I can see a high school kid thinking that way but an adult who thinks the best way to start is to not try is pretty messed up. Just out of curiosity, how did you find out it was his parents telling him to quit trying?
so, olaseni STILL not starting over woodbury . yeah, I went there again
- Thread starter mrolympia
- Start date
I can see a high school kid thinking that way but an adult who thinks the best way to start is to not try is pretty messed up. Just out of curiosity, how did you find out it was his parents telling him to quit trying?
I have one major issue with starting Woodbury: it places an inherent limit on Olaseni's minutes. When both players are playing at their average level, Olaseni is the more productive player in almost every facet of the game (more on that later). As a result, Olaseni ought to have the first opportunity to earn the bulk of the minutes in a given night.
I've said this before, but I think sometimes people underestimate the gulf between these to players; it's not like the difference in productivity between Woodbury and Olaseni is negligible. Olaseni is significantly better. Look at the difference in production, which is notable, because they have almost exactly the same usage rate (21.4 for Woodbury, 21.3 for Olaseni), so you can't just say Olaseni is more of a focal point of the offense with the second unit.
To recap: Olaseni is the higher volume scorer, more efficient scorer, superior offensive rebounder, better overall rebounder, significantly better shotblocker, and less turnover prone player. Olaseni is significantly better based on player efficiency rating, offensive rating, defensive rating, and win shares. Woodbury gets more assists (at the expense of turnovers) and records marginally more steals. Furthermore, several people have mentioned it's better to bring Olaseni off of the bench to protect him from foul trouble, but it's not like he's any more prone to committing fouls than Woodbury.
Start Gabe. Let Woodbury use his size against weaker bench players.
I've said this before, but I think sometimes people underestimate the gulf between these to players; it's not like the difference in productivity between Woodbury and Olaseni is negligible. Olaseni is significantly better. Look at the difference in production, which is notable, because they have almost exactly the same usage rate (21.4 for Woodbury, 21.3 for Olaseni), so you can't just say Olaseni is more of a focal point of the offense with the second unit.
| Player/Season | Points/40 | Fouls/40 | PER | TS% | ORB% | DRB% | TRB% | AST% | STL% | BLK% | TOV% | ORtg | DRtg | WS/40 |
| Woodbury, 2013-14 | 13.5 | 6.0 | 16.5 | 0.560 | 11.5 | 14.1 | 12.8 | 8.6 | 1.8 | 3.7 | 16.8 | 113.8 | 100.0 | 0.142 |
| Olaseni, 2013-14 | 15.4 | 5.6 | 21.7 | 0.568 | 16.8 | 15.8 | 16.2 | 4.5 | 0.9 | 8.6 | 11.3 | 125.5 | 98.9 | 0.191 |
| Woodbury, 2014-15 | 13.3 | 5.1 | 12.8 | 0.490 | 10.6 | 18.9 | 14.7 | 8.6 | 1.2 | 2.5 | 21.3 | 91.8 | 88.5 | 0.113 |
| Olaseni, 2014-15 | 19.6 | 5.6 | 29.3 | 0.656 | 14.2 | 17.1 | 15.7 | 6.8 | 0.9 | 12.3 | 13.4 | 129.7 | 85.3 | 0.280 |
To recap: Olaseni is the higher volume scorer, more efficient scorer, superior offensive rebounder, better overall rebounder, significantly better shotblocker, and less turnover prone player. Olaseni is significantly better based on player efficiency rating, offensive rating, defensive rating, and win shares. Woodbury gets more assists (at the expense of turnovers) and records marginally more steals. Furthermore, several people have mentioned it's better to bring Olaseni off of the bench to protect him from foul trouble, but it's not like he's any more prone to committing fouls than Woodbury.
Start Gabe. Let Woodbury use his size against weaker bench players.
JG10Hawk
Well-Known Member
Solid post Bob. The one thing that could go against your argument would be that a large chunk of Gabe's minutes have come against what you call "weaker bench players." Woody is normally in the game and plays more minutes against team's top 5 man. Look at Syracuse, Texas, and UNC for recent examples. For whatever reason those are probably Adam's 3 best games this year. He seems to struggle against inferior/smaller defense while Olaseni has thrived. Look no further than Nebraska as to how well Olaseni can play against smaller defenders. Why Adam isn't able to dominate inferior defenders irritates the heck out of me at times. It doesnt help that outside of the 1st half of the Nebraska game, this team has struggled to feed the post.
As long as Gabe doesn't care if he starts or not I don't really see what the issue is. Fran tends to play the hot hand more, no matter the position. I'm just glad this team has 2 capable bigs. Sure beats the heck out of the lineup some watched play just half a decade ago.
