Relaxxxxxx

[Robowe]

I wouldn't go around thumping my chest with KF's bowl game success since 09. His biggest successes were:
1. An accident when he totally screwed up end of game management.
2. A win with a QB he really didn't want to play.
3. An Orange Bowl appearance-loss with loss with a QB he didn't want to play.

Went to the 98 road game at Illinois and actually they looked pretty good that game. HF came over and was very warm with the Iowa crowd which was not small.

Was in the stands in the Metrodome for Fry's final game in 1998. That was a beatdown by a Minnesota team that was not great. That Iowa team was ready for the season to be over. With Fry's health, it was understandable that it was time for a change.

 

[lightning1]

I remember when Todd Lickliter team finished last in their own tournament

That may have been the end of the Hawkeye Invitational. I thought it ended much earlier than that but don't know for sure.

 

[HawkGold]

Was in the stands in the Metrodome for Fry's final game in 1998. That was a beatdown by a Minnesota team that was not great. That Iowa team was ready for the season to be over. With Fry's health, it was understandable that it was time for a change.

I get that with the end of the year. The issue I don't see as Fry's health. To me it was more losing coaches and a gap in recruiting which he was on the way to fixing.

I just don't see the cupboard as being bare. It was more the above in conjunction with an inexperienced new head coach with a career 12-21 at IAA changing a system and being .....stubborn. That latter we know is true. What is absolutely confusing is that his best teams were with qbs who weren't conservative, but were risk takers and he won some games due to that bent with those qbs. He's had solid D and solid O line play with out terrific years.

One thing that totally is irritating is the comment (s) about the lack of talent for KF. Some didn't work out, but on paper the 97 and 98 classes were quite good. To say otherwise is wrong. Whether the ratings were off is a different subject.

 

[Robowe]

I get that with the end of the year. The issue I don't see as Fry's health. To me it was more losing coaches and a gap in recruiting which he was on the way to fixing.

I just don't see the cupboard as being bare. It was more the above in conjunction with an inexperienced new head coach with a career 12-21 at IAA changing a system and being .....stubborn. That latter we know is true. What is absolutely confusing is that his best teams were with qbs who weren't conservative, but were risk takers and he won some games due to that bent with those qbs. He's had solid D and solid O line play with out terrific years.

One thing that totally is irritating is the comment (s) about the lack of talent for KF. Some didn't work out, but on paper the 97 and 98 classes were quite good. To say otherwise is wrong. Whether the ratings were off is a different subject.

I don't think the cupboard was bare, but the 1998 team was not good, especially at the end of the season. Fry's health was an issue (admitted by him) and other programs were negatively recruiting Iowa for the past few years.

Everyone knows Ferentz was not Iowa's first choice. But it is what it is. And yes, Kirk is stubborn - most head coaches are. If they didn't think their way was the best way, they wouldn't take the job. Would you hire a head coach who didn't believe that his system was the right way to go?

It took Kirk a while to adjust to the team he had in 1999, the staff he hired, and frankly, being in charge in a major college program. But, once he did, the program improved and became very good for a while. I am not sure what continuing to mention his record at Maine has anything to do with the success Ferentz had early in his career at Iowa (first 7 years or so). I believe the question most have is whether he is able to return to that level or is Iowa just at the level they can expect to be most seasons under Kirk.

Bringing that back to basketball, I believe the same questions are being asked of Fran. Is Iowa going to the next level (making the NCAA tournament consistently and possibly winning some games in the tourney) or is the program an NIT/NCAA borderline program struggling to advance? Fair question at this point, especially with the way this year has started.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

You obviously don't recall the Hawkeye Challenge.
Iowa
vs
Cream Puff St
Marshmallow U
vs
Twinkie Tech

Teams typically set up their own tournament so that they can win it.

Davis also had home/away games with teams like Duke, Kansas and N. Carolina. I recall other non-con games with teams like UCLA, UNLV (the year they won it all) and started the series with Missouri. I also remember a few trips to Maui, Alaska, etc. against some pretty good opponents. Of course there were cupcakes on the schedule, but all teams schedule some of those. The schedule was definitely weak a few years, but I think there's some revisionist history going on re: Mr. Davis.

Mr. Davis may not have been a GREAT coach, but no one could tell me he wasn't a good coach. His recruiting was average but he typically got the most out of what he had.

Bad coaches who can't recruit don't make the NCAA Tournament 9 times in 13 years, never lose a first round game, or win more games than any other coach in school history. Sorry.

 

[PCHawk]

Kirk just lost a lot of coin flips that year so it looked like the cupboard was bare.

 

[Joshbrown]

I don't think the cupboard was bare, but the 1998 team was not good, especially at the end of the season. Fry's health was an issue (admitted by him) and other programs were negatively recruiting Iowa for the past few years.

