Stop telling people how to feel

^^ I detinitely was not perfect at that age. I'm just saying that I thinik over time, we have stopped referring to this age as young men, women or adults and classify them as kids which I think of as up to somewhere like 16-18 years. If they do something wrong, I think many of them think they are going to be punished like a child would be. I think that gets in their head.

That age group can live on their own, serve our country, drink legally, father a child and expect to support the said child. In addition, if doing something wrong, that age can be tried as an adult, not as a juvenile.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
If your old enough to have a gun in your hand and go to war you're not a 'kid' to me. When I was that age I hated being treated/called a kid. I think society/parents have been perpetuating the behavior of younger folks to be immature and not take responsibility for themselves so what incentive is there for those 'kids' to 'grow up' Why on earth should a 26 year old be on their parents insurance? That blows my mind and shouldn't be the case. How many 18-24 yr olds that are perfectly capable of being on their own still live with mommy and daddy? They do it because of wanting to maintain their 'standard of living' They want free cell phone/internet/tv/etc. They have a nicer place to live and all that rather then whatever they'd get being on their own.
LaVar Ball is a pretty good example of an overbearing parent in the sports world... He seems to think Steve Alford should bear more blame for what happened to his kid in China then his kid.... Such is life nothing is my fault no matter how old you are it don't seem like. Blame is tossed around like STDs nowadays.
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BINGO! Terrific example as well. That is exactly what I am saying and the Balls are solidifying the point. Let's not hold the "kid's" accountable and bail them out. Worse yet, when it gets uncomfortable and you aren't getting what you want, flee. It's F'ed up.
 
pythagoras said:
I'll tell you right now if you're 19 - 22 y/o you're not a kid but you're far from a full adult. Most people don't start getting their shit together until their mid 20s. All your examples are coddling by the parents. That's on the PARENTS not the age group of humans you're trying to define, there IS a difference.
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I don't think I or Hawkfnnth are saying they are totally adult at that point. We agree they still have a lot to learn. There is not kid to adult on off switch, but I think they can start to be referred to as adults and start to be held accountable as adults. It's more the mindset of today.

Again, I was not perfect at that age and made bad decisions, but I dealt with the consequences. I didn't convalesce in my parents home and paid my way. I didn't have it in my mind that daddy was going to bail me out at the age of 22.
 
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pythagoras said:
I'll tell you right now if you're 19 - 22 y/o you're not a kid but you're far from a full adult. Most people don't start getting their shit together until their mid 20s. All your examples are coddling by the parents. That's on the PARENTS not the age group of humans you're trying to define, there IS a difference.
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Oh, by the way, I agree with everything you state. This is a parent issue and coddling. My point is that it is the mindset of the parents (as in the Balls). The young individual is the by-product of the problem. I agree. That's the evolution that I spoke of, and it all goes back to referring to these individuals in this age group as kids.
 
HuckFinn said:
The claim that young adults in this day and age are not being held accountable is one of societies greatest myths. You may want to recall some of your own issues and bad choices before you make this faulty assumption about young people. What evidence would you like to present to defend your position? I mean no offense to you personally. I just challenge your position on young people.
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This wasn't directed at me, but the "snowflakiness" and lack of accountability of today's young people is sort of a pet peeve of mine right now, so I figured I'd chime in.

First off, the largest % of people under 40 still living at home is the largest it's ever been. When I was growing up, once you were done with college, it wasn't an option to go back home. You went from college to the workforce.

Second, college campuses now need "safe spaces" so like-minded people can gather without "fear" of having to hear a differing point of view. It used to be that one of the main mission of colleges was to bring together people of varied backgrounds and experiences in order to allow for diversity of thought and the opportunity to experience, hear, and understand other points of view. Now, we just let people wallow in their own biases, hatreds, and misunderstandings with other like minded snowflakes with no threat of being "challenged" as being a complete moron.

Those are just a couple, out of numerous, examples of how the adult world is no longer demanding responsibility and accountability from it's younger generation(s).....
 
