Shouldn't We make the tournament?

[trj]

I'm not arguing that Lick's last team was a good defensive team. I don't care about the discrepancies between PPG allowed and defensive efficiency. Teams that place the necessary emphasis on defense, get stops more often than not. Teams that don't care about defense in favor of pace, don't get stops when they need them. Regardless of what their defensive efficiency ranking is.

Teams with a good defensive efficiency ranking actually means they are getting stops when they want them. Just sayin.

 

[lightning1]

Teams with a good defensive efficiency ranking actually means they are getting stops when they want them. Just sayin.

Top 30 in points per game allowed
1 Virginia 54.0 65.0 74.0 52.2 55.8 56.4
2 Cincinnati 57.5 61.0 75.0 57.0 58.0 61.3
3 Central FL 61.7 62.3 84.0 58.8 64.6 61.2
4 Loyola-Chi 62.4 66.3 69.0 62.2 62.5 67.6
5 Old Dominion 62.8 56.0 57.0 57.2 67.2 61.2
6 Michigan 63.3 63.3 79.0 58.5 66.5 66.4
7 N Iowa 63.3 53.3 54.0 60.4 65.9 65.3
8 NC-Grnsboro 63.5 56.7 68.0 57.7 67.9 70.4
9 Syracuse 63.8 58.0 69.0 60.3 67.5 71.1
10 S Methodist 64.1 66.3 61.0 60.8 68.0 60.0
11 St Marys 64.5 64.3 67.0 61.2 68.5 57.5
12 Evansville 64.6 54.0 60.0 60.1 69.7 69.9
13 Grd Canyon 64.6 70.0 78.0 60.2 69.9 68.2
14 Texas Tech 64.8 67.3 71.0 61.7 67.7 67.1
15 Michigan St 64.9 69.3 55.0 63.6 66.1 68.7
16 Houston 64.9 61.7 64.0 60.9 67.8 64.9
17 N Mex State 65.2 72.0 79.0 61.9 67.3 68.8
18 Bradley 65.3 63.0 62.0 58.9 70.2 71.2
19 Liberty 65.3 63.3 67.0 63.3 67.4 65.2
20 Vermont 65.4 69.0 91.0 60.5 68.4 63.4
21 Radford 65.4 66.7 87.0 64.4 66.0 70.7
22 Rutgers 65.6 68.3 82.0 61.6 72.7 67.4
23 Purdue 65.7 66.3 78.0 61.5 69.2 68.4
24 Tennessee 65.7 62.3 63.0 64.4 66.8 72.7
25 Saint Louis 65.8 68.3 78.0 62.6 69.5 69.3
26 Clemson 65.9 67.0 80.0 61.9 69.3 71.5
27 Wisconsin 66.0 61.7 63.0 65.6 66.5 62.4
28 St Peters 66.0 59.3 65.0 65.5 66.4 60.8
29 Wright State 66.4 61.0 73.0 59.6 71.3 74.3
30 Jksnville St
Top 30 teams in defensive efficiency ranking
1 Cincinnati 0.847 0.983 1.157 0.808 0.880 0.911
2 Virginia 0.870 1.044 1.180 0.839 0.901 0.899
3 Grd Canyon 0.893 1.001 1.171 0.857 0.934 0.936
4 Old Dominion 0.914 0.854 0.892 0.822 0.987 0.926
5 N Mex State 0.915 1.014 1.118 0.878 0.939 0.968
6 NC-Grnsboro 0.920 0.853 0.934 0.839 0.982 1.018
7 Texas Tech 0.920 0.977 1.028 0.854 0.986 0.988
8 Ste F Austin 0.925 0.921 1.017 0.849 0.980 0.978
9 Central FL 0.926 0.944 1.221 0.894 0.958 0.900
10 Houston 0.927 0.910 0.948 0.862 0.977 0.959
11 Michigan St 0.928 1.044 0.871 0.893 0.962 0.987
12 Wright State 0.929 0.916 1.075 0.862 0.976 1.016
13 Loyola-Chi 0.935 0.971 0.999 0.916 0.947 0.983
14 Gonzaga 0.936 1.000 1.015 0.905 0.960 0.849
15 E Tenn St 0.937 0.866 0.947 0.943 0.932 0.944
16 Michigan 0.938 0.947 1.170 0.862 0.990 1.013
17 N Kentucky 0.939 0.964 0.922 0.861 0.991 1.005
18 Purdue 0.941 0.978 1.135 0.862 1.012 0.949
19 Montana 0.948 1.037 0.927 0.891 0.983 1.039
20 Tennessee 0.949 0.986 1.082 0.926 0.966 0.989
21 Boise State 0.949 1.040 0.961 0.922 0.974 1.001
22 Clemson 0.950 0.933 1.107 0.890 1.002 1.028
23 Rutgers 0.953 1.021 1.274 0.894 1.055 0.971
24 Evansville 0.953 0.841 1.001 0.880 1.037 1.003
25 Penn State 0.954 1.028 0.996 0.871 1.037 0.974
26 Syracuse 0.954 0.923 1.092 0.914 0.995 1.014
27 San Diego St 0.954 0.966 0.918 0.885 1.007 0.914
28 U Penn 0.956 0.959 1.088 0.892 0.999 0.978
29 Duke
30 Jksnville St 0.960 1.016 1.232 0.950 0.967 1.027
Care to count how many teams appear on both lists?
Let me help you: 20. Or 2/3. 2/3 of the teams in the top 30 in defensive efficiency also appear on the list in fewest points per game allowed. 5 of the last 10 are still in the 31-60 ranking in points per game allowed.
I guess maybe points per game allowed isn't a worthless stat after all.

