Should Peyton Mansell Get At Least A Series A Game?

[83Hawk]

I am old enough to remember and I don't remember Fry doing that.

Neither do I. There were a couple of instances where he was trying to determine who his starter was, but other than that, I don’t recall him giving the backup reps except in blowouts.

 

[99topdawg]

Hayden also did it in 2001 when he started Kyle McCann and Brad Banks played a few series each game.













Yes, I'm kidding.

 

[haydensly]

Hayden did it at least
once. And it was actually three QB's. The kickoff classic in the Meadowlands, which Iowa played in 1987 and 1992. In '87 against Tennessee, he rotated Dan McGuire, Chuck Hartlieb, and Tom Poholsky equally. There were more shenanigans for the first month of 1987, but I seem to remember McGwire getting dinged up in the conference opener against Michigan State and Hartlieb finally won the job. McGwire transferred to San Diego State that season. Offensive coordinator Bill Snyder would take the Kansas State job after the following season.

The caveat is that I don't think Hayden thought of any of the three as second stringers. It was 1a, 1b, and 1c coming out of preseason practice.

I remember Hayden's first year he had Phil Suess and Pete Gales and they did split time. And in our first Rose Bowl year, 1981, Gordy Bohannon and Gales both saw action IIRC. I want to say that Gales might have been injured that year so Bohannon took over the job? Not sure about that one.

So there were some instances where two QB's saw action but I don't recall it being a 1-2 series per game type of thing.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Hayden did it at least
once. And it was actually three QB's. The kickoff classic in the Meadowlands, which Iowa played in 1987 and 1992. In '87 against Tennessee, he rotated Dan McGuire, Chuck Hartlieb, and Tom Poholsky equally. There were more shenanigans for the first month of 1987, but I seem to remember McGwire getting dinged up in the conference opener against Michigan State and Hartlieb finally won the job. McGwire transferred to San Diego State that season. Offensive coordinator Bill Snyder would take the Kansas State job after the following season.

The caveat is that I don't think Hayden thought of any of the three as second stringers. It was 1a, 1b, and 1c coming out of preseason practice.

Yeah, that was what I thought in '87. Forgot about Poholsky. Back in '87 the style was to wear an onion on your belt loop and carry a lemon with ya to prevent scurvy. Punky Brewster and ALF dominated late night TV. Guys my age were going through a crisis as hit shows like Airwolf, the A-Team and Knight Rider had all recently been cancelled. But I remember a direct quote from one of my dad's buddies who was (and still is) the consummate Hawkeye optimist. "Dan McGwire is gonna throw touchdowns just like his brother hits homers." Oh man, I wish I had a camcorder back then to record this guy talking about Willie Guy.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I remember Hayden's first year he had Phil Suess and Pete Gales and they did split time. And in our first Rose Bowl year, 1981, Gordy Bohannon and Gales both saw action IIRC. I want to say that Gales might have been injured that year so Bohannon took over the job? Not sure about that one.

So there were some instances where two QB's saw action but I don't recall it being a 1-2 series per game type of thing.

I forgot about that year. They ended up playing about 50-50 but Gales was usually the man when healthy. Our three pronged running attack (Gill, Phillips and Blatcher) were our bread and butter that year anyway along with the defense and kicking game.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Yeah, that was what I thought in '87. Forgot about Poholsky. Back in '87 the style was to wear an onion on your belt loop and carry a lemon with ya to prevent scurvy. Punky Brewster and ALF dominated late night TV. Guys my age were going through a crisis as hit shows like Airwolf, the A-Team and Knight Rider had all recently been cancelled. But I remember a direct quote from one of my dad's buddies who was (and still is) the consummate Hawkeye optimist. "Dan McGwire is gonna throw touchdowns just like his brother hits homers." Oh man, I wish I had a camcorder back then to record this guy talking about Willie Guy.

You should have asked MacGyver. He would have set you all up.

Don't forget the airwaves. They were dominated by Debbie Gibson, Tiffany, Pet Shop Boys and John Mellancamp.

I mentioned Willie Guy a couple of weeks ago. Talk about sound and fury, signifying nothing. Fortunately, the real Willie Guy (Dwight) showed up about three years later, terrorizing secondaries and punt coverage teams.

Remember the TV show called Max Headroom?

 

[okeefe4prez]

I mentioned Willie Guy a couple of weeks ago.

Some guys are so hyped up when they get to Iowa that anything short of worldwide superstardom would be a disappointment. A lot of them manage to substantially underperform. Blake Larsen, Bonecrusher Williams, Willie Guy, Jake Christensen, Dan McGwire (though he did make the NFL for a minute).

 

[Northside Hawk]

Some guys are so hyped up when they get to Iowa that anything short of worldwide superstardom would be a disappointment. A lot of them manage to substantially underperform. Blake Larsen, Bonecrusher Williams, Willie Guy, Jake Christensen, Dan McGwire (though he did make the NFL for a minute).

