Story: Bakari Evelyn Not Concerned w/ Competing Against Connor McCaffery

[InGoodCo]

Also, when I said "shy" - I stated it as a question ... to you @NikeHawk21 ? I don't think he cared about the coaches kid at all, he's just not happy at Iowa with his current role on the team. I didn't say he didn't want to compete with the coaches kid. IMO, that's a lot of assumption by both you and Rob.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I say "shy", you say "doesn't want to" - either way, he's shying from competing with the coaches kid is he not? We're mixing words here but saying the same shit, yet you're trying to make me somehow look to be putting words in your mouth. It's pointless, but you are always working the angle of trying to make other posters look bad to prop yourself up somehow, it's weird.

If what you were saying was accurate than yes it is semantics and wouldn’t be that big of a deal, but that’s not accurate in this instance.

I didn’t say and I wasn’t implying that he’s worried or shy about competing. You see in a perfect world the best players play the most minutes, but in reality that isn’t always the case. What I am saying is real or perceived it is likely that Moss felt he was losing minutes not because he hadn’t competed or proven to be a better basketball player than Connor, but because Connor was the coaches son. In my mind Isaiah Moss is head and shoulders a better basketball player than Connor McCaffery.

I’ll give you a real game example (Iowa @ PSU)

Moss: 21 Min / 12 Pts / 4-6 FGs / 4-4 3s / 2 Ast / 1 TO

McCaffery: 25 Min / 3 Pts / 1-4 FGs / 0-2 3s / 2 Ast / 1 TO

If I’m Moss I'm sitting there going wow I absolutely lit it up and only played 21 minutes while the coaches Son did hardly anything shooting 25% from the floor and got more minutes than me.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I do not remember Moss saying he was too shy to compete with the coach's kid. That seems like an assumption. If I was assuming, I would say Moss would tell you he didn't feel like he deserved losing minutes at the end of games and didn't feel like it was a level playing field.

IMO, I agreed with FM benching IM at times during his first two seasons. There were times when he just wasn't playing well. This season, there were more times when he was playing well and still was on the bench late in games where I felt he should be in. I think he saw the same thing. I think he was well invested and worked his ass off to get better.

There was one game in particular I remember (I think may have been Michigan) where Moss had a really good 1st half and may even have been leading the team in points I think maybe 16. He was getting to the rim in the 1st half and getting fouled. Game was close in the 2nd half and Moss was nowhere to be seen.

A similar phenomenon happens in youth sports. You'll have two coaches sons who may not be the best on the team but are batting in the 5th and 6th spots just killing the middle of the line-up and any momentum because of strike-outs, but have kids in the 8 & 9 spot who should be up but they become the sacrificial lambs for the coaches sons.

I think Moss and his minutes to a point became the sacrificial lamb. I don't blame him.

 

[PCHawk]

Moss is just a horrid ball handler that he almost had to be out of close games.when the pressure is on because the other team needs a steal, you do not want the ball in his hands. In my opinion Fran made the right choice to keep him out of close games, but sometimes made bad choices of leaving him out too long before crunch time.

 

[InGoodCo]

If what you were saying was accurate than yes it is semantics and wouldn’t be that big of a deal, but that’s not accurate in this instance.

I didn’t say and I wasn’t implying that he’s worried or shy about competing. You see in a perfect world the best players play the most minutes, but in reality that isn’t always the case. What I am saying is real or perceived it is likely that Moss felt he was losing minutes not because he hadn’t competed or proven to be a better basketball player than Connor, but because Connor was the coaches son. In my mind Isaiah Moss is head and shoulders a better basketball player than Connor McCaffery.

I’ll give you a real game example (Iowa @ PSU)

Moss: 21 Min / 12 Pts / 4-6 FGs / 4-4 3s / 2 Ast / 1 TO

McCaffery: 25 Min / 3 Pts / 1-4 FGs / 0-2 3s / 2 Ast / 1 TO

If I’m Moss I'm sitting there going wow I absolutely lit it up and only played 21 minutes while the coaches Son did hardly anything shooting 25% from the floor and got more minutes than me.

It is the same, I was literally asking you the question if you thought IM was shying away from the competition of playing against the coaches kid after 4 years in the program and getting as much playing time as he's been afforded. It was in reply to your statement that IM "doesn't want to" compete with the coaches kid.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, I was more so confirming what you were saying and wanting you to acknowledge that was what you were saying even after my rebuttal. I don't think that's the case 100% but it has some to do with it....But IM has known both the McCaffery boys for a long time and I think it's a fairly transparent talk within the program about where every one stands in the pecking order. You earn your minutes. It's a family. The game you laid out above, they won. Which is ultimate goal of the team, which is all that matters to me when you involve Fran's thought process.

