Shouldn't We make the tournament?

BryceC said:
So you would rather have a team that allows less points (2012 ISU) but allows a horrible points per possession? To me focusing on that is just weird when there are better ways to do it.
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The 2 do not have to be mutually exclusive. In fact, you'll find that more often than not, the 2 go hand in hand. At least when it comes to coaches that demand their teams play defense.
 
Ree4 said:
In b4 somebody posts data that contradicts your "guess" and you put them on ignore, since we all know you won't do any research :)
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or he'll put money on something with ya - call you a liar, every name he can think of, tell you how strong willed he is and then put you on ignore for just having a different opinion.
 
lightning1 said:
The 2 do not have to be mutually exclusive. In fact, you'll find that more often than not, the 2 go hand in hand. At least when it comes to coaches that demand their teams play defense.
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Of course they don't have to be mutually exclusive - but they absolutely can be, which is why it's bad to solely focus on it.

Auburn last year was 194th in PPG allowed, giving up 73.2 PPG, 10th in the SEC. They were 37th in adjusted defense and 26th on offense per KenPom. A top 40 team in both categories is a good team. They finished 26-8 (13-5) and shared the SEC conference title. Auburn played the 18th fastest tempo, averaging 72.7 possessions per game.

Is it better to be Auburn, at 73.2 PPG, or Notre Dame, who finished at 68.6 PPG, 6th in the ACC, with a good offense (32nd) and an okay defense (68th). They played the 312th slowest pace, averaging only 65 possessions per game. Is it better to be Notre Dame who missed the tournament altogether with a 21-15 record? Was Notre Dame playing better or worse defense than Auburn? Was Bruce Pearl not demanding his team play defense and Mike Brey was?

I'll wait for your answer. I bet I won't get one.
 
BryceC said:
Of course they don't have to be mutually exclusive - but they absolutely can be, which is why it's bad to solely focus on it.

Auburn last year was 194th in PPG allowed, giving up 73.2 PPG, 10th in the SEC. They were 37th in adjusted defense and 26th on offense per KenPom. A top 40 team in both categories is a good team. They finished 26-8 (13-5) and shared the SEC conference title. Auburn played the 18th fastest tempo, averaging 72.7 possessions per game.

Is it better to be Auburn, at 73.2 PPG, or Notre Dame, who finished at 68.6 PPG, 6th in the ACC, with a good offense (32nd) and an okay defense (68th). They played the 312th slowest pace, averaging only 65 possessions per game. Is it better to be Notre Dame who missed the tournament altogether with a 21-15 record? Was Notre Dame playing better or worse defense than Auburn? Was Bruce Pearl not demanding his team play defense and Mike Brey was?

I'll wait for your answer. I bet I won't get one.
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BryceC said:
Of course they don't have to be mutually exclusive - but they absolutely can be, which is why it's bad to solely focus on it.

Auburn last year was 194th in PPG allowed, giving up 73.2 PPG, 10th in the SEC. They were 37th in adjusted defense and 26th on offense per KenPom. A top 40 team in both categories is a good team. They finished 26-8 (13-5) and shared the SEC conference title. Auburn played the 18th fastest tempo, averaging 72.7 possessions per game.

Is it better to be Auburn, at 73.2 PPG, or Notre Dame, who finished at 68.6 PPG, 6th in the ACC, with a good offense (32nd) and an okay defense (68th). They played the 312th slowest pace, averaging only 65 possessions per game. Is it better to be Notre Dame who missed the tournament altogether with a 21-15 record? Was Notre Dame playing better or worse defense than Auburn? Was Bruce Pearl not demanding his team play defense and Mike Brey was?

I'll wait for your answer. I bet I won't get one.
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I bet you get an answer about how tough he is.
 
Due to different injuries Iowa didn't come close to the expectations for the season and the fan base doesn't expect much from them this year. They are going to be to good, talented, and experienced not to have a good year. Hopefully, they will stay healthy this year. The injury to bohannon with no depth at point guard really threw everything off last year.
 
