Sports stereotypes

[99topdawg]

I wasn't sure if it was an appropriate topic for the football thread so I thought I'd bring my thoughts here.

First off, I don't have a problem with Coop not going last night. If he's not right for the team, no problem. I never thought that he would go in the first round. My question has always been whether or not he goes before TJ Tampa from ISU whose basically the same size as Coop. All the talk has been about moving him to safety. I thought that when Iowa put him at CB. Is this going to hurt his NFL chances?

To a certain extent, you have to appease the fan base. They talked about someone from the Lions front office joking about being run out of town if they traded out of the first round (the draft was held in Detroit). What if a trade was best for the team? Can you imagine a fan base's reaction if their team drafted a white CB in the first round? Did that factor into it? If he was black with his on field resume, character, and underwear testing, would he still be undrafted?

He obviously has incredible return skills and his RAS score that is best for all DB's this year and the 39th out of 2473 since 1987. A scout that's worked in analytics behind the scenes for ESPN and the NFL network for more than a decade said:

When I’m looking at various players, I always like to make a note of who I think can be a Hall-of-Famer. They’re true unicorns athletically like Calvin Johnson, or they’re extremely large but move like a small person, like Julius Peppers or Derrick Henry. Davante Adams’ release. Barry Sanders’ ability to change direction. They all have something.
For me, DeJean has that. He's a great athlete, yes, having posted a 9.85 RAS based on his pro day, but the way he reads the entire field, from the QB's eyes to the receiver's position is almost supernatural.

Is it the case where certain players are put in or removed from certain positions because of a certain trait, etc? For example, left handed catchers are a rarity. You hardly see any. The main reason this all started? Catchers don't pitch and lefties pitch. If a lefty isn't good enough to catch (arm, athleticism, moxy etc.) then he's most likely not going to be able to catch.

Black QB's? Back in the day, if they were good enough to play QB, they were seen as athletic and were moved to a skill position.

Would Greg Maddux have even made it to rookie ball if he came out of HS/College today? When he started his career, he would touch 90 and ended his career throwing mid-80's.

My TLDR question is, are their stereotypes that exist or is it a crazy notion to think that anything like this would keep a team from taking the better player in whatever sport at whatever position?

 

[Fryowa]

I wasn't sure if it was an appropriate topic for the football thread so I thought I'd bring my thoughts here.

First off, I don't have a problem with Coop not going last night. If he's not right for the team, no problem. I never thought that he would go in the first round. My question has always been whether or not he goes before TJ Tampa from ISU whose basically the same size as Coop. All the talk has been about moving him to safety. I thought that when Iowa put him at CB. Is this going to hurt his NFL chances?

To a certain extent, you have to appease the fan base. They talked about someone from the Lions front office joking about being run out of town if they traded out of the first round (the draft was held in Detroit). What if a trade was best for the team? Can you imagine a fan base's reaction if their team drafted a white CB in the first round? Did that factor into it? If he was black with his on field resume, character, and underwear testing, would he still be undrafted?

He obviously has incredible return skills and his RAS score that is best for all DB's this year and the 39th out of 2473 since 1987. A scout that's worked in analytics behind the scenes for ESPN and the NFL network for more than a decade said:



Is it the case where certain players are put in or removed from certain positions because of a certain trait, etc? For example, left handed catchers are a rarity. You hardly see any. The main reason this all started? Catchers don't pitch and lefties pitch. If a lefty isn't good enough to catch (arm, athleticism, moxy etc.) then he's most likely not going to be able to catch.

Black QB's? Back in the day, if they were good enough to play QB, they were seen as athletic and were moved to a skill position.

Would Greg Maddux have even made it to rookie ball if he came out of HS/College today? When he started his career, he would touch 90 and ended his career throwing mid-80's.

My TLDR question is, are their stereotypes that exist or is it a crazy notion to think that anything like this would keep a team from taking the better player in whatever sport at whatever position?

