offensive blocking philosophy because you personally don't like seeing MW outside.You might want to hide all the videos though....
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Jjgoiowa11
Well-Known Member
He dominated Missouri state and isu....
The outside zone is not really designed to cut back. One of the problems with many young backs is they need to be taught to stay on the track; they could all cut back at will in high school against inferior competition, so they assume they can do it in college. If they try that on an outside zone play, they cut back into all of the pursuit and they get creamed.
The inside zone is designed to cut back
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
That seems fairly obvious when you really think about it CP and I really enjoyed the thread that you guys were posting in from a while back. I honestly never even thought about the inside zone being the obvious spot for a cut back even though I did realize that cutback was there in the Wisconsin game. I wish more people would be more open-minded and listen to guys like you and 99 and these other chaps. You laid it out very well and it seems pretty obvious when you look backwards.
Thanks
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
I guess I'd offer up that Weisman's biggest outside plays are to the left...and its typically when he's getting to the second level without getting touched...which is far more on the OL than Weisman. And Weisman pretty much offers zero chance of the 'just make one guy miss and he's gone' component that the Iowa offense needs...this offense needs some error margin. Mark is not gonna supply that.
I think there is a place for him for sure, but he's not going to be the #1 back on any of the legit B1G contenders.
And disagreeing with someone is fine man..not sure when it became all about 'I am right, if you don't agree with me, you are wrong' and have to apologize. We see it differently.
I think there is a place for him for sure, but he's not going to be the #1 back on any of the legit B1G contenders.
And disagreeing with someone is fine man..not sure when it became all about 'I am right, if you don't agree with me, you are wrong' and have to apologize. We see it differently.
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99topdawg
Well-Known Member
Exactly this. Some people hear the word "outside" and think of it as a speed play, etc. Sometimes it does get to the edge, or outside (by outside, I mean well outside the end of the LOS, because that's where the seam or wall is, but it's really exactly as you, Chad, and others have stated it is.
I also think that a problem people have with MW running this is that he is white and people see him as a fullback (not to say he cant play fb or that an fb couldnt run this) If it was Nick Bell, no one would have a problem with it.
99topdawg
Well-Known Member
Jon, one thing i think we've seen over the KF years is that too many of these young rbs come in and, as CP87 stated, want to cut back and also rush the play, or try to race to the edge before the edge is set. They also see a crease and try to hit it and it closes up a lot faster than it did in HS. Because of this, we cant just sit here (and I'm not saying you're doing this) and say that this young 3 or 4 star guy should be playing. They, most likely, have to overhaul they way they play running back before they can play in this offense, or at least get spot duty.
Another point i'd like to make is that if MW only runs up the middle on isos and inside zone plays, it's a lot easier to game plan for and bring multiple hats to the point of attack.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
Guys, this is refreshing. It's a hell of a lot better than the jr high pizzing matches that break out among our members with self-esteem and need-for-attention issues.
Keep the Xs and Os discussion coming! Thanks for putting some meat back into the site.
Keep the Xs and Os discussion coming! Thanks for putting some meat back into the site.