Tierney said:
Due to different injuries Iowa didn't come close to the expectations for the season and the fan base doesn't expect much from them this year. They are going to be to good, talented, and experienced not to have a good year. Hopefully, they will stay healthy this year. The injury to bohannon with no depth at point guard really threw everything off last year.
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Which jar do you want?

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BryceC said:
Of course they don't have to be mutually exclusive - but they absolutely can be, which is why it's bad to solely focus on it.

Auburn last year was 194th in PPG allowed, giving up 73.2 PPG, 10th in the SEC. They were 37th in adjusted defense and 26th on offense per KenPom. A top 40 team in both categories is a good team. They finished 26-8 (13-5) and shared the SEC conference title. Auburn played the 18th fastest tempo, averaging 72.7 possessions per game.

Is it better to be Auburn, at 73.2 PPG, or Notre Dame, who finished at 68.6 PPG, 6th in the ACC, with a good offense (32nd) and an okay defense (68th). They played the 312th slowest pace, averaging only 65 possessions per game. Is it better to be Notre Dame who missed the tournament altogether with a 21-15 record? Was Notre Dame playing better or worse defense than Auburn? Was Bruce Pearl not demanding his team play defense and Mike Brey was?

I'll wait for your answer. I bet I won't get one.
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I don't solely focus on it. I also don't bother focusing on 2 or 3 examples out of 350....to try and make some idiotic point. That would be YOU. Do me (and yourself a favor) and find me a video of a coach yelling anything related to "defensive efficiency", during a game. I imagine it will take you twice as many days of internet scouring, than it took you to find the Auburn example. I'll wait for your video. I bet I won't get one.
Oh.....Auburn got CRUSHED in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament by Clemson - 84-53!
Where does Clemson rank in PPG allowed?????? 26th
 
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lightning1 said:
I don't solely focus on it. I also don't bother focusing on 2 or 3 examples out of 350....to try and make some idiotic point. That would be YOU. Do me (and yourself a favor) and find me a video of a coach yelling anything related to "defensive efficiency", during a game. I imagine it will take you twice as many days of internet scouring, than it took you to find the Auburn example. I'll wait for your video. I bet I won't get one.
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Um, lightning, this is really stupid. Yelling at your team to PLAY DEFENSE, is saying to stop them from scoring, which is being efficient defensively.

Once again, you just fail to see the simple point. You need to be efficient EVERY POSSESSION defensively. If the opponent get 80 possessions vs 72 possession in a game, of course they are going to get more PPG. That doesn't mean you played any worse defense, it just means they might have a faster pace, or you have a faster pace.
 
Tierney said:
Due to different injuries Iowa didn't come close to the expectations for the season and the fan base doesn't expect much from them this year. They are going to be to good, talented, and experienced not to have a good year. Hopefully, they will stay healthy this year. The injury to bohannon with no depth at point guard really threw everything off last year.
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That's what I "expect". What do I "think" will happen this year? No idea, to be honest. My best guess is NIT but I really think this team SHOULD be able to make the dance if they are effectively coaching defense this year.

They should be able to score some points. IMO it all comes down to the other end of the floor. Will they buy into playing solid team D?
 
deanvogs said:
I’m not sure why some are struggling to understand this. If you play uptempo and have more possessions, both you and your opponent are going to score more PPG. That doesn’t mean your defense isn’t as good, it just means the opponent gets more possession so of course they will score more.
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That's how I see it. It all starts with points per possession. If you're allowing your opponent to score the majority of their possessions, that's still bad defense. The pace of play just dictates how high the score will go. Given a set pace of play, bad defense might mean you allow 80. Good defense, maybe only in the 60's or 70.