There's definitely bias whether it's subconscious or not. And looking at it blindly, there's a reason for in in some respects. For whatever reason (I'm not here to say what that reason is), white CBs have not been a thing since black and white TVs. Those are pretty tall odds and when you're trying to make a business decision that has to play into it even if those GMs aren't consciously thinking about it. So yeah, I do think Iowa hurt his NFL chances big time by not making him a safety. But...Iowa's goal is winning games and not getting guys drafted, so I get it.

 

[HuckFinn]

Coop will be fine.

 

[Fryowa]

Coop will be fine.

No one is saying he won't.

OP asked a question for discussion in his last sentence.

 

[PCHawk]

Coop will be fine.

Oh thank God. The OP gave the impression Coop had cancer or something....

 

[Fryowa]

I wasn't sure if it was an appropriate topic for the football thread so I thought I'd bring my thoughts here.

First off, I don't have a problem with Coop not going last night. If he's not right for the team, no problem. I never thought that he would go in the first round. My question has always been whether or not he goes before TJ Tampa from ISU whose basically the same size as Coop. All the talk has been about moving him to safety. I thought that when Iowa put him at CB. Is this going to hurt his NFL chances?

To a certain extent, you have to appease the fan base. They talked about someone from the Lions front office joking about being run out of town if they traded out of the first round (the draft was held in Detroit). What if a trade was best for the team? Can you imagine a fan base's reaction if their team drafted a white CB in the first round? Did that factor into it? If he was black with his on field resume, character, and underwear testing, would he still be undrafted?

He obviously has incredible return skills and his RAS score that is best for all DB's this year and the 39th out of 2473 since 1987. A scout that's worked in analytics behind the scenes for ESPN and the NFL network for more than a decade said:



Is it the case where certain players are put in or removed from certain positions because of a certain trait, etc? For example, left handed catchers are a rarity. You hardly see any. The main reason this all started? Catchers don't pitch and lefties pitch. If a lefty isn't good enough to catch (arm, athleticism, moxy etc.) then he's most likely not going to be able to catch.

Black QB's? Back in the day, if they were good enough to play QB, they were seen as athletic and were moved to a skill position.

Would Greg Maddux have even made it to rookie ball if he came out of HS/College today? When he started his career, he would touch 90 and ended his career throwing mid-80's.

My TLDR question is, are their stereotypes that exist or is it a crazy notion to think that anything like this would keep a team from taking the better player in whatever sport at whatever position?

There was a kid in the Sioux Falls area same age as mine when we'd play 14U tournaments up there, he was a lefty playing SS and absolutely lights out with the glove and throwing to first. Honestly was as good as most varsity infielders around the area and I'd have taken him on my team in a heartbeat. Definitely skill level to play beyond high school. I remember he and his parents were struggling because he was at the point where he was getting told by people who knew better that his chances of playing college ball or even on showcase teams was essentially zilch unless he could pitch or switch to 1B or outfield. To me personally I thought what's the big deal, but this particular kid loved playing up the middle and didn't want to do anything else. Really was hard on him. He looked like a kid who could pick up the gist of playing OF pretty quick but who knows. I was an outfielder and if I can do it anyone can.

I don't think mom and dad were baseball people and he just grew up in his town's rec league or whatever and never gave it a second thought, and it seemed to me that it hit him like a ton of bricks. Once my kid hit high school we weren't in that scene anymore so I don't know what ever ended up happening.

 

[HuckFinn]

No one is saying he won't.

OP asked a question for discussion in his last sentence.

I think there is a misunderstanding about my post. I was simply commenting in a positive way. No reflection on OP’s post at all.

 

[99topdawg]

There was a kid in the Sioux Falls area same age as mine when we'd play 14U tournaments up there, he was a lefty playing SS and absolutely lights out with the glove and throwing to first. Honestly was as good as most varsity infielders around the area and I'd have taken him on my team in a heartbeat. Definitely skill level to play beyond high school. I remember he and his parents were struggling because he was at the point where he was getting told by people who knew better that his chances of playing college ball or even on showcase teams was essentially zilch unless he could pitch or switch to 1B or outfield. To me personally I thought what's the big deal, but this particular kid loved playing up the middle and didn't want to do anything else. Really was hard on him. He looked like a kid who could pick up the gist of playing OF pretty quick but who knows. I was an outfielder and if I can do it anyone can.