As long as Gabe doesn't care if he starts or not I don't really see what the issue is. Fran tends to play the hot hand more, no matter the position. I'm just glad this team has 2 capable bigs. Sure beats the heck out of the lineup some watched play just half a decade ago.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
The parents came up to me after the season and told me so. Unbelievable.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Um.....NO. Just because a player starts doesn't mean that player will play more minutes. My brother was all conference in HS. Never started a game. He was the team's leading scorer and rebounder, though. He was gravity challenged. (couldn't jump) There was one kid on the team that started every game and played less than 5 minutes a game - because he typically won the opening tip, something my brother couldn't do.
When I coached HS basketball, I'd play up to 9 players. And the starting lineup didn't really matter... and I told the players as much. I watched how they played during the game and the best players that night got more playing time, barring foul trouble of course. THAT is what matters.
glidinghawk
Well-Known Member
Olaseni should average about 21 to 23 minutes a game.
You're right, the player who starts isn't guaranteed the most minutes. However, it's also true that by not starting, the bench player's minutes are necessarily capped.
Just in terms of managing minutes and getting proper rest, it's far easier to play 30 minutes (just as an example) as a starter than as a bench player. For example, the starter could play the 1st 10 minutes of the half, sit for 5 minutes, and then finish the last 5 minutes of the half. Same goes for the second half. For a bench player, if he comes into each half early (say 5 minutes into the game), then he'd have to play two 15 minute stretches to get to 30 minutes. Obviously, that's not likely to happen. So just in terms of the logistics of playing time distribution, it's harder for Olaseni to play significantly more minutes than Woodbury even when his play warrants it (which is most of the time).
Eda
Well-Known Member
SIAP:
I seen in an interview that GO mentioned his goal for the season is to get 6th man of the year. He said he embraces his role and it's motivating him.
So my question is why are people making a BFD about this, when the guy it really affects isn't even thinking about it? He likes where he's at/his role; and he's really friggin good at it.
Sit back and enjoy the ride boys!
I seen in an interview that GO mentioned his goal for the season is to get 6th man of the year. He said he embraces his role and it's motivating him.
So my question is why are people making a BFD about this, when the guy it really affects isn't even thinking about it? He likes where he's at/his role; and he's really friggin good at it.
Sit back and enjoy the ride boys!
1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
Gotta love parents. When I was coaching high school bb, I once went to a booster club event. It was my turn to speak. Just a chance to tell the boosters a little bit about your team and the players, no big deal. Afterward people can ask any questions they want. It's pretty low key.
Well, this mother stands up and says, "Yeah, I just want to know what you've got against my daughter." You coulda' heard a pin drop in that room.
I just said "Nothing, any other questions?" I got several phone calls and emails of support and apologizing for her behavior, but I knew at that point I was done with coaching after that season. BTW, that mother continued to be a pain in the *** the rest of the year.
Gotta love parents. When I was coaching high school bb, I once went to a booster club event. It was my turn to speak. Just a chance to tell the boosters a little bit about your team and the players, no big deal. Afterward people can ask any questions they want. It's pretty low key.
Well, this mother stands up and says, "Yeah, I just want to know what you've got against my daughter." You coulda' heard a pin drop in that room.
I got several phone calls and emails of support and apologizing for her behavior, but I knew at that point I was done with coaching after that season. BTW, that mother continued to be a pain in the *** the rest of the year.
You should have responded "you mean other than the fact that she sucks at basketball?".
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
Over the last 4 games Gabe is averaging 22 minutes per game and Woodbury is averaging 17 minutes per game. So Gabe is playing more. The way Gabe is playing right now I don't think it's unreasonable to see him getting another 3 to 5 minutes a game moving forward...as long as he's playing so well. But the way Gabe runs the floor, his energy level, etc. I don't see him playing more than approximately 27 minutes a game. Gabe was 12 for 12 from the line the other night before missing...and I think he looked fatigued on the 1 he missed. Just my opinion...
1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
LOL, actually she was pretty good and was my starting point guard. I never did figure why that mother thought I didn't like her daughter. Meh.........I learned a lot about people that season. Many of them suck.
Eda
Well-Known Member
Gee, where have I seen this discussion before? Lol'n
Robowe
Well-Known Member
http://qctimes.com/sports/basketbal...cle_4f52cc49-2c3e-5a3e-9856-38fe6351eb72.html
- Gabriel Olaseni never has started in 103 games at Iowa and head coach Fran McCaffery said he has no plans to change that. Adam Woodbury will remain the starting center despite the fact that Olaseni is third on the team in scoring and second in the Big Ten in blocked shots. He had a career-high 18 points Monday against Nebraska.
1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
end thread. drop the mic