 

[deanvogs]

Top 30 in points per game allowed
1 Virginia 54.0 65.0 74.0 52.2 55.8 56.4
2 Cincinnati 57.5 61.0 75.0 57.0 58.0 61.3
3 Central FL 61.7 62.3 84.0 58.8 64.6 61.2
4 Loyola-Chi 62.4 66.3 69.0 62.2 62.5 67.6
5 Old Dominion 62.8 56.0 57.0 57.2 67.2 61.2
6 Michigan 63.3 63.3 79.0 58.5 66.5 66.4
7 N Iowa 63.3 53.3 54.0 60.4 65.9 65.3
8 NC-Grnsboro 63.5 56.7 68.0 57.7 67.9 70.4
9 Syracuse 63.8 58.0 69.0 60.3 67.5 71.1
10 S Methodist 64.1 66.3 61.0 60.8 68.0 60.0
11 St Marys 64.5 64.3 67.0 61.2 68.5 57.5
12 Evansville 64.6 54.0 60.0 60.1 69.7 69.9
13 Grd Canyon 64.6 70.0 78.0 60.2 69.9 68.2
14 Texas Tech 64.8 67.3 71.0 61.7 67.7 67.1
15 Michigan St 64.9 69.3 55.0 63.6 66.1 68.7
16 Houston 64.9 61.7 64.0 60.9 67.8 64.9
17 N Mex State 65.2 72.0 79.0 61.9 67.3 68.8
18 Bradley 65.3 63.0 62.0 58.9 70.2 71.2
19 Liberty 65.3 63.3 67.0 63.3 67.4 65.2
20 Vermont 65.4 69.0 91.0 60.5 68.4 63.4
21 Radford 65.4 66.7 87.0 64.4 66.0 70.7
22 Rutgers 65.6 68.3 82.0 61.6 72.7 67.4
23 Purdue 65.7 66.3 78.0 61.5 69.2 68.4
24 Tennessee 65.7 62.3 63.0 64.4 66.8 72.7
25 Saint Louis 65.8 68.3 78.0 62.6 69.5 69.3
26 Clemson 65.9 67.0 80.0 61.9 69.3 71.5
27 Wisconsin 66.0 61.7 63.0 65.6 66.5 62.4
28 St Peters 66.0 59.3 65.0 65.5 66.4 60.8
29 Wright State 66.4 61.0 73.0 59.6 71.3 74.3
30 Jksnville St
Top 30 teams in defensive efficiency ranking
1 Cincinnati 0.847 0.983 1.157 0.808 0.880 0.911
2 Virginia 0.870 1.044 1.180 0.839 0.901 0.899
3 Grd Canyon 0.893 1.001 1.171 0.857 0.934 0.936
4 Old Dominion 0.914 0.854 0.892 0.822 0.987 0.926
5 N Mex State 0.915 1.014 1.118 0.878 0.939 0.968
6 NC-Grnsboro 0.920 0.853 0.934 0.839 0.982 1.018
7 Texas Tech 0.920 0.977 1.028 0.854 0.986 0.988
8 Ste F Austin 0.925 0.921 1.017 0.849 0.980 0.978
9 Central FL 0.926 0.944 1.221 0.894 0.958 0.900
10 Houston 0.927 0.910 0.948 0.862 0.977 0.959
11 Michigan St 0.928 1.044 0.871 0.893 0.962 0.987
12 Wright State 0.929 0.916 1.075 0.862 0.976 1.016
13 Loyola-Chi 0.935 0.971 0.999 0.916 0.947 0.983
14 Gonzaga 0.936 1.000 1.015 0.905 0.960 0.849
15 E Tenn St 0.937 0.866 0.947 0.943 0.932 0.944
16 Michigan 0.938 0.947 1.170 0.862 0.990 1.013
17 N Kentucky 0.939 0.964 0.922 0.861 0.991 1.005
18 Purdue 0.941 0.978 1.135 0.862 1.012 0.949
19 Montana 0.948 1.037 0.927 0.891 0.983 1.039
20 Tennessee 0.949 0.986 1.082 0.926 0.966 0.989
21 Boise State 0.949 1.040 0.961 0.922 0.974 1.001