But, Rob also thinks that IM left because of the coaches son too- as he said his assumption was as such. I do take a lot of stock in his opinion, so you guys are likely right. But I think I could also be right in how invested he was in the Iowa program. If IM decommitted from IA to AR, then decommitted from AR to come back to Iowa, you’d obviously have to be very leery of the stability of his commitment and investment into where ever he goes. That's my opinion. I like to have my opinion. I try and be respectful of other posters and their opinions, even when they differ from mine. I didn't mean to put word's in your mouth, and to be honest, I still don't think I did. I just like talking with you guys, so even if you wanna make me look dumb, I am not here to do that to you. You are both smart and knowledgeable about Iowa hoops, it's why I come here, not to try and insult your intelligence.

Both smart dudes in my opinion - I don't know exactly why you try and devalue my opinion as hard you do, but you do and it makes for some fun debates.

 

[InGoodCo]

Moss is just a horrid ball handler that he almost had to be out of close games.when the pressure is on because the other team needs a steal, you do not want the ball in his hands. In my opinion Fran made the right choice to keep him out of close games, but sometimes made bad choices of leaving him out too long before crunch time.

In multiple instances, under pressure or in critical moments of the game, Moss rarely made a play before last season. He was much better last year and probably should have earned more minutes late in games, but let's not get crazy. IM's minutes down the stretch of the year were much much higher than Connor's. It wasn't even close in the post season. He literally was in line for the pay off year and bolted. I don't think that Fran's kids had that big of an impact. I am sure it was a part of it.

 

[NikeHawk21]

It is the same, I was literally asking you the question if you thought IM was shying away from the competition of playing against the coaches kid after 4 years in the program and getting as much playing time as he's been afforded. It was in reply to your statement that IM "doesn't want to" compete with the coaches kid.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, I was more so confirming what you were saying and wanting you to acknowledge that was what you were saying even after my rebuttal. I don't think that's the case 100% but it has some to do with it....But IM has known both the McCaffery boys for a long time and I think it's a fairly transparent talk within the program about where every one stands in the pecking order. You earn your minutes. It's a family. The game you laid out above, they won. Which is ultimate goal of the team, which is all that matters to me when you involve Fran's thought process.

But, Rob also thinks that IM left because of the coaches son too- as he said his assumption was as such. I do take a lot of stock in his opinion, so you guys are likely right. But I think I could also be right in how invested he was in the Iowa program. If IM decommitted from IA to AR, then decommitted from AR to come back to Iowa, you’d obviously have to be very leery of the stability of his commitment and investment into where ever he goes. That's my opinion. I like to have my opinion. I try and be respectful of other posters and their opinions, even when they differ from mine. I didn't mean to put word's in your mouth, and to be honest, I still don't think I did. I just like talking with you guys, so even if you wanna make me look dumb, I am not here to do that to you. You are both smart and knowledgeable about Iowa hoops, it's why I come here, not to try and insult your intelligence.

Both smart dudes in my opinion - I don't know exactly why you try and devalue my opinion as hard you do, but you do and it makes for some fun debates.

I’m not trying to put you down or devalue you, but as I’ve told you in the past words matter.

You literally still have the sequence of events wrong. The posts are there on the previous page of this thread. I never even had a chance to reply to your post about Moss “shying” away from competition before you had already professed to Rob that some other poster had said he was shying away from the competition.

If I had the chance to speak for myself I would have told you as I did above that it wasn’t about competing, it was more about the real or perceived notion of the playing field was not level.

 

[Tierney]

Moss seems like the quiet type so I doubt he will ever say much about why he transferred. I would of rather seen Moss at the end of games than McCaffery, but McCaffery was a lot more aggressive than Moss.

 

[InGoodCo]

I’m not trying to put you down or devalue you, but as I’ve told you in the past words matter.

You literally still have the sequence of events wrong. The posts are there on the previous page of this thread. I never even had a chance to reply to your post about Moss “shying” away from competition before you had already professed to Rob that some other poster had said he was shying away from the competition.

If I had the chance to speak for myself I would have told you as I did above that it wasn’t about competing, it was more about the real or perceived notion of the playing field was not level.

"shied away" - "didn't want to" it's the same thing. Period. I don't have any sequence wrong. Rob answered before you did, and I said I was replying to you. You have no other agenda than trying to devalue what I am saying. It's weird.

 

[NikeHawk21]

 

[NikeHawk21]

"shied away" - "didn't want to" it's the same thing. Period. I don't have any sequence wrong. Rob answered before you did, and I said I was replying to you. You have no other agenda than trying to devalue what I am saying. It's weird.