I don't think mom and dad were baseball people and he just grew up in his town's rec league or whatever and never gave it a second thought, and it seemed to me that it hit him like a ton of bricks. Once my kid hit high school we weren't in that scene anymore so I don't know what ever ended up happening.

A few years ago we played a school for the first time and they had a left handed catcher who was ridiculously good. Had a canon, received and blocked the ball well. On a ground ball he would go down the line to back up the throw and would beat the runner to first. Crazy catcher/athlete. Then I was told he was an 8th grader. Last year as a junior he hit .543 and threw out 4 of 5 runners that attempted to steal. Also stole 38 bases. He's headed to Morningside to play next year. They're getting a helluva player. Will be interested to see if they keep him at catcher.

 

[CP87]

I wasn't sure if it was an appropriate topic for the football thread so I thought I'd bring my thoughts here.

First off, I don't have a problem with Coop not going last night. If he's not right for the team, no problem. I never thought that he would go in the first round. My question has always been whether or not he goes before TJ Tampa from ISU whose basically the same size as Coop. All the talk has been about moving him to safety. I thought that when Iowa put him at CB. Is this going to hurt his NFL chances?

To a certain extent, you have to appease the fan base. They talked about someone from the Lions front office joking about being run out of town if they traded out of the first round (the draft was held in Detroit). What if a trade was best for the team? Can you imagine a fan base's reaction if their team drafted a white CB in the first round? Did that factor into it? If he was black with his on field resume, character, and underwear testing, would he still be undrafted?

He obviously has incredible return skills and his RAS score that is best for all DB's this year and the 39th out of 2473 since 1987. A scout that's worked in analytics behind the scenes for ESPN and the NFL network for more than a decade said:



Is it the case where certain players are put in or removed from certain positions because of a certain trait, etc? For example, left handed catchers are a rarity. You hardly see any. The main reason this all started? Catchers don't pitch and lefties pitch. If a lefty isn't good enough to catch (arm, athleticism, moxy etc.) then he's most likely not going to be able to catch.

Black QB's? Back in the day, if they were good enough to play QB, they were seen as athletic and were moved to a skill position.

Would Greg Maddux have even made it to rookie ball if he came out of HS/College today? When he started his career, he would touch 90 and ended his career throwing mid-80's.

My TLDR question is, are their stereotypes that exist or is it a crazy notion to think that anything like this would keep a team from taking the better player in whatever sport at whatever position?

Some others I have heard denigrated due to factors other than their play/skills:

red-headed quarterbacks
quarterbacks with girlfriends who don't look like super models

 

[CP87]

I don't think CDJ is a flawless player, so I cannot fault teams for drafting him in round 1. Moreso than his skin tone, I think he might be underestimated because he can make the game look so easy.

Certain plays he makes do not seem to arise from eye-popping displays of athleticism, but rather they almost seem gift-wrapped for him. Unless you are around his play all the time, you do not appreciate that those plays are actually made due to a combination of his anticipation and fluidity as an athlete.

Look at how he makes it look like he is running the route as he undercuts a receiver. Look at how he easily sidesteps would-be tacklers or they just fall off of him. It is really easy to get the impression that what he does is easy and many different players could make those plays.

2024 NFL Draft Highlights: DB Cooper DeJean | Iowa Football

00:00:00 - Iowa Hawkeyes vs. Iowa State Cyclones, 09/10/202200:00:37 - Iowa Hawkeyes vs. Nevada Wolf Pack, 09/17/202200:01:00 - Rutgers Scarlet Knights vs. I...

www.youtube.com

 

[MelroseHawkins]

All I know is that the Eagles got a hell of a player with their 2nd pick. They are going to look back and think they got a bargain and lucky he was still on the board. It's that kind of pick.

 

[kicker22]

All I know is that the Eagles got a hell of a player with their 2nd pick. They are going to look back and think they got a bargain and lucky he was still on the board. It's that kind of pick.

I'm with you. I think it's more about where he lands then when in the draft he lands there. I'd much rather see him going to the eagles then a train wreck of a program or a program that doesn't quite know what direction they want to go.