Relaxxxxxx

[ArvadaHawk]

Fran is getting hit because the standard in BB is just making the NCAA tournament. This isn't some enormously tough feat to accomplish. At least 1/2 the B1G makes it each and every year. That is the bottom line measuring stick for BB, it is very, very, very simple.

LOL trying to compare Fran's PG to Kirk's QB's.

Kirk's QB. Banks, Tate 3 years, Sanzi 3 years, Ruddock 2 years, CJ 2 years. That is like having Woolridge and BJ at PG. Instead of giving us players like Woolridge and BJ at PG, Fran gets 4 years of MIke G, and it looks like 4 years of Jordan.

Yeah, we all remember the two great seasons Banks had as a starter and Stanzi winning the outright battle over Lefty and that kirk did not cause us to lose at Pitt by going with Lefty on our last drive instead of a hot Stanzi. Look, if it wasn't for KOK, kirk would start a qb that handed the ball off.

We all know we need a pg. That is the hole in this offense. I am not disputing that. Iowa made the NCAA in 3 of the last 4 seasons; but even then, fans were hitting Fran with "we should have won more games in the tourney, etc. The Iowa fan base seems to be taking their frustrations they have with kirk out on Fran.

 

[deanvogs]

Yeah, we all remember the two great seasons Banks had as a starter and Stanzi winning the outright battle over Lefty and that kirk did not cause us to lose at Pitt by going with Lefty on our last drive instead of a hot Stanzi. Look, if it wasn't for KOK, kirk would start a qb that handed the ball off.

We all know we need a pg. That is the hole in this offense. I am not disputing that. Iowa made the NCAA in 3 of the last 4 seasons; but even then, fans were hitting Fran with "we should have won more games in the tourney, etc. The Iowa fan base seems to be taking their frustrations they have with kirk out on Fran.

I like how you total ignore that Ferentz actually accomplished so much more in his first 6 years than Fran did. If Fran would have won 2 B1G championships and had 3 sweet 16 appearances in his first 6 years, nobody even cares that he misses a NCAA tournament or two.

Plus as I pointed out, Iowa's wows at BB right now go way, way, way deeper than a PG, it is the entire roster makeup that is messed up right now.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Yeah, we all remember the two great seasons Banks had as a starter and Stanzi winning the outright battle over Lefty and that kirk did not cause us to lose at Pitt by going with Lefty on our last drive instead of a hot Stanzi. Look, if it wasn't for KOK, kirk would start a qb that handed the ball off.

We all know we need a pg. That is the hole in this offense. I am not disputing that. Iowa made the NCAA in 3 of the last 4 seasons; but even then, fans were hitting Fran with "we should have won more games in the tourney, etc. The Iowa fan base seems to be taking their frustrations they have with kirk out on Fran.

Fran has 2 NCAA wins in 7 years. Unless there's some drastic turnaround this year, make it 8. That's not so great.

2 of those 3 NCAA appearances were in years that were looking great in January only to see the team totally crater in February/March and barely get in, and make quick exits. Those late season meltdowns felt very Alfordesque in nature.. Not good. I still don't know what happened. It felt like the rest of the league adjusted to us second time through the schedule and Fran had no answers. What should have been great seasons went down the drain. Getting outcoached? Sure felt like it.

Plus after making the dance a few times, it looks like we're going back to not making it again, as a rule.

I'm willing to give Fran through at least next year, but my gut feeling is that he's peaked. I hope to be wrong.

Compared to KF, Fran has accomplished little his first 7-8 years. Not even close IMO. Get a conference title and/or top 10-15 finish nationally for Fran (mid-season rankings don't count), then we'll talk about comparing the two coaches.

 

[DJL]

I don't get how people think that PG is the only holding this team back? We have so many more issues on defense and overall team makeup, it isn't even funny.