Again I’m not trying to devalue you. I felt you spoke for me and I still do. Go back and read the posts. I was literally the first person to bring up the McCaffery’s being a reason for Moss leaving. Here is what I said:

“I think he was worried about the two McCaffery boys cutting into his play time so he left, can’t say I totally blame him there”

Then you replied with your question

“If you're shy on having to compete with the coaches kid after spending 4 years in a program, 3 of them as a starter and you were already 4th in minutes on the team with one of the ones in front of you leaving for the NBA, then what else could Fran have done?”

Before I even had a chance, an opportunity to respond to why I think Moss felt the McCaffery’s would cut into his minutes (as you know now it’s not because he’s scared of competition he knows and feels he’s a better player than Cmac - he is, its because he doesn’t feel the distribution is fair). To repeat before I even have a chance to respond I read your reply to Rob

“Honestly, I didn't say he was too shy to compete with the coaches kid. I was replying to someone else who said he was.”

So again I still feel you incorrectly spoke for me and you are still wrong about the sequence of events being that I was the first one to bring the Mccafery’s into the discussion and before my second post on the matter you had already opined that I said Moss was too shy to compete with the coaches kid. The posts are all there go back and read them.

 

[InGoodCo]

Again I’m not trying to devalue you. I felt you spoke for me and I still do. Go back and read the posts. I was literally the first person to bring up the McCaffery’s being a reason for Moss leaving. Here is what I said:

“I think he was worried about the two McCaffery boys cutting into his play time so he left, can’t say I totally blame him there”

Then you replied with your question

“If you're shy on having to compete with the coaches kid after spending 4 years in a program, 3 of them as a starter and you were already 4th in minutes on the team with one of the ones in front of you leaving for the NBA, then what else could Fran have done?”

Before I even had a chance, an opportunity to respond to why I think Moss felt the McCaffery’s would cut into his minutes (as you know now it’s not because he’s scared of competition he knows and feels he’s a better player than Cmac - he is, its because he doesn’t feel the distribution is fair). To repeat before I even have a chance to respond I read your reply to Rob

“Honestly, I didn't say he was too shy to compete with the coaches kid. I was replying to someone else who said he was.”

So again I still feel you incorrectly spoke for me and you are still wrong about the sequence of event being that I was the first one to bring the Mccafery’s into the discussion and before my second post on the matter you had already opined that I said Moss was too shy to compete with the coaches kid. The posts are all there go back and read them.

I read them, I am not getting any sequence wrong. I didn't speak for you, I told Rob I was replying to you. Shying away from competition not wanting to compete with the coaches kid means the exact same thing. Period. Just different words to say the exact same thing. If you weren't trying to devalue my opinion, you would say "oh yeah, well, yeah, ok," and we'd move on, but you don't...instead, you bring up how you're used to dealing with me.... ya know, cause you're not trying to devalue my opinion.

 

[InGoodCo]

You can also devalue my opinion - I am A OK with it. You go on being you. My opinion isn't that valuable but I'm gonna go ahead on giving it. I just think it's weird for you to always do it with me. It's a different debating tactic, but one of your go to's. I have taken things you have said out of context. I have put words in your mouth. We have history. I have apologized for it. I didn't really do anything out of line here, but I still apologized for doing it anyways. That's ok. I don't really know what I am talking about, cause ya know, I am not in Moss's camp. It's only my speculation. You have a weird little attraction w/ me though and I find it cute, I love to come on here and debate with you. I personally don't go into each debate thinking "Well, there goes ole NIKE, up to his old tricks" like seemingly every conversation we have goes with you vs me. I think you're well spoken, you think I'm an idiot. ROLE right! I got it. I know what you are saying and doing. It's all good man!

 

[NikeHawk21]

I read them, I am not getting any sequence wrong. I didn't speak for you, I told Rob I was replying to you. Shying away from competition not wanting to compete with the coaches kid means the exact same thing. Period. Just different words to say the exact same thing. If you weren't trying to devalue my opinion, you would say "oh yeah, well, yeah, ok," and we'd move on, but you don't...instead, you bring up how you're used to dealing with me.... ya know, cause you're not trying to devalue my opinion.

I never said he was shying away from competition or didn’t want to compete. You made the assumption to get there after I said he felt he would lose minutes to the McCaffery boys.

Is this the first time you’ve ever heard of Son’s of coaches potentially getting preferential treatment in sports? At Iowa?

Another key point here is the sentence “I don’t blame him.” If he left Iowa simply out of fear to compete with other players would it make sense for me to say I don’t blame him? Not really no.