David Hudson and Keaton Smiley also come to mind. Dan Wirth, although his knees were destroyed before he got here. Tyrone Taylor and Shawon Resperess. Malcolm Christie. Jim Poynton, another guy who averaged about one surgery per year.

 

[Thawki]

Does anybody else remember Hayden Fry giving the 2nd string QB at least one series a game, usually sometime in the 3rd Q depending on the game situation. Am I just dreaming this? I don't think it is a bad idea and wonder if would be beneficial to do this for a few reasons.

1) Obviously give the back-up some experience and a chance to play each game. Get some experience in real game situations building confidence. Maybe keeping the backup appeased so would not transfer this day in age.
2) Maybe push the starting QB a bit if knew someone behind him getting a little playing time.
3) Build back-ups confidence for when does take over or have to lead the team in case of an injury. Not so much of a shell shock.

It wouldn't be a "dual QB" situation but just a series (or two if plays well) a game. I think Hayden always did it consistently in the 3rd Q so everyone knew when it was and the back-up QB was mentally ready. Of course, game situation plays into it and a coach wouldn't put in a bad situation such as backed up on the 1 yrd line or depending on how close the score is. If the Hawks were winning something like 24-7, would it be bad to give the back-up QB a series? Might be more beneficial in the end, and again, let that player know you are invested in him and getting him some playing time. Of course you think about turnovers but these are Div 1 college QB's, so they should be able to handle it and the team shouldn't miss much for a series. Also, maybe this back-up proves to have the hot hand that game and can lead the team to the end. Who knows.

I think if your team is up a few scores or by a comfortable margin or down a couple scores, it's worth doing. Again, benefit in the long run.

The pretty good to really good QBs under Hayden never gave up a drive to a backup. Long, Hartlieb, Rodgers and Sherman? I don’t think any of them ever sat when healthy until it was mopup time. Now, some others that were mediocre to average, maybe that is what you remember.

To your point, though, look at an offensive genius like Gary Pinkel. I have lived in KC since graduating from Iowa in 1987 and I grew up in northwest Iowa. Pinkel gave a drive every game every year to the guy that was going to be his next QB when the current guy would be gone. Sometimes it was a drive a half each game.

He did that with starting QBs that played in the NFL named Smith, Gabbert and Chase Daniel, and he did it with other starters that we’re good but not of the caliber of the aforementioned. He had great QBs that sat a series a game or even each half of a game in order to give that next QB a drive or two. It is not correct to say if you play two then you don’t have one in those instances. Pinkel’s strategy Proved that.

What you are propos8ng can be done just like Pinkel did. But not every coach can pull it off the way Pinkel did. With some teams it would cause controversy. Not at MU.

 

[HawksMN]

As 'shocked' as Vandenberg was when he had to take over for Rick against NW in 09?

 

[mrolympia]

perhaps a wildhawk package for him but other than that, no

 

[trj]

Based on KF's mo the kid would have to have an "it" factor and it would have to be undeniable. Unless they are seeing something special in practice it will continue to be the Nate Stanley show.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

The pretty good to really good QBs under Hayden never gave up a drive to a backup. Long, Hartlieb, Rodgers and Sherman? I don’t think any of them ever sat when healthy until it was mopup time. Now, some others that were mediocre to average, maybe that is what you remember.

To your point, though, look at an offensive genius like Gary Pinkel. I have lived in KC since graduating from Iowa in 1987 and I grew up in northwest Iowa. Pinkel gave a drive every game every year to the guy that was going to be his next QB when the current guy would be gone. Sometimes it was a drive a half each game.

He did that with starting QBs that played in the NFL named Smith, Gabbert and Chase Daniel, and he did it with other starters that we’re good but not of the caliber of the aforementioned. He had great QBs that sat a series a game or even each half of a game in order to give that next QB a drive or two. It is not correct to say if you play two then you don’t have one in those instances. Pinkel’s strategy Proved that.

What you are propos8ng can be done just like Pinkel did. But not every coach can pull it off the way Pinkel did. With some teams it would cause controversy. Not at MU.

This is exactly what I Was referring to and the reasoning. Thanks!

 

[pythagoras]

Puh-lease. Did you not see what Nick did to Georgia in the NCG? 'Member that, when Tua came in?

Getting sat down due to poor performance and playing 2 QBs in some manner are not even close to the same thing. Don't be so dolt.

You are young.

60's, 70's, 80's and 90's football for the most part do not translate to the modern game. Hence the reason I said "Modern Era".

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Does anybody else remember Hayden Fry giving the 2nd string QB at least one series a game, usually sometime in the 3rd Q depending on the game situation. Am I just dreaming this? I don't think it is a bad idea and wonder if would be beneficial to do this for a few reasons.