pythagoras said:
I'll tell you right now if you're 19 - 22 y/o you're not a kid but you're far from a full adult. Most people don't start getting their shit together until their mid 20s. All your examples are coddling by the parents. That's on the PARENTS not the age group of humans you're trying to define, there IS a difference.
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Sure there's a big difference between those. Just like there's a big difference between 35 and 45 and 50 and 70. But there being a difference doesn't make an 18 yr old less capable of being an adult. And parents are largely the reasons why their kids are of the maturity level that they are at. The teachers and education they have along with friends they run with do too. But parents/guardians are their overwhelming primary influences on things.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
BINGO! Terrific example as well. That is exactly what I am saying and the Balls are solidifying the point. Let's not hold the "kid's" accountable and bail them out. Worse yet, when it gets uncomfortable and you aren't getting what you want, flee. It's F'ed up.
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Yeah quitting/moving on is such a common thing. On a totally different level of it you could correlate what KD did in leaving to go to GS. If you can't beat em join em mentality. Because he cost himself money doing that it wasn't a money decision for him.
In regards to that Ball kid that just left UCLA I feel bad that he can't speak up for himself. Sounds like there's a zero percent chance he's ready or would be for the NBA next yr and his Dad is so delusional in thinking he is. I don't think he realizes just how 1 in a million the oldest son he has is. But that's what a childhood of brainwashing a kid can do. Even if he has an independent thought from his Dad he wouldn't dare share it to him let alone publicly.... That could end up really bad like what happened to Todd Marinovich I'm afraid.
 
tomorrow at work, say this out loud:



" A woman, a dog and a walnut tree,

The more you beat 'em the better ye be"


That was from the movie Red Badge of Courage


you can't hurt people's feelings these days, even accidentally -

see you at the unemployment office.
 
NCHawker said:
tomorrow at work, say this out loud:



" A woman, a dog and a walnut tree,

The more you beat 'em the better ye be"


That was from the movie Red Badge of Courage


you can't hurt people's feelings these days, even accidentally -

see you at the unemployment office.
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And your point?
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Sure there's a big difference between those. Just like there's a big difference between 35 and 45 and 50 and 70. But there being a difference doesn't make an 18 yr old less capable of being an adult. And parents are largely the reasons why their kids are of the maturity level that they are at. The teachers and education they have along with friends they run with do too. But parents/guardians are their overwhelming primary influences on things.
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No, not really. Dad of six and one of the biggest things I've learned is how little control as a parent that you have. Saying this specifically to the comment about maturity level. Kids progress differently and a lot is beyond control. Its not that simple. And I'm the dad of 2 engineers, an attorney/military officer and another grown one who could never have the maturity to finish college...not anytime soon.

There are influencers of course. They have white parents, both of which have BS degrees and one w/a Masters. They went to an accomplished public high school and a top tier Big University on Academics. The parents are in their first marriage. They live in a nice middle/upper middle class suburb. The attended Church regularly and still do.

The child that can't make it past 1 year of JC had the same genetics and opportunities.

Some of the things I did as a parent they still are mad about. I didn't pay for a lot of their college and used driving privilege as behavior modification.

But a blanket statement about most. about the parents in re to maturity I don't think holds water.

Behavior and maturity are not necessarily the same thing.
 
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HawkGold said:
No, not really. Dad of six and one of the biggest things I've learned is how little control as a parent that you have. Saying this specifically to the comment about maturity level. Kids progress differently and a lot is beyond control. Its not that simple. And I'm the dad of 2 engineers, an attorney/military officer and another grown one who could never have the maturity to finish college...not anytime soon.
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Well of course there's exceptions. My brother and I have very different personalities and had different maturity levels growing up 3 yrs a part in the same house as well I get your point. How can there be a Doctor and a do nothing kid come from the same house is what your getting at when occasionally it does. Sure individual accountability is huge.
However kids that come from two parent households (where they give a darn about them) with a steady middle class income have a way better chance at being more mature and making something of themselves then from one with just one parent and less income (or no income) The country is pretty big and I was speaking from more of an in general sense. Plenty of exceptions to everything in which has been brought up here
 
SpiderRico said:
This wasn't directed at me, but the "snowflakiness" and lack of accountability of today's young people is sort of a pet peeve of mine right now, so I figured I'd chime in.

First off, the largest % of people under 40 still living at home is the largest it's ever been. When I was growing up, once you were done with college, it wasn't an option to go back home. You went from college to the workforce.

Second, college campuses now need "safe spaces" so like-minded people can gather without "fear" of having to hear a differing point of view. It used to be that one of the main mission of colleges was to bring together people of varied backgrounds and experiences in order to allow for diversity of thought and the opportunity to experience, hear, and understand other points of view. Now, we just let people wallow in their own biases, hatreds, and misunderstandings with other like minded snowflakes with no threat of being "challenged" as being a complete moron.

Those are just a couple, out of numerous, examples of how the adult world is no longer demanding responsibility and accountability from it's younger generation(s).....
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Interesting points. I think the number of young people living at home is a product of an economy that does not give them many options. Home prices are way up and down payments are, as well. Apartments are running well over $1000 a month plus utilities for even a basic one bedroom. Wages have stagnated, according to numerous sources, for nearly 30 years. Health insurance costs have forced more people into debt, bankruptcy and lack of care than any time in history. I guess I am not surprised that more young people are living at home.