-We have 2 too many forwards, and 2 two few guards.
-Not only are we 2 guards short, only 2 of the 4 guards we have a even B1G worthy. Sure getting a better PG solves some of that, as it addresses the lack of guards, but we are still at least 1 other B1G worthy guard short
-We don't have a PF who can play defense on the roster
-Our Bigs are slow footed
-Our overall team speed might be in the bottom 10% of all D1 BB teams
-The one advantage we have over everyone (our length) we don't even take advantage of.

Sure if you wanna think PG is the biggest issue we have, I can get that. To say we are a PG away from being good, HAHAHAHAHA is what I say to that.

We also have a coach who is frequently out-coached on game day. Woof

 

[Joshbrown]

Fry left the cupboard bare. In just a couple seasons, Iowa was winning a conference title and going to an Orange Bowl.
Ferentz followed that up with a couple more top 8 finishes in the country. Then a couple more top tens, some good bowl wins and eventually a 12-0 season a couple years ago.

Fran made Iowa competitive pretty quickly but that is where it has stopped. If he had Iowa in a couple Sweet 16's in his first 8 years, he would be good to go for years to come and cut a lot of slack. There is no comparison in how the two coaches should be looked at as far as performance. The BIG is obviously down this year and we are looking at a "bottom 3" in the league type season. Fran should get next year. If Iowa does not make huge improvements, bye-bye.

In a couple season's huh.
So he musta been using Fry recruits to get to the orange bowl

 

[Joshbrown]

Hawk, Fran has only completed 7 seasons, not 8. But i get what you meant, there. Look, if Fran were to last at Iowa for 13 seasons like Mr. Davis, he is on pace to reaching Mr. Davis's all time wins at Iowa. We all think kirk is a great coach because he's tied Hayden. Under Fran Iowa has made post-season tournament play the last 6 seasons and only his first season did we not make a tournament. And, speaking of that first season, here is the roster of he inherited (these are the plays that had some level of Div 1 talent: Gatens, May, Cole, Brommer, (Devon) Archie, Culley Payne (who transferred and didn't play for Fran). That's it.

So, I fundamentally disagree with your assessment. All I am saying is we need to afford the same standards to Fran as we have, as a fan base, to kirk. Look, other than Banks, Stanzi and Tate, kirk has been horrible at recruiting qb's. We've all known this forever. QB is the same relevant importance as PG. Yet, kirk is king because we can run the football well enough to win 7.5 games a season. That ain't no great shakes, if you ask me. But, Fran is getting hit for not being able to land that true pg. Again, QB and PG are equivalent. There is a different standard in place, in my opinion.

So if we lower our standards in BBall like we have in Football everything is hunky dory. Got it.

 

[Joshbrown]

What would you say is the equivalent? kirks 12-0 turned out to be 12-2 and that took 16 seasons to happen. Fry did NOT leave the cupboard bare. kirk came in and installed his own system; which, as we know, is very different than Fry's. kirk wanted different player types than Fry. So, the decision was kirk's on how to use the talent than was on the roster. Lickliter DID leave the cupboard bare, both in quantity and quality. It was horrendous. Fran has had teams in the top 10 and 5 in-season and we've been to post season 6 straight seasons out of Fran's 7 full seasons at Iowa.

I do agree that the "Fry empty cupboard" thing is waayyy over-played. Ladell Betts and Gallery and Steinbach and Porter and Kasper (Kirk's only 1,000 yard receiver) were just some of the "empty cupboard" players.
Fran inherited a team where the HC ran off his best player every year.

Porter earned second team All-Big Ten honors as both a junior and senior. He was a co-Most Valuable Player in 2002, when the Hawkeyes posted an 11-2 overall record in his final season. Iowa posted a perfect 8-0 mark in Big Ten play to share the league title with national champion Ohio State.

 

[HawkGold]

I do agree that the "Fry empty cupboard" thing is waayyy over-played. Ladell Betts and Gallery and Steinbach and Porter were just some of the "empty cupboard" players.
Fran inherited a team where the HC ran off his best player every year.

Porter earned second team All-Big Ten honors as both a junior and senior. He was a co-Most Valuable Player in 2002, when the Hawkeyes posted an 11-2 overall record in his final season. Iowa posted a perfect 8-0 mark in Big Ten play to share the league title with national champion Ohio State.

