Shocking Story on Everson/Satterfield Trial

[okeefe4prez]

I'm not condoning anything here, and I think it is absolutely horrible what they allegedly did. Now, if the girl was passed out I can't see how her testimony is at all viable, and all of the other "witnesses" are heresay except for Satterfield who made a plea bargain to NO JAIL TIME. He raped her too, when she was awake! This is ridiculous to me.

If Pugh testifies that Everson told him he had relations with the woman, that is not hearsay under the rules of evidence. That is why if you commit a crime, you should NEVER tell anyone or talk to the cops, any statement you make to anyone can be raised in court and your defense attorney will not be able to have it excluded as hearsay. But the crazy thing is, only statements against interest are admissible, so if Everson told Pugh he didn't have relations with the woman, it would be hearsay and would probably not be admissible unless some other exception applied. Additionally, if Everson gave the cops exculpatory testimony, that testimony would NOT be admissible - think about the Miranda warning - "anything you say can and will be used AGAINST you in a court of law." The cops ain't there to help the suspect.

These cases are really, really tough to sort out, but if you've got Pugh saying she was passed out and that the two other guys were bragging about relations with her, that doesn't sound good for the defense at all.

 

[USBHawk]

What sort of evidence could there be?

From someone who was there other than the alleged victim maybe? You can't assume she was "passed out" when Everson was there. She doesn't remember many details from the evening when she was definitely not "passed out". There is testimony supporting that.

This is why I said the damning evidence will come from Saterfield, and he is just trying to save his own ***.

 

[USBHawk]

If Pugh testifies that Everson told him he had relations with the woman, that is not hearsay under the rules of evidence. That is why if you commit a crime, you should NEVER tell anyone or talk to the cops, any statement you make to anyone can be raised in court and your defense attorney will not be able to have it excluded as hearsay. But the crazy thing is, only statements against interest are admissible, so if Everson told Pugh he didn't have relations with the woman, it would be hearsay and would probably not be admissible unless some other exception applied. Additionally, if Everson gave the cops exculpatory testimony, that testimony would NOT be admissible - think about the Miranda warning - "anything you say can and will be used AGAINST you in a court of law." The cops ain't there to help the suspect.

These cases are really, really tough to sort out, but if you've got Pugh saying she was passed out and that the two other guys were bragging about relations with her, that doesn't sound good for the defense at all.

Pugh left, and she was awake. He did not testify that she was passed out. Everson did not tell Pugh that she was passed out when he had relations with her, did he?

 

[PJHawk]

...Giving Satterfeld a BJ thinking that would at least allow her to keep her virginity?

And that wasn't stupid? Can we assume you would advise virgin HS graduates when faced with sexual assault as a drunken college freshman to offer a BJ as an acceptable alternative to get out of the assault? And if said virgin HS graduates were also on prescription drugs to go ahead and drink to excess in spite of the the potential adverse reactions from said drugs and alcohol?

 

[BSpringsteen]

And that wasn't stupid? Can we assume you would advise virgin HS graduates when faced with sexual assault as a drunken college freshman to offer a BJ as an acceptable alternative to get out of the assault? And if said virgin HS graduates were also on prescription drugs to go ahead and drink to excess in spite of the the potential adverse reactions from said drugs and alcohol?

No. What I think is stupid is passing judgement on someone who clearly knew that she had gotten herself into something bad and was looking for anyway posible to get out of it intact.

These guys are/were monsters who either thought she would be too drunk to remember or didn't care.

 

[BSpringsteen]

I want to clarify my thoughts here a bit.

Rape is about the worst crime one can commit. Ergo, it is also one of the worst things someone can be accused of.

I have zero patience for a woman who gets drunk and gets it on, regrets it in the morning and then accuses her partner of something unconscionable.

But, given the testimony of Pugh, Satterfeld and the girl, I do not believe that the above scenario is what happened here. Which is why any notion of the girl being stupid is insulting to me as a human.

 

[USBHawk]

I want to clarify my thoughts here a bit.

Rape is about the worst crime one can commit. Ergo, it is also one of the worst things someone can be accused of.

I have zero patience for a woman who gets drunk and gets it on, regrets it in the morning and then accuses her partner of something unconscionable.

But, given the testimony of Pugh, Satterfeld and the girl, I do not believe that the above scenario is what happened here. Which is why any notion of the girl being stupid is insulting to me as a human.

Did I miss something? When did Satterfield testify?

Why would that notion be insulting to you? She was stupid to put herself in that position...doesn't mean she wasn't raped.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

What's that, getting drunk with her co-athletes that she knew and lived with?
Giving Satterfeld a BJ thinking that would at least allow her to keep her virginity?

or maybe, her stupid move was passing out since Everson took it upon himself to rape her while she was unconscious.