For a Fran team, allowing 70 is pretty good. For a Lickliter team, that's probably not so great.
 
lightning1 said:
I don't solely focus on it. I also don't bother focusing on 2 or 3 examples out of 350....to try and make some idiotic point. That would be YOU. Do me (and yourself a favor) and find me a video of a coach yelling anything related to "defensive efficiency", during a game. I imagine it will take you twice as many days of internet scouring, than it took you to find the Auburn example. I'll wait for your video. I bet I won't get one.
Oh.....Auburn got CRUSHED in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament by Clemson - 84-53!
Where does Clemson rank in PPG allowed?????? 26th
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And Clemson was also 22nd in defensive efficiency. :)
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/defensive-efficiency

On the flip side, Lick's last team was 289th out of 347 in defensive efficiency:
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/defensive-efficiency?date=2010-04-06

But 100th in PPG allowed:
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/opponent-points-per-game?date=2010-04-06

Pretty big discrepancy there. I can't look at PPG and say they were a Top 100 defensive team when they were down towards the bottom in defensive efficiency.
 
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1977Hawkeye said:
That's how I see it. It all starts with points per possession. If you're allowing your opponent to score the majority of their possessions, that's still bad defense. The pace of play just dictates how high the score will go. Given a set pace of play, bad defense might mean you allow 80. Good defense, maybe only in the 60's or 70.

For a Fran team, allowing 70 is pretty good. For a Lickliter team, that's probably not so great.
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BINGO! I can't for the life of me understand why some are having such a hard time grasping this concept. You can have the best defense in the world, but if the opponents get 100 possessions, they are gonna score a lot of points still. Limiting possession isn't "playing good defense", it is just slowing the game down. You still need to stop the opponent enough when they do have their possessions, because you are gonna have less possessions as well.
 
lightning1 said:
I don't solely focus on it. I also don't bother focusing on 2 or 3 examples out of 350....to try and make some idiotic point. That would be YOU. Do me (and yourself a favor) and find me a video of a coach yelling anything related to "defensive efficiency", during a game. I imagine it will take you twice as many days of internet scouring, than it took you to find the Auburn example. I'll wait for your video. I bet I won't get one.
Oh.....Auburn got CRUSHED in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament by Clemson - 84-53!
Where does Clemson rank in PPG allowed?????? 26th
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Your second sentence in that post and your last sentence counterdict each other.
 
deanvogs said:
Um, lightning, this is really stupid. Yelling at your team to PLAY DEFENSE, is saying to stop them from scoring, which is being efficient defensively.

Once again, you just fail to see the simple point. You need to be efficient EVERY POSSESSION defensively. If the opponent get 80 possessions vs 72 possession in a game, of course they are going to get more PPG. That doesn't mean you played any worse defense, it just means they might have a faster pace, or you have a faster pace.
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Nobody yells at their team to "play defense:. You're a dumb ass.
I see the simple point. I'm not the poster that said "PPG is a worthless stat". That was the poster I was responding to, in this thread and the entire concept from which I have framed my comments. Once again, you clowns only read what you want to read and argue accordingly.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
And Clemson was also 22nd in defensive efficiency. :)
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/defensive-efficiency

On the flip side, Lick's last team was 289th out of 347 in defensive efficiency:
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/defensive-efficiency?date=2010-04-06

But 100th in PPG allowed:
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/opponent-points-per-game?date=2010-04-06

Pretty big discrepancy there. I can't look at PPG and say they were a Top 100 defensive team when they were down towards the bottom in defensive efficiency.
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I'm not arguing that Lick's last team was a good defensive team. I don't care about the discrepancies between PPG allowed and defensive efficiency. Teams that place the necessary emphasis on defense, get stops more often than not. Teams that don't care about defense in favor of pace, don't get stops when they need them. Regardless of what their defensive efficiency ranking is.
 
deanvogs said:
BINGO! I can't for the life of me understand why some are having such a hard time grasping this concept. You can have the best defense in the world, but if the opponents get 100 possessions, they are gonna score a lot of points still. Limiting possession isn't "playing good defense", it is just slowing the game down. You still need to stop the opponent enough when they do have their possessions, because you are gonna have less possessions as well.
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You have explained the same thing 20 different ways in this thread. That's impressive.:)
 
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