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
Agree...I am not advocating that Smith is the guy or Daniels is the guy..Daniels is gonna get his head taken off unless he stops running upright...I think Canzeri is ready to do some things. I agree with patience....I think Weisman has some of it because he doesn't have a jet gear
And I agree that you have to test the edge every now and then so people can't tee off...but when Weisman gets the ball and its a zone or stretch play, the backers are flat out pursuing to where they know he will be as nobody is fearing damage on the cutback lane. That's the home run lane. Weisman is at best a doubles hitter.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Well for what it's worth it really isn't a right or wrong thing though many of our more overt fans have made it somewhat personal at times. With that said I 100% concur on your thought about it normally being to the left as it would be with any tailback we have. Just based on the pure offensive line firepower we have over there. One small point of contention, you are a very big Hawkeye fan, not that I am not mind you. But I think you're such a hard core fan and so desirous of Iowa getting back to that big time level, that you've become convinced that MW can't lead us there. And while I get that and I don't even necessarily disagree that it would be nice to have a little more explosive back, as far as the cutback ability and whatnot. I completely disagree on him being untouched. Case in point go back and watch several of those videos. Jordan Cazeri can't make a few of those runs. On several of them he had to blast through a hole and you know that because he stumbled a little bit coming through, Jordan likely would've fallen down. And a couple of those runs, the Nebraska one in particular he absolutely annihilated a guy, knocked that guy backwards and kept running. As of yet we haven't seen anyone else on the roster do that. Maybe Daniels can, maybe Barkley Hill can, in fact I think Markel Smith may indeed be able to. But I really do think MW is greatly unappreciated buy our fans and as a result they see what they want to see. I'm not even suggesting you Jon but while Jordan's a decent running back but I haven't yet seen anything personally that makes me think he's the answer over MW. I personally think if there is an answer it's behind the two of them. I'm not a big homerun guy, the backs in the NFL I prefer are pound, pound, pound. Alfred Morris is a stud right now and he only ran a 4.64. I think Iowa needs a guy that can pound it and move the chains more than they need a guy that can make 60 yard touchdown runs. The caveat to that is, that guy needs to stay healthy, MW has not been able to. They do need some change of pace speed, and they need more than two running backs, period! They also need to be able to move the ball through the air when good run defenses bottle them up. A faster running back isn't going to help much against a great run defense.
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cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
PS.... I want to add I'm a Jordan Canzeri fan and I readily agree he still has more that he can show us. I just still think a power running back is what I prefer on my football team whether it be college or NFL. Also as another has already said the outside zone stretch isn't a classic cutback play. Because you're cutting back into a lot of traffic. The inside zone is more like an inside handoff or inside reverse like Michigan State used to kill us with back when Blake Ezor (anyone remember him) Lorenzo White, et al was still playing for them. It takes advantage of the linebackers and safeties angling and over running the play.
That's way less likely to happen on an outside zone stretch.
That's way less likely to happen on an outside zone stretch.
We dont have a home run hitter at RB. Canzeri might go the distance every now and then but that is it.
So you try to have the stay ahead of the chains.
The hawks need to mix it up but mostly play power, straight ahead football with their line and rbs. dont fall into patterns and pass to make the opponent pay for stacking the box.
I am very interested to see how L Daniels does this year as in does he have the stuff.
And I think Barkley Hill will move up the depth charts
So you try to have the stay ahead of the chains.
The hawks need to mix it up but mostly play power, straight ahead football with their line and rbs. dont fall into patterns and pass to make the opponent pay for stacking the box.
I am very interested to see how L Daniels does this year as in does he have the stuff.
And I think Barkley Hill will move up the depth charts
ICHawk24
Well-Known Member
He already is the #1 back on a legit B1G contender.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
More like "ever"...
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
I should have added the asterisk *Other than Iowa
As I keep repeating, there is a place for him in the offense, but Iowa has used him as much as they have these past two years out of necessity.
And yes, we all love seeing him truck someone. No, other backs on the team couldn't get extra yards like that after contact. But there are going to be some plays where Jordan cuts back or gets through the POA faster than MW so JC won't NEED to lower his shoulder to get the extra yards. He is tenths faster getting to the POA...and that is sometimes the difference between an OK gain or a huge gain
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
<<(B)ut he gets his yards only if the OL is pancaking and caving on that side, or if he lays a shoulder and gets to the second level after contact>>
God forbid a RB should need an OL to do an effective job up front.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
That's a reasonable breakdown of carries. But I still don't think it's impossible that a Barkley Hill, Leshun Daniels or a Markel Smith don't spring up the board. But honestly what we need to be successful is plays in the back field by our DL and LBers. We need our safeties to keep things in front of them, and make physical tackles. We need our Qbs to be consistent and throw catchable balls. And we need our wide receivers to run solid routes and catch those balls. We need decent health on the O-line and on the linebacking core in particular, and to drop our turnover total just a little bit.
Mostly all just execution stuff. We don't need the QB to throw 70 yard bullets or running back to run for 1500 yards. The best teams absolutely dominate and brutalize people on the lines. They make physical tackles, cause turnovers, and play clean football.
If we get lucky enough to have an all Big Ten tailback or a quarterback that can throw 70 yard bullets all the better but that's not what we need to be a 10 win team!