1) Obviously give the back-up some experience and a chance to play each game. Get some experience in real game situations building confidence. Maybe keeping the backup appeased so would not transfer this day in age.
2) Maybe push the starting QB a bit if knew someone behind him getting a little playing time.
3) Build back-ups confidence for when does take over or have to lead the team in case of an injury. Not so much of a shell shock.

It wouldn't be a "dual QB" situation but just a series (or two if plays well) a game. I think Hayden always did it consistently in the 3rd Q so everyone knew when it was and the back-up QB was mentally ready. Of course, game situation plays into it and a coach wouldn't put in a bad situation such as backed up on the 1 yrd line or depending on how close the score is. If the Hawks were winning something like 24-7, would it be bad to give the back-up QB a series? Might be more beneficial in the end, and again, let that player know you are invested in him and getting him some playing time. Of course you think about turnovers but these are Div 1 college QB's, so they should be able to handle it and the team shouldn't miss much for a series. Also, maybe this back-up proves to have the hot hand that game and can lead the team to the end. Who knows.

I think if your team is up a few scores or by a comfortable margin or down a couple scores, it's worth doing. Again, benefit in the long run.

Yes, you are dreaming it. In blow-outs, yes, backup QBs, as well as other positions, saw reps. It wasn't done systematically, though. Anyone who tells you it was didn't see any Hawk games coached by Hayden Fry.

But, I think teams will need to start doing it. Players, especially QBs, are starting to leave/transfer on a whim. If they see no light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to playing time, we will start to see QBs "shutting it down" after game four. Some teams have enough depth to go with their 3rd-string QB in a pinch. Most teams do not, though.

Look at Clemson. They just announced the freshman phenom is starting. Swinney even admitted the started, Bryant, had "done nothing wrong". So what is Bryant doing? He missed practice yesterday, and it appears he is shutting it down for this season and redshirting/transferring. IF something happens to the starter, you'll have a hard time convincing a guy to come back in game six, or game eight, or especially game ten or later. I'm not so sure we won't see the same thing from Jalen Hurts at Alabama. If we don't see him in Game 5, my guess is Saban will have to come clean with the media. Now with legalized gambling, Pulling An Urban won't cut it, either with media OR with gambling "folks" (ahem).

Hell, look at Nebraska. When Martinez went down, they not only had no experienced backup, but the one that had gotten beaten out for starter was already at another school. So much for depth.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Hayden also did it in 2001 when he started Kyle McCann and Brad Banks played a few series each game.













Yes, I'm kidding.

<<Yes, I'm kidding>>

About which part?

 

[99topdawg]

<<Yes, I'm kidding>>

About which part?

I'm usually kidding about everything. Sarcasm is my only talent, but sometimes I need to clarify.

 

[uihawk82]

Yes, you are dreaming it. In blow-outs, yes, backup QBs, as well as other positions, saw reps. It wasn't done systematically, though. Anyone who tells you it was didn't see any Hawk games coached by Hayden Fry.

But, I think teams will need to start doing it. Players, especially QBs, are starting to leave/transfer on a whim. If they see no light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to playing time, we will start to see QBs "shutting it down" after game four. Some teams have enough depth to go with their 3rd-string QB in a pinch. Most teams do not, though.

Hey Hawk Bob62, I know you have been watching the hawks as long as I have. hayden had a QB around 1996-8 who was the starter, got hurt, lost the job to Sherman, and then a couple of years later the sportswriter's accounts, and witnessed by fans in Kinnick, were this QB refused to go into a game late. This is really an extreme example of shutting it down.

It might have been Randy Reiners but I make have the name wrong.

Do you have memories of this?

 

[MelroseHawkins]

There are pros and cons for both sides of this. I can see the benefit of doing to help retain a QB and get them real experience for when they are ready.

One other con, though, is that it could potentially create a QB controversy if the other does well which many coaches want to try to avoid. Ferentz, for example, would want nothing to do with this idea. I realize that.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Hey Hawk Bob62, I know you have been watching the hawks as long as I have. hayden had a QB around 1996-8 who was the starter, got hurt, lost the job to Sherman, and then a couple of years later the sportswriter's accounts, and witnessed by fans in Kinnick, were this QB refused to go into a game late. This is really an extreme example of shutting it down.

It might have been Randy Reiners but I make have the name wrong.

Do you have memories of this?

Not sure it was Reiners, and I don't know of anyone refusing to go in. Reiners got PT early in his career because of injuries to other QBs. Then, Sherman came on and won the job. When Sherman got hurt in 1997, Reiners took over but I don't think Sherman actually came back til last reg season game, or maybe even bowl game.

Reiners was the starter going into 1998. He had tragically lost his starter to a pulmonary embolism, and then himself got injured during the season and that happened to be his last season. I doubt, if he had refused to go in, he would have been the starter going into 1998. But, then again, who knows?