22 Clemson 0.950 0.933 1.107 0.890 1.002 1.028
23 Rutgers 0.953 1.021 1.274 0.894 1.055 0.971
24 Evansville 0.953 0.841 1.001 0.880 1.037 1.003
25 Penn State 0.954 1.028 0.996 0.871 1.037 0.974
26 Syracuse 0.954 0.923 1.092 0.914 0.995 1.014
27 San Diego St 0.954 0.966 0.918 0.885 1.007 0.914
28 U Penn 0.956 0.959 1.088 0.892 0.999 0.978
29 Duke
30 Jksnville St 0.960 1.016 1.232 0.950 0.967 1.027
Care to count how many teams appear on both lists?
Let me help you: 20. Or 2/3. 2/3 of the teams in the top 30 in defensive efficiency also appear on the list in fewest points per game allowed. 5 of the last 10 are still in the 31-60 ranking in points per game allowed.
I guess maybe points per game allowed isn't a worthless stat after all.

I am not sure where you got this defensive efficiency ranking from. KenPom's Adjust D is what I have been talking about. Maybe I said it wrong and mentioned Defensive efficiency, but what I am really talking about is KenPom's adjusted D. KenPom takes pace of play out of the equation. So instead of having teams like Grd. Canyon, Old Dominion, N. Mex St., NC Greensboro, and Stephen F Austin and in the top 10.....KenPom has the following in the top 11 Adjusted D

Virginia
Cincinnati
Michigan
Texas Tech
Syracuse
Tennessee
Clemson
UCF
Duke
Michigan St.
Villanova

See what happens when you take pace of play into account? Let me give you a hint, the top D's aren't actually all teams that slow the game down. Villanova isn't anywhere on your top 30 in PPG or Defensive efficiency, because they played up pace tempo forcing lots of possessions. Guess what though, they played freaking great defense.

In other words if Grd. Canyon, Old Dominion, N. Mex St., NC Greensboro and Stephen F. Austin had to defend as many possessions as the KenPom's Adjusted D top 10, they wouldn't be limiting PPG very well at all. For instance NC Greensboro is ranked #26 in KenPom's adjusted D, Old Dominion #34, Grand Canyon #50 Stephen F. Austin #64

I'd rather have a defensive team that limits points per possession, rather than one that looks good with a good PPG stat that just plays at a slow pace of play. Basically when Grand Canyon has to defend 100 possessions, they will give up 99 points. When Villanova has to defend 100 possessions, they will give up 94 points. So who has the better Defense, Nova or Grand Canyon? According to you @lightning1 it is Grand Canyon.....LOL....

