Stability...
- Thread starter Fryowa
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NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
The trouble with KF is that he has been here so long he is competing against himself. Fans always want more and some fans get the sense that the program is stagnant simply because its not 2002 or 2015 every year. If you take out the first couple seasons where the cupboard was damn bare when he arrived, he wins 8+ games a year, and for the last 6 seasons, its closer to 9. That is a pretty salty accomplishment for a school with good but not great tradition, and from a small midwestern state with two Power 5 schools located in it. KF's record is really damn good.
Also, recall that Hayden Fry, who holds God-like status in this state for good reasons, had 7 of his 20 seasons where he was .500 or below. KF's record is better than HF's in almost every measurable respect, and what Fry did was pretty amazing too.
I have said it on this board over and over again. Appreciate what we have. Grasping to move up to that next step can cause you to tumble back down the stairs in a damn fucking hurry. How you doing, Nebraska?
Also, recall that Hayden Fry, who holds God-like status in this state for good reasons, had 7 of his 20 seasons where he was .500 or below. KF's record is better than HF's in almost every measurable respect, and what Fry did was pretty amazing too.
I have said it on this board over and over again. Appreciate what we have. Grasping to move up to that next step can cause you to tumble back down the stairs in a damn fucking hurry. How you doing, Nebraska?
JoeyLabasForPresident
Well-Known Member
This has more to do with factors outside of a HC’s control than the opposite. Bill Belichick and Nick Saban could take on Navy, Vanderbilt, or Purdue as a joint retirement project and they aren’t going to be able to create the next Bama or Ohio State.
Now if Kirk had accepted the Michigan job when they wanted him, so long as he survived the two or three years of initial tumult I believe wholeheartedly he would have built a perennial double digit win team. He’s damn near done that at Iowa for fucks sake, but Nebraska, Iowa, and the like have to realize where their ceiling lies over any long period of time, and it’s not “elite” in any exclusive sense.
Teams like ours can go the low variance Iowa/Wisconsin approach or the high variance Purdue/Minnesota approach. We don’t have the luxury of acting like Ohio State.
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ssckelley
Well-Known Member
That's actually lower than I thought
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
That understates the 2020 team because we would have crushed Michigan and Missouri if they weren't too chickenshit to play us.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Nick had quietly amassed a pretty damned impressive team at Michigan State. He walked into a tire fire situation and by the end had Plaxico and TJ Duckett and beat Michigan and Ohio in his final year, which was only marred by losses to Drew Brees and Ron Dayne, two of the greatest Big Ten players ever. I don't think he could do much with Navy or Vanderbilt, but if he rolled into some mid tier team he could probably work one more miracle. He's getting pretty old, though.
JoeyLabasForPresident
Well-Known Member
I have my doubts. Compare Saban at MSU for five seasons to Kirk’s first five or six at Iowa. Which is more impressive? Both walked into remarkably similar situations. If Saban stayed, maybe he does turn that one good season into some sustained success, but then it may just as well have been an outlier.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected!
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Meh, the man brought in Dantonio. Dantonio then went on to be the DC at Ohio the year they won the natty, then he had a stint at Cincinnati and went back to MSU as the head man. Dantonio won the conference 3 freaking times. Saban worked a miracle there.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I am both a Steelers and a Hawkeye fan. The answer must be the style and colors of the jerseys! That alone could really add to a story or segment on this. Tie in the NFL Steelers, Iowa Hawkeyes and how Hayden Fry seeked permission to copy the uniform. Then both teams end up with a couple coaches each in 45 years.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
This has been the funny thing with Ferentz. He's always had this kick ass season every 4-5 years, with some mediocre seasons in between. He's always been quite consistent and usually fields a competitive team. What I mean by that is opposing teams realize that Iowa is a tough out and they are not a sure win on the schedule prior to a season starting.
Yes, Iowa admin has a pretty long leash with coaches as they realize Iowa is a developmental program, so that stability has helped for a team like Iowa.