So funny how the cupboard being bare thing. Even in Fry's last year they were not terrible. The 97 and 98 classes were top 20 recruiting classes.

The bigger issue was that a 12-21 coach came in and instituted his system rather than scratching where it itched.

Watch video of the early 90s KF Maine teams. It's just like watching Iowa today with different colors.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

Kirk's first 8 years he won 2 B1G titles, finished in the top 10 3 times. He built up good will. He took Iowa to places they hadn't been in decade or longer. If Fran would have won 2 B1G titles by now and made 3 sweet 16's I wouldn't say shit about a down year or two by Fran.

DING DING DING!!!

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

Yeah, we all remember the two great seasons Banks had as a starter and Stanzi winning the outright battle over Lefty and that kirk did not cause us to lose at Pitt by going with Lefty on our last drive instead of a hot Stanzi. Look, if it wasn't for KOK, kirk would start a qb that handed the ball off.

We all know we need a pg. That is the hole in this offense. I am not disputing that. Iowa made the NCAA in 3 of the last 4 seasons; but even then, fans were hitting Fran with "we should have won more games in the tourney, etc. The Iowa fan base seems to be taking their frustrations they have with kirk out on Fran.

Why are you constantly making light of the KF achievements??? Like saying yeah well Fry had Chuck Ling and Ronnie Harmon blah blah blah..


Someone said why isn’t Fran being afforded the same as KF.. well it’s pretty simple on why IMO and it’s not even up for debate!! And let’s not forget we are talkin* accomplishments of the 2coaches in their first 7 years of coaching at Iowa..

 

[ArvadaHawk]

So if we lower our standards in BBall like we have in Football everything is hunky dory. Got it.

no, that isn't what i'm saying. but if you're gonna rail on Fran, then the same contempt should be shoveled at kirk. need the same standard. people want fran fired 8 games into a season that comes after 6 straight tournament seasons. is this really the same standard that kirk was held to?

 

[mrolympia]

we have 23 games left. it's pretty amazing how Fran isn't afforded the same "it's a developmental program" excuse that kirk got from 2010 through 2014. this is a bad start to the season and Fran does need to figure out what to do at pg. he's down 2 pg's he wasn't planning on being down.

difference is the expectations were NCAA or bust this year, not struggle to make the NIT.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Why are you constantly making light of the KF achievements??? Like saying yeah well Fry had Chuck Ling and Ronnie Harmon blah blah blah..


Someone said why isn’t Fran being afforded the same as KF.. well it’s pretty simple on why IMO and it’s not even up for debate!! And let’s not forget we are talkin* accomplishments of the 2coaches in their first 7 years of coaching at Iowa..

you're comparing Frans first 7 basketball seasons against kirks first 7 football seasons from an accomplishments perspective? that's part of the problem. but why is it so simple and not even up for debate? you didn't state why.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

difference is the expectations were NCAA or bust this year, not struggle to make the NIT.

finally, someone with a reasoned argument. I don't disagree with you. but i also know/believe that basketball is a sport where a team can go into conference play .500 (which wouldn't be good for any P5 hoops school) get hot 1/3 of the way into conf play, win a conf tournament and go to the NCAA and make the Sweet 16. That's the nature of basketball. Fran has a big problem at pg and he and his staff need to figure out a way to fix it. but with 23 games left, people have already thrown in the towel on the season. they may all be right. but i do believe Fran is an excellent coach and I'm going to give him the chance to fix it.

 

[lightning1]

we have 23 games left. it's pretty amazing how Fran isn't afforded the same "it's a developmental program" excuse that kirk got from 2010 through 2014. this is a bad start to the season and Fran does need to figure out what to do at pg. he's down 2 pg's he wasn't planning on being down.

No. He's not. Williams wasn't a PG. No matter how many times you put him out there. I can throw a baseball all day long....doesn't make me a pitcher. It does make the MLB manager an idiot for letting me pitch, however.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

you're comparing Frans first 7 basketball seasons against kirks first 7 football seasons from an accomplishments perspective? that's part of the problem. but why is it so simple and not even up for debate? you didn't state why.