 

[Ree4]

BINGO! I can't for the life of me understand why some are having such a hard time grasping this concept. You can have the best defense in the world, but if the opponents get 100 possessions, they are gonna score a lot of points still. Limiting possession isn't "playing good defense", it is just slowing the game down. You still need to stop the opponent enough when they do have their possessions, because you are gonna have less possessions as well.

Pretty sure it's only one person that is struggling to understand this

 

[lightning1]

I am not sure where you got this defensive efficiency ranking from. KenPom's Adjust D is what I have been talking about. Maybe I said it wrong and mentioned Defensive efficiency, but what I am really talking about is KenPom's adjusted D. KenPom takes pace of play out of the equation. So instead of having teams like Grd. Canyon, Old Dominion, N. Mex St., NC Greensboro, and Stephen F Austin and in the top 10.....KenPom has the following in the top 11 Adjusted D

Virginia
Cincinnati
Michigan
Texas Tech
Syracuse
Tennessee
Clemson
UCF
Duke
Michigan St.
Villanova

See what happens when you take pace of play into account? Let me give you a hint, the top D's aren't actually all teams that slow the game down. Villanova isn't anywhere on your top 30 in PPG or Defensive efficiency, because they played up pace tempo forcing lots of possessions. Guess what though, they played freaking great defense.

In other words if Grd. Canyon, Old Dominion, N. Mex St., NC Greensboro and Stephen F. Austin had to defend as many possessions as the KenPom's Adjusted D top 10, they wouldn't be limiting PPG very well at all. For instance NC Greensboro is ranked #26 in KenPom's adjusted D, Old Dominion #34, Grand Canyon #50 Stephen F. Austin #64

I'd rather have a defensive team that limits points per possession, rather than one that looks good with a good PPG stat that just plays at a slow pace of play. Basically when Grand Canyon has to defend 100 possessions, they will give up 99 points. When Villanova has to defend 100 possessions, they will give up 94 points. So who has the better Defense, Nova or Grand Canyon? According to you @lightning1 it is Grand Canyon.....LOL....

Hey dumbass, why don't you take your Kenpom top 11 and compare them to the list of the top 30 in PPG allowed, that I provided. 8 of the 11 teams from Kenpom's list are in the top 30 in points per game allowed from my list! Idiot.

 

[deanvogs]

Hey dumbass, why don't you take your Kenpom top 11 and compare them to the list of the top 30 in PPG allowed, that I provided. 8 of the 11 teams from Kenpom's list are in the top 30 in points per game allowed from my list! Idiot.

Um, you might want to actually think about this for a moment. Of course the list I provided are actually good defenses. The problem is the list you seem to worship at (PPG allowed) has several jokes in the "top 10" defense. LOL if you think Grd. Canyon, Old Dominion, N. Mex St., NC Greensboro, and Stephen F Austin are top 10 defenses.

 

[lightning1]

Um, you might want to actually think about this for a moment. Of course the list I provided are actually good defenses. The problem is the list you seem to worship at (PPG allowed) has several jokes in the "top 10" defense. LOL if you think Grd. Canyon, Old Dominion, N. Mex St., NC Greensboro, and Stephen F Austin are top 10 defenses.

My point was never that EVERY team that limits PPG was a good defensive team. Just more often than not. Sorry you can't grasp what I'm clearly communicating.
THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF MY COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD IS THAT "PPG ALLOWED" IS NOT A WORTHLESS STAT.

 

[Ree4]

My point was never that EVERY team that limits PPG was a good defensive team. Just more often than not. Sorry you can't grasp what I'm clearly communicating.
THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF MY COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD IS THAT "PPG ALLOWED" IS NOT A WORTHLESS STAT.

Just a worthless stat less than half the time, a worthy point to make!