Safe places on campuses are a relatively new issue. I can see your point, but would also argue that the need for safe places is now necessary given the amount of violent confrontations between and among groups with various political views. We no longer engage in intelligent discourse, only zero sum games where only one view can be expressed, and that is the one you (not you) hold.

Because I hold onto the vast majority of my progressive (liberal, if you must) views, I have been labeled a "snowflake" due to those positions. If I could tell some of those accusers the real story behind my life, it would melt a lot of snowflakes.

Appreciate your responses!
 
CJHawkeye said:
I responded to a tweet today that got under my skin. It wasn't a unique statement, in fact it was probably more parroting a sentiment I hear from time to time rather than a unique thought by this individual. I won't directly quote it but it was something to the effect that "adults" are being too salty on twitter. Yes we are under performing but stop tying your self worth to kids.

I take exception to this sentiment. First of all, F you. I don't walk around telling you how to feel. I express my disdain with the state of Hawkeye sports. You're free not to. I don't follow you around telling you you're an idiot for being positive.

Second, the idea that people who are expressing dissatisfaction are tying their "self-worth" to a bunch of kids playing a game represents multiple logical fallacies. Its a classic straw man. It knocks down a (faulty) premise created by the individual making the argument. I never said "God, the Hawkeyes need to be better because they are bad and that is making my life bad." This person inferred that. Also its an attempt ad an ad hominim attack. "Well you're so wrapped in up in this, you must be a loser." As I responded, that is no different from me saying "Well you accept this mediocrity, you must be a low performer in life."

I don't expect people to adhere to "rules of debate and proper argument" on twitter, but this concept that people who are unhappy and unwilling to accept the current level of performance "are not real fans", "need to stop tying their self worth to kids playing a game", are "losers" needs to stop. As I said, it is no more valid than claiming that people who "will always be a fan no matter what" are mediocre losers in life.
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I find it quite ironic that some on this board who chastise those who are 'defeatist in their attitudes towards Iowa football' cried/cry mightily over schemes employed by Davis, KOK and Ferentz the younger, for examples. Who knows how much latitude an OC has in a KF system? The evidence seems to indicate, overwhelmingly, that latitude is not huge.
 
HuckFinn said:
Interesting points. I think the number of young people living at home is a product of an economy that does not give them many options. Home prices are way up and down payments are, as well. Apartments are running well over $1000 a month plus utilities for even a basic one bedroom. Wages have stagnated, according to numerous sources, for nearly 30 years. Health insurance costs have forced more people into debt, bankruptcy and lack of care than any time in history. I guess I am not surprised that more young people are living at home.

Safe places on campuses are a relatively new issue. I can see your point, but would also argue that the need for safe places is now necessary given the amount of violent confrontations between and among groups with various political views. We no longer engage in intelligent discourse, only zero sum games where only one view can be expressed, and that is the one you (not you) hold.

Because I hold onto the vast majority of my progressive (liberal, if you must) views, I have been labeled a "snowflake" due to those positions. If I could tell some of those accusers the real story behind my life, it would melt a lot of snowflakes.

Appreciate your responses!
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This. Great post. Context matters. Some folks just don't seem to get that being 18,19,20 years old today is nothing like being that age even 20 years ago, let alone 30 or 40 years ago. Funny to think all the people who typically bitch about Millennials are the folks in the generation that has raised them. This is a parenting problem way more than a kid problem.
 
HuckFinn said:
Interesting points. I think the number of young people living at home is a product of an economy that does not give them many options. Home prices are way up and down payments are, as well. Apartments are running well over $1000 a month plus utilities for even a basic one bedroom. Wages have stagnated, according to numerous sources, for nearly 30 years. Health insurance costs have forced more people into debt, bankruptcy and lack of care than any time in history. I guess I am not surprised that more young people are living at home.

Safe places on campuses are a relatively new issue. I can see your point, but would also argue that the need for safe places is now necessary given the amount of violent confrontations between and among groups with various political views. We no longer engage in intelligent discourse, only zero sum games where only one view can be expressed, and that is the one you (not you) hold.

Because I hold onto the vast majority of my progressive (liberal, if you must) views, I have been labeled a "snowflake" due to those positions. If I could tell some of those accusers the real story behind my life, it would melt a lot of snowflakes.

Appreciate your responses!
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Oh, and I've either visited or worked with nearly 40 large public universities and have never heard of or seen so called safe spaces. Not to say they don't exist, but I think this is largely an over blown thing that idiots tout so they can disparage young folks and discredit our higher education system. Snowflakes that whine about there being safe spaces know that educated folks tend to not vote the way that they do.
 
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