Again, Ferentz pulls an outstanding season out of the hat every 5 years which kind of reboots anybody who may have been questioning the program. The yo yo over the years has been kind of funny.
Some teams would have pulled the trigger for a new coach. Many of those teams have had 7 coaches over that span and still haven't found consistency. See Nebraska. That isn't good either.
SwirlinLingerie
Well-Known Member
I'm generally a big Kirk fan. The only issue with that kind of longevity (which can also include the AD or top jobs in the administration) is that it can lead to an insular climate. I think it is typically a good idea to have some eventual turnover in leadership positions to ensure healthy checks and balances. That didn't happen at Penn State, and I think Iowa has faced issues because of it too.
I'm curious to see how the 40 plus years of stability impacts the next coaching transition.
I'm curious to see how the 40 plus years of stability impacts the next coaching transition.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Whitey Herzog managed the first MLB game I ever went to. They played Philadelphia in St. Louis. Ozzy was at short and did his patented back flip during the game.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Da ya goober. The complacency is referring to the Iowa administration or fans. The leash Iowa gives.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
What ever Iowa needs to pay a guy who can make Iowa a football factory by generating wins and NFL talent. I say we pay that guy whatever we can to sustain that as long as possible. If there was only a guy out there that could do that... oh wait. Yeah, the last 2 guys we've had. We are spoiled but aint it great? We have a guy who has turned Iowa football into a machine, a brand that is in the elite company with the best 20 to 25 programs in the game. Why wouldn't we want more of this? Who doesn't want more of that? I do - please sign me up for as many years of Kirk Ferentz as he will allow me, as an Iowa fan to enjoy.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Damn good post.
Dan McCarney coached himself out of Ames for the very same reason you stated above. He was good for their program.
The rest of what you state is a good reminder to appreciate what we have and having the 9th most wins compared to the other teams on the list is damn impressive. We don't want to end up yo yo'ing with coaches. That is death to a program like Iowa. Chasing coaches is not usually good.
See Nebraska...........again!
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
The great Nick Saban was at Michigan State for a cup of tea. I remember Kirk Ferentz beating his Mich St. team, at least once. This supports your point above.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
This is a good point. The game evolves. Can a coach being there for 25+ years evolve with the changes.
Add into that the portal system and NIL now. Administration might now have to put emphasis on completely different attributes of a coach for various reasons as evolution occurs.
Great point!
I would say that there were a couple of times where some programs would have considered making a change that Iowa didn't. KF built up so much good will with those 3 straight top 10 seasons that when we hit that dip in 06-07 that was going to be overlooked.
But when 2011/2012 happened that was a bit of a crossroads coming off Rhabado and all that. Many an AD coulda pulled the plug on things after that yr. So between that and going 4-8 and Greg Davis if a change woulda been made it wouldn't/shouldn't have been the most surprising thing ever.
But like Fry has said I think continuity/Stability won out and that's what got him through that. Granted we haven't had a 4-8 yr since either and somehow throwing Doyle under the bus was enough to get out from under all that racial stuff. If anymore 4-8 yrs had popped up though things coulda been different...
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Never happened. Nick beat Iowa 49-3 in Kurt's inaugural season. Nick then left for LSU after that season. Kurt did get the best of Nick once during his tenure at LSU. You probably didn't see the game, but it was the most masterful thing I've ever seen. O'Keefe got us out to a big lead, Nick gouged Norm's defense and they took the lead late. Then, as the clock was winding down, O'Keefe dialed up a touchdown pass from Drew Tate to Warren Holloway that was put on the board as time expired.
Kurt's 1-1 record against Nick is I believe up there with the best among active coaches. Dabo, Hugh Freeze and Jimbo are the only active coaches with multiple wins against Nick. Even Kirby has only bested Nick once. If Ferentz finishes with a .500 career record against Nick that will be a damned big accomplishment.