Stupid is going home with someone who you don't know, yet we've all done that numerous times.

Actually, a high percentage of sexual assaults are performed by someone the victim IS familiar with. And "we've all done that numerous times"...is one hell of a blanket assumption. We don't all live by "MTV Spring Break" rules.

Nothing absolves Satterfield/Everson of their brutal assault. The testimony made my stomach turn.

But getting so drunk you can't function and then performing oral sex on someone you don't want to have sex with is pretty close to stupid in my book.
If the word "stupid" is too harsh...fair enough. Select your own euphemism. But she put herself in a bad position. Unfortunately two absolute punks took advantage of that and her life will never be the same. They deserve everything they've got coming.

 

[Xerxes]

Mike Daniels just testified.

Wow, testified that he went up to vacant room with Everson and stood outside the door while Everson was inside with woman and Satterfield. Then Everson came out, gave him the thumbs up, and Daniels left. Everson did too.

There is a lot of places to go with this but it would all be speculation.

 

[imported_ankle23]

Roommate, Ferentz Testify At Former Player's Trial - Des Moines News Story - KCCI Des Moines

Ferentz just testified as well. Remember - what is now happening is what Deace said would cause Ferentz to be fired. I think in his preseason '08 college ramblings piece is where he wrote that - - B10 coach most likely to be fired.

 

[BSpringsteen]

My issue with the word stupid is that it implies that she is somehow at fault for what happened to her. There are times where that might be true, or could at least be argued, this isn't one of them.

 

[PJHawk]

If the word "stupid" is too harsh...fair enough. Select your own euphemism. But she put herself in a bad position. Unfortunately two absolute punks took advantage of that and her life will never be the same. They deserve everything they've got coming.

hawkdrummer this ^ sums it up pretty well, and I'm sure most of us would agree with what you wrote.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Roommate, Ferentz Testify At Former Player's Trial - Des Moines News Story - KCCI Des Moines

Ferentz just testified as well. Remember - what is now happening is what Deace said would cause Ferentz to be fired. I think in his preseason '08 college ramblings piece is where he wrote that - - B10 coach most likely to be fired.

I do NOT want to start a "firestorm" or sound insensitive to this, because...even if it WAS consensual...it was absolutely TERRIBLE behavior.

But...if I am a juror...this is NOT a slam-dunk case for me. Do I "believe" rape/sexual assault occurred? I tend to think so...but I can NOT honestly say that proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" has been submitted thus far, IMO. Satterfield's testimony MAY seem like a person trying to "turn" on the other alleged perp, but he may also just be disgusted by what said alleged perp did.

A few other things leave me with just as many questions as answers: she wanted to stay a virgin, so she did oral sex. But...pretty hard to prove, after the fact, that she actually WAS a virgin. How sad. Also, she says she doesn't remember Everson's attack because she was passed out. But how does one prove that? "Not remembering" is NOT the same as "not consensual". A victim, even a wholly innocent one, can remember things differently than the alleged perp...WHEN sober. But to "not remember" can be a pretty big chasm in credibility on BOTH sides. Unfortunately, I also harken back to some statement I heard during another sexual assault/rape case cited by a defense attorney. Basically, it said a large percentage of accusations leveled at black men by white women are "unfounded". Don't know the numbers, don't remember the exact case, but it will ALWAYS leave me wondering in cases like this, even if the evidence is overwhelming. And of course, I keep asking why she didn't go straight to the police. I know I never would have expected anything remotely competent to come out of the "Campus Police" I remember from my days in Iowa City. In my mind, they ranked a step or two below CamBus drivers on the personally-created societal hierarchy.

But more to my real point, just look at the devastation this has caused. Satterfield, Everson and Pugh lost careers at a Big Ten school. Ditto the young woman. The others that have testified/will testify have to hate reliving this two-plus years later. The families of the young women and the former players. Can a mother EVER think the same of a son again, even if acquitted, in a case like this?

The whole thing just absolutely sucks, no matter what the verdict ends up being.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

My issue with the word stupid is that it implies that she is somehow at fault for what happened to her. There are times where that might be true, or could at least be argued, this isn't one of them.

I respect your opinion BSpringsteen, but we may disagree here. Getting yourself too drunk to function does not alleviate you from responsiblity.

At the risk of having someone jump on my words and turn them into "You said she had it coming"...or something similarly absurd and reactionary... She did put herself in this situation through her own behavior. Rape is still rape, but her room wasn't broken into...she wasn't jumped on the street. She made herself vunerable.

