Seriously, what's with all the fluff pieces

So you deny that Brian has more than a little football experience and you deny that it is possible he could do a good job? Sounds like a reasonable take.:rolleyes:
He could be a home run hire. It's absolutely possible. But we don't know. He's an unknown at that position because he has never had a similar one anywhere he's been.
 
--------He's an unknown at that position because he has never had a similar one anywhere he's been.

I will tell you what IS KNOWN,.,,,we will NEVER come close to ever being a part of what we saw last nite between Clemson and Alabama until Ferments Sr. is no longer a part of Iowa athletics....in ANY capacity.
 
Hayden Fry hated to lose! He'd empty out the tool box before he lost. KF.....not so much. Not even close.

Doesn't change my response. If you're going to shape facts to debate your point, you can't accuse the other person of doing the same thing.

We all spin arguments to fit what we believe, if you try to say otherwise you are just spinning. What always gets me in these arguments is when people bring up Hayden. If you bow down to Hayden, that means you must be ok with his last 11 years at Iowa (since this is over half his tenure here). Yet at that same time you HATE KF with a burning passion. So one would assume that KF actual results must be very bad compared to Hayden over their last 11 years. Lets take a look:

Last 11 years of Hayden:

72-53-5 (.577%) winning% Overall
46-38-4 (.523%) Winning% B1G

7 Bowl appearances (1 BCS Bowl)
2 Bowl wins


Last 11 years of Ferentz:

86-56 (.606%) Winning% Overall
50-39 (.562%) Winning% B1G

9 Bowl appearances (2 BCS Bowls) 2 years of missing a bowl
3 Bowl Wins including 1 BCS bowl

I personally think they have both done a good job at Iowa. I think it takes a good football coach to win at a 60% clip over 10-15 years at Iowa. It seems like both Hayden and KF had really good years, average years, and down years. Fry's best years were the '81-'87 run and Kirk's best years were the '02-'09 run. I think Iowa is a place that good coaches will win at this rate, but I think it would take an ELITE coach to bring it up a notch for a sustained period of time. Remember that even Nick Saban didn't win big at a MSU,
 
Scott Frost became Oregon's OC with less experience than Brian.

If his name was Brian Alverez for instance, nobody would care. I don't care either way to be honest, I'd rather be young at the OC position, as those guys have a drive as they are ambitious and are looking to be the head man somewhere. You couldn't say that about KOK or Greg Davis, the guys Kirk have surrounded himself with over his tenure. If anything this move took too long, and KF stuck with Greg for too long of a time. He should have hired a young ambitious OC 5 years ago.
 
We all spin arguments to fit what we believe, if you try to say otherwise you are just spinning... <I agree, you are spinning, Deano> What always gets me in these arguments is when people bring up Hayden... I think it takes a good football coach to win at a 60% clip over 10-15 years at Iowa.
What was Iowa's record this season that was so dastardly bad that you wanted Davis fired? 8-5? That comes to approximately 61 percent wins for the year and is better than KF's average of 7.5 wins a year. Are you saying the loses to Florida, Pedo State, Northwestern, SDS and Wisconsin could all be blamed on the offense *SNORT*...spin?
 
What was Iowa's record this season that was so dastardly bad that you wanted Davis fired? 8-5? That comes to approximately 61 percent wins for the year and is better than KF's average of 7.5 wins a year. Are you saying the loses to Florida, Pedo State, Northwestern, SDS and Wisconsin could all be blamed on the offense *SNORT*...spin?

I wanted Davis gone after year 1. I wanted Davis gone after last years 12-2 season. I wanted Davis gone because he couldn't even produce offenses and passing games as good as KOK.

Pretty simple really.
 