You got the response you got because you implied some things that weren’t accurate and spoke for me. You likely were a little bit flustered when Rob called you on the shy statement, I get it.

I’m over it, you’ve at least attempted to show the assumption (albeit the incorrect one) that you made in order to imply that I was saying Moss is shying away from competition.

 

[InGoodCo]

I never said he was shying away from competition or didn’t want to compete. You made the assumption to get there after I said he felt he would lose minutes to the McCaffery boys.

Is this the first time you’ve ever heard of Son’s of coaches potentially getting preferential treatment in sports? At Iowa?

Another key point here is the sentence “I don’t blame him.” If he left Iowa simply out of fear to compete with other players would it make sense for me to say I don’t blame him? Not really no.

You got the response you got because you implied some things that weren’t accurate and spoke for me. You likely were a little bit flustered when Rob called you on the shy statement, I get it.

I’m over it, you’ve at least attempted to show the assumption (albeit the incorrect one) that you made in order to imply that I was saying Moss is shying away from competition.

You said "I think he was worried about the two McCaffery boys cutting into his play time so he left,"

I said "If you're shy on having to compete with the coaches kid after 4 years in the program" to you

Rob said " I do not remember Moss saying he was too shy to compete with the coach's kid"

I said "I didn't say he was too shy to compete with the coaches kid. I was replying to someone else who said he was."

"Too Shy" and "doesn't want to" compete with the coaches kids for minutes means the EXACT same thing. I can NOT help you if you think otherwise.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I said "If you're shy on having to compete with the coaches kid after 4 years in the program" to you

Rob said " I do not remember Moss saying he was too shy to compete with the coach's kid"

I said "I didn't say he was too shy to compete with the coaches kid. I was replying to someone else who said he was."

"Too Shy" and "doesn't want to" compete with the coaches kid means the EXACT same thing. I can NOT help you if you think otherwise.

That’s a great conversation between you and Rob, so where did I say he doesn’t want to compete the coaches kid? The only thing I said was:

“I think he was worried about the two McCaffery boys cutting into his play time so he left, can’t say I totally blame him there”

So this is the last time I will explain this. Your assumption was that I was saying he is worried about competing with the McCaffery boys when in reality I think he was just worried about unfair treatment en lieu of the coaches sons. A distinct difference in my opinion, which I why I felt you were trying to speak for me.

Again I’m over it. I get where your incorrect assumption came from.

 

[InGoodCo]

That’s a great conversation between you and Rob, so where did I say he doesn’t want to compete the coaches kid? The only thing I said was:

“I think he was worried about the two McCaffery boys cutting into his play time so he left, can’t say I totally blame him there”

So this is the last time I will explain this. Your assumption was that I was saying he is worried about competing with the McCaffery boys when in reality I think he was just worried about unfair treatment en lieu of the coaches sons. A distinct difference in my opinion, which I why I felt you were trying to speak for me.

Again I’m over it. I get where your incorrect assumption came from.

it's not an incorrect assumption. I assumed right on the nose. I assumed you meant because the players in question were the coaches kids. Being worried about the coaches kid cutting into your playing time is shying away from the competition. He aint up to it. He is worried. He doesn't want to compete with them. Whether that be fair, ill conceived, reality or otherwise. Its the coaches son. I don't blame him either. I didn't assume anything incorrectly, you may have assumed I did tho.

 

[WindsorHawk]

There was one game in particular I remember (I think may have been Michigan) where Moss had a really good 1st half and may even have been leading the team in points I think maybe 16. He was getting to the rim in the 1st half and getting fouled. Game was close in the 2nd half and Moss was nowhere to be seen.

A similar phenomenon happens in youth sports. You'll have two coaches sons who may not be the best on the team but are batting in the 5th and 6th spots just killing the middle of the line-up and any momentum because of strike-outs, but have kids in the 8 & 9 spot who should be up but they become the sacrificial lambs for the coaches sons.

I think Moss and his minutes to a point became the sacrificial lamb. I don't blame him.

I always find these D-1 and youth sports comparisons to be amusing...outlandish is a better word. And I find generalizations to be completely wrong.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

Hope Isaiah isn't too shy to speak to Coach Self when he's the 4th or 5th guy coming off the bench.

 

[PCHawk]

As a 3rd party observer of this conflict, I'll offer my 2 cents. At first I agreed with InGoodCo that he was accurately speaking for what someone else said. But after Nike mentioned the distinction between being afraid to compete and being afraid there isnt goong to be a fair competition, I see how he never actually said what InGoodCo thought he said. Therefore, he was actually putting words into his mouth, albeit unintentional.