This is a no-win topic, so I'll stop. It's very sad for this young woman, she was abused horribly. Certainly a lesson I'll share with my daughter when it comes to drinking and "parties". If you're not in control....someone else will be.

 

[BSpringsteen]

^^^^I think this is a fair statement drummerboy.^^^^

 

[okeefe4prez]

A few other things leave me with just as many questions as answers: she wanted to stay a virgin, so she did oral sex. But...pretty hard to prove, after the fact, that she actually WAS a virgin. How sad.

Rape shield law will likely preclude defense from raising this issue at all. If she says she was a virgin, she was a virgin for purposes of the trial.

I missed that Pugh said she was still awake that someone pointed out above. This is going to be a hard case to prove and is going to come down to who the jurors think is more credible. This he said-she said stuff happens at colleges all the time. If I have a daughter, can anyone recommend an all girls college that won't allow men near the campus after 6 PM?

 

[Xerxes]

I do NOT want to start a "firestorm" or sound insensitive to this, because...even if it WAS consensual...it was absolutely TERRIBLE behavior.

But...if I am a juror...this is NOT a slam-dunk case for me. Do I "believe" rape/sexual assault occurred? I tend to think so...but I can NOT honestly say that proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" has been submitted thus far, IMO. Satterfield's testimony MAY seem like a person trying to "turn" on the other alleged perp, but he may also just be disgusted by what said alleged perp did.

A few other things leave me with just as many questions as answers: she wanted to stay a virgin, so she did oral sex. But...pretty hard to prove, after the fact, that she actually WAS a virgin. How sad. Also, she says she doesn't remember Everson's attack because she was passed out. But how does one prove that? "Not remembering" is NOT the same as "not consensual". A victim, even a wholly innocent one, can remember things differently than the alleged perp...WHEN sober. But to "not remember" can be a pretty big chasm in credibility on BOTH sides. Unfortunately, I also harken back to some statement I heard during another sexual assault/rape case cited by a defense attorney. Basically, it said a large percentage of accusations leveled at black men by white women are "unfounded". Don't know the numbers, don't remember the exact case, but it will ALWAYS leave me wondering in cases like this, even if the evidence is overwhelming. And of course, I keep asking why she didn't go straight to the police. I know I never would have expected anything remotely competent to come out of the "Campus Police" I remember from my days in Iowa City. In my mind, they ranked a step or two below CamBus drivers on the personally-created societal hierarchy.

But more to my real point, just look at the devastation this has caused. Satterfield, Everson and Pugh lost careers at a Big Ten school. Ditto the young woman. The others that have testified/will testify have to hate reliving this two-plus years later. The families of the young women and the former players. Can a mother EVER think the same of a son again, even if acquitted, in a case like this?

The whole thing just absolutely sucks, no matter what the verdict ends up being.

Well said. This is just a horrible situation, no matter the outcome.

I too, believe that sexual assault occured. However I also believe with the circumstances (woman passed out & recalls only some of the evening), that guilt is going to be very difficult to prove.

That's why Satterfield is the key. He was in the room with Everson & the woman. Will his testimony be deemed as credible or will he be viewed as a criminal who will say anything to cut a deal and save his own ***.

As a juror, I would have a very difficult time decided between the two.

 

[JRHawks5969]

I want to clarify my thoughts here a bit.

Rape is about the worst crime one can commit. Ergo, it is also one of the worst things someone can be accused of.

I have zero patience for a woman who gets drunk and gets it on, regrets it in the morning and then accuses her partner of something unconscionable.

But, given the testimony of Pugh, Satterfeld and the girl, I do not believe that the above scenario is what happened here. Which is why any notion of the girl being stupid is insulting to me as a human.

Get over yourself.

 

[cibula11]

What's that, getting drunk with her co-athletes that she knew and lived with?
Giving Satterfeld a BJ thinking that would at least allow her to keep her virginity?

or maybe, her stupid move was passing out since Everson took it upon himself to rape her while she was unconscious.

Stupid is going home with someone who you don't know, yet we've all done that numerous times.

Partying with people who you consider your friends most would argue is being responsible.

Sorry drummer man the only stupid thing in this thread was that comment.

Some of the mistakes she made happened a LONG time before that particular incident took place. You don't arrive at some of those moments without some questionable decision making. I will say, after reading that story, it truly disgusted me, especially having two young girls of my own.

 

[IOWuh]

Anyone else wondering if DJK being in the doghouse had anything to do with this? I think I've read he was the one who disposed of a bloody mattress and condom.