We all spin arguments to fit what we believe, if you try to say otherwise you are just spinning. What always gets me in these arguments is when people bring up Hayden. If you bow down to Hayden, that means you must be ok with his last 11 years at Iowa (since this is over half his tenure here). Yet at that same time you HATE KF with a burning passion. So one would assume that KF actual results must be very bad compared to Hayden over their last 11 years. Lets take a look:

Last 11 years of Hayden:

72-53-5 (.577%) winning% Overall
46-38-4 (.523%) Winning% B1G

7 Bowl appearances (1 BCS Bowl)
2 Bowl wins


Last 11 years of Ferentz:

86-56 (.606%) Winning% Overall
50-39 (.562%) Winning% B1G

9 Bowl appearances (2 BCS Bowls) 2 years of missing a bowl
3 Bowl Wins including 1 BCS bowl

I personally think they have both done a good job at Iowa. I think it takes a good football coach to win at a 60% clip over 10-15 years at Iowa. It seems like both Hayden and KF had really good years, average years, and down years. Fry's best years were the '81-'87 run and Kirk's best years were the '02-'09 run. I think Iowa is a place that good coaches will win at this rate, but I think it would take an ELITE coach to bring it up a notch for a sustained period of time. Remember that even Nick Saban didn't win big at a MSU,

You are forgetting (selectively) something big. Fry continually lost coordinators and other coaches as there were hot commodities. He did tend to struggle when losing coordinators. He was at the helm but he gave coordinators a lot of leeway.

Fry had his weaknesses. Prevent defense with leads prevented some wins. Much as you''ll argue, he hated passing down the middle. He relied on the run much more than given credit for.

There is a reason why HF was so loved and KF isn't. It's in how they communicate. HF was a master at positive attitude. He made fans feel proud about being from Iowa (which is pretty ordinary). KF talks about how bad it is to recruit to Iowa. He mentioned in the recent interviews he never had any deliberate intention in staying. When HF did apply for another job he gave a very valid reason, but didn't diss Iowa. Even so, when he did that, the base felt hit in the stomach. KF seemed to enjoy the threat of not saying and half would rejoice.
 
I wanted Davis gone after year 1. I wanted Davis gone after last years 12-2 season. I wanted Davis gone because he couldn't even produce offenses and passing games as good as KOK.

Pretty simple really.
Its simple prejudice on your part. Davis' offense gave Iowa its undefeated season in 2015. Some of those wins were pretty high scoring. Some of those wins had Iowa's offense driving good chunks of yardage to score points with little time on the clock.

No way Iowa would've been undefeated with Iowa's defense in 2015. KF hated Davis' offense and you hated Davis' offense. Is that a coincidence?
 
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Guessing the guys defending Davis offense abilities hated to lose Licklighter (sp) too. Bad is bad, how in the world can folks want more of these types of performances??? The data on GD's offenses is enough to make a decision with no other information.
 
Scott Frost became Oregon's OC with less experience than Brian.

If his name was Brian Alverez for instance, nobody would care. I don't care either way to be honest, I'd rather be young at the OC position, as those guys have a drive as they are ambitious and are looking to be the head man somewhere. You couldn't say that about KOK or Greg Davis, the guys Kirk have surrounded himself with over his tenure. If anything this move took too long, and KF stuck with Greg for too long of a time. He should have hired a young ambitious OC 5 years ago.
Did Frost work for his father and his father's old boss to gain his experience or did he interview and work from the bottom up. It's kinda important.
 
I wanted Davis gone after year 1. I wanted Davis gone after last years 12-2 season. I wanted Davis gone because he couldn't even produce offenses and passing games as good as KOK.

Pretty simple really.
I never wanted him hired in the first place, so...nanna nanna boo boo.
 
"Did Frost work for his father and his father's old boss to gain his experience or did he interview and work from the bottom up. It's kinda important."

While part of this is true, it is also true that Bill Belichick would not have continued to promote BF simply because he is Kirk's son. He doesn't roll that way because if he did, well he wouldn't be Belichick. And it's also true that Bill O'Brien wanted BF on his Houston staff. These are really indisputable. As for why now as OC, you got me. I think he needs more seasoning but . . . Anyway, I will hope things go well for him.
 
"Did Frost work for his father and his father's old boss to gain his experience or did he interview and work from the bottom up. It's kinda important."

While part of this is true, it is also true that Bill Belichick would not have continued to promote BF simply because he is Kirk's son. He doesn't roll that way because if he did, well he wouldn't be Belichick. And it's also true that Bill O'Brien wanted BF on his Houston staff. These are really indisputable. As for why now as OC, you got me. I think he needs more seasoning but . . . Anyway, I will hope things go well for him.
I think the operative word is hope as in 'you hope things go well for Brian' since there isn't any solid evidence that he's been a successful coach on any level for a sustained length of time.
 