Lmao Ok.. I’m responding to someone who asking why isn’t Fran giving the same treatment as KF thru and it’s simple in my view and didn’t feel I needed to stat why.. but ok.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

you're comparing Frans first 7 basketball seasons against kirks first 7 football seasons from an accomplishments perspective? that's part of the problem. but why is it so simple and not even up for debate? you didn't state why.

Here’s why!

In KF first 7 years Iowa won 2 Big Ten Titles.. went to Major Bowls.. finished in Top 8 in the Nation 3 years in a Row.. That’s why!!!

 

[lightning1]

Hawk, Fran has only completed 7 seasons, not 8. But i get what you meant, there. Look, if Fran were to last at Iowa for 13 seasons like Mr. Davis, he is on pace to reaching Mr. Davis's all time wins at Iowa. We all think kirk is a great coach because he's tied Hayden. Under Fran Iowa has made post-season tournament play the last 6 seasons and only his first season did we not make a tournament. And, speaking of that first season, here is the roster of he inherited (these are the plays that had some level of Div 1 talent: Gatens, May, Cole, Brommer, (Devon) Archie, Culley Payne (who transferred and didn't play for Fran). That's it.

So, I fundamentally disagree with your assessment. All I am saying is we need to afford the same standards to Fran as we have, as a fan base, to kirk. Look, other than Banks, Stanzi and Tate, kirk has been horrible at recruiting qb's. We've all known this forever. QB is the same relevant importance as PG. Yet, kirk is king because we can run the football well enough to win 7.5 games a season. That ain't no great shakes, if you ask me. But, Fran is getting hit for not being able to land that true pg. Again, QB and PG are equivalent. There is a different standard in place, in my opinion.

Which is why I laugh when people talk about Tom Davis like he was a great coach.

 

[tksirius]

Hawk, Fran has only completed 7 seasons, not 8. But i get what you meant, there. Look, if Fran were to last at Iowa for 13 seasons like Mr. Davis, he is on pace to reaching Mr. Davis's all time wins at Iowa. We all think kirk is a great coach because he's tied Hayden. Under Fran Iowa has made post-season tournament play the last 6 seasons and only his first season did we not make a tournament. And, speaking of that first season, here is the roster of he inherited (these are the plays that had some level of Div 1 talent: Gatens, May, Cole, Brommer, (Devon) Archie, Culley Payne (who transferred and didn't play for Fran). That's it.

So, I fundamentally disagree with your assessment. All I am saying is we need to afford the same standards to Fran as we have, as a fan base, to kirk. Look, other than Banks, Stanzi and Tate, kirk has been horrible at recruiting qb's. We've all known this forever. QB is the same relevant importance as PG. Yet, kirk is king because we can run the football well enough to win 7.5 games a season. That ain't no great shakes, if you ask me. But, Fran is getting hit for not being able to land that true pg. Again, QB and PG are equivalent. There is a different standard in place, in my opinion.

Which is why I laugh when people talk about Tom Davis like he was a great coach.

The numbers don't appear to agree with you.

Tom Davis had an overall winning % at Iowa of 65.8% and 54.3% in the B1G.
Fran has an overall winning % at Iowa of 57.3% and 50.3% in the B1G.

Lute Olson had overall @ 65.1% and 56.2% in B1G.
Alford had 58.9% overall and 47.7% in B1G.

 

[lightning1]

The numbers don't appear to agree with you.

Tom Davis had an overall winning % at Iowa of 65.8% and 54.3% in the B1G.
Fran has an overall winning % at Iowa of 57.3% and 50.3% in the B1G.

Lute Olson had overall @ 65.1% and 56.2% in B1G.
Alford had 58.9% overall and 47.7% in B1G.

I don't care what the numbers say. His recruiting was bad and his OOC schedule was a bigger joke than Fran's is now. Take away Raveling'a recruits and he'd be sub-.500