The problem here is that everybody here is just going to talk around each other. Why? Because there is a cadre of people who will never ever be happy with anything until Hayden Fry comes back and that's how they're going to approach this conversation. It's never about the issue at hand, it's always about comparing KF to Fry. It's a tired and boring shtick...

In business and psychology and counseling this is known as debating from a position rather than being a proponent of an interest. We ALL want Iowa to do better. This is our interest (I assume, since we're in the HN forums). But instead we're derailing the conversation with Fry vs. Ferentz or just being anti-Brian because he is KF's progeny.

Let's look at this a different way. Let's, for the sake of discussion, assume that Jon and Rob's pieces about Brian have been fluffy. It is likely because they feel that the hire aligns with their interests (Iowa being successful). Instead of engaging that, you go with ad hominem attacks about their fluffy pieces and pull out your pitchforks to extol the virtues of Hayden Fry and condemn Ferentz because he clearly doesn't care about winning. But in the end, you haven't even started to engage the core issue: was this hire good or bad for Iowa? I think some people have been eating too many member berries.
 
The problem here is that everybody here is just going to talk around each other. Why? Because there is a cadre of people who will never ever be happy with anything until Hayden Fry comes back and that's how they're going to approach this conversation. It's never about the issue at hand, it's always about comparing KF to Fry. It's a tired and boring shtick...

In business and psychology and counseling this is known as debating from a position rather than being a proponent of an interest. We ALL want Iowa to do better. This is our interest (I assume, since we're in the HN forums). But instead we're derailing the conversation with Fry vs. Ferentz or just being anti-Brian because he is KF's progeny.

Let's look at this a different way. Let's, for the sake of discussion, assume that Jon and Rob's pieces about Brian have been fluffy. It is likely because they feel that the hire aligns with their interests (Iowa being successful). Instead of engaging that, you go with ad hominem attacks about their fluffy pieces and pull out your pitchforks to extol the virtues of Hayden Fry and condemn Ferentz because he clearly doesn't care about winning. But in the end, you haven't even started to engage the core issue: was this hire good or bad for Iowa? I think some people have been eating too many member berries.

Look, I've come around somewhat now, given what appears to be a nearly wholesale housecleaning of offensive position coaches. If you're going to do that, you want your offense to be in the hands of someone you have complete knowledge and trust in....I get that.

But don't say that I went with ad hominem attacks when I presented ample evidence to the lack of BF's experience in comparison to the 5 other OCs we've had at Iowa in the last 39 years. My point was simply that it didn't appear to me that there was any critical questions being asked about the hire....just one fluff piece after another extoling the virtues of the hire.

But I'm past that now and just ready to see us show that we know how to complete a forward pass! :)
 
The problem here is that everybody here is just going to talk around each other. Why? Because there is a cadre of people who will never ever be happy with anything until Hayden Fry comes back and that's how they're going to approach this conversation. It's never about the issue at hand, it's always about comparing KF to Fry. It's a tired and boring shtick...

In business and psychology and counseling this is known as debating from a position rather than being a proponent of an interest. We ALL want Iowa to do better. This is our interest (I assume, since we're in the HN forums). But instead we're derailing the conversation with Fry vs. Ferentz or just being anti-Brian because he is KF's progeny.

Let's look at this a different way. Let's, for the sake of discussion, assume that Jon and Rob's pieces about Brian have been fluffy. It is likely because they feel that the hire aligns with their interests (Iowa being successful). Instead of engaging that, you go with ad hominem attacks about their fluffy pieces and pull out your pitchforks to extol the virtues of Hayden Fry and condemn Ferentz because he clearly doesn't care about winning. But in the end, you haven't even started to engage the core issue: was this hire good or bad for Iowa? I think some people have been eating too many member berries.

Come on. Don't ya think the apologist schtick claiming Kirk is a "good man" to justify their excuse-making and blame-shifting is also tired and boring?

It's always the fault of the "support staff". The guy in charge of that staff gets raises and extensions every two years while they get fired.

I'm sorry boss, but you have your bias and the rest of us have ours. AND EVERYBODY HAS THEIRS.
 

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