Everyone knows Ferentz was not Iowa's first choice. But it is what it is. And yes, Kirk is stubborn - most head coaches are. If they didn't think their way was the best way, they wouldn't take the job. Would you hire a head coach who didn't believe that his system was the right way to go?

It took Kirk a while to adjust to the team he had in 1999, the staff he hired, and frankly, being in charge in a major college program. But, once he did, the program improved and became very good for a while. I am not sure what continuing to mention his record at Maine has anything to do with the success Ferentz had early in his career at Iowa (first 7 years or so). I believe the question most have is whether he is able to return to that level or is Iowa just at the level they can expect to be most seasons under Kirk.

Bringing that back to basketball, I believe the same questions are being asked of Fran. Is Iowa going to the next level (making the NCAA tournament consistently and possibly winning some games in the tourney) or is the program an NIT/NCAA borderline program struggling to advance? Fair question at this point, especially with the way this year has started.

The cupboard argument has always been a non-sequitur.
The program's condition wasn't based on 85 players, it was based on 20 years of work put in by JHF before he turned the keys over to KF.
Did KF have some obstacles to overcome (like Fry putting Nebraska on the schedule during those early KF years) ?? Sure. But hey so did Fry when he took over the program. Did you hear Fry make excuses for every loss? Nope. He was a man. An actual male who doesn't like to cry after every game. BTW KF corrected the "scheduling" problem by issuing an edict that our OOC would be pussified. It is the nature of being a new coach that you have obstacles. Did JHF cause the playbook scandal right out of the gate? Nope, that was KF. Had KF ever been a HC at a P5 school before he came to Iowa? Nope, so there was some OJT during his early years.
Does KF get credit for improving year-to-year? Yes. Does he get credit for 02-04? Yes. Does he get credit for usually doing the opposite of whatever the expectations are? Yep. He gets all the credit good and bad.
We're 19 years into his tenure and idiots are still using 1999/2000 as an excuse to keep him. Only an apologist would fail to see that if you have to use that time period to justify keeping someone, you don't really have a winning argument.

 

[BaileyTurner]

This is the first time in the FM era I've felt he is in over his head they've had good runs and yes there have been some fallouts for sure... one bad year like this one (mind you only 8 games in) and everyone is going for his throat..? Y'all seem a bit over dramatic. I am 20 years old and the KF era is something nobody should take a shot at.

KF will win this bowl game.. win the next three years and turn it over to BF and I'm perfectly okay with that. Honestly believe he (BF) can take us to the next level, 50 point games in one year when was the last time that happened?

Comparing KF first 7 years and FM is a joke. -- Again we are one bad hire in either sport from becoming Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Illinois. R-E-L-A-X.

 

[tksirius]

KF will win this bowl game.. win the next three years and turn it over to BF and I'm perfectly okay with that. Honestly believe he (BF) can take us to the next level, 50 point games in one year when was the last time that happened?

Iowa is ranked 107th in total offense.

 

[BaileyTurner]

Iowa is ranked 107th in total offense.

First year on the job. No WR's. Two senior tackles go down? But youre right that on him. LMAO!

I'll hear from you next year when those two Soph. tackles are atleast 2nd or 3rd team B1G. With a top 65 offense and a trip to NY6 bowl game!

 

[mopkins]

This is the first time in the FM era I've felt he is in over his head they've had good runs and yes there have been some fallouts for sure... one bad year like this one (mind you only 8 games in) and everyone is going for his throat..? Y'all seem a bit over dramatic. I am 20 years old and the KF era is something nobody should take a shot at.

KF will win this bowl game.. win the next three years and turn it over to BF and I'm perfectly okay with that. Honestly believe he (BF) can take us to the next level, 50 point games in one year when was the last time that happened?

Comparing KF first 7 years and FM is a joke. -- Again we are one bad hire in either sport from becoming Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Illinois. R-E-L-A-X.

I am actually still stunned that Iowa is somehow worse in every way without Peter Jok. I thought they might take a small step back offensively...which they have...but its not like Jok handled the ball or led the defense.

Was last year a fluke? Is this year so far a fluke? Was it Jok's leadership? Was it the fact that the rest of the team knew Jok was going to take 15 shots per game so they didn't feel pressured to score? I have no idea, but this team was fun to watch last year and this year they're just a frustrating mess

 

[tksirius]

First year on the job. No WR's. Two senior tackles go down? But youre right that on him. LMAO!

I'll hear from you next year when those two Soph. tackles are atleast 2nd or 3rd team B1G. With a top 65 offense and a trip to NY6 bowl game!

lol it's like you're arguing with yourself. Are those tackles a bad thing or a good thing?

 

[tksirius]

 

[Hawkalum2002]

I get that with the end of the year. The issue I don't see as Fry's health. To me it was more losing coaches and a gap in recruiting which he was on the way to fixing.

I just don't see the cupboard as being bare. It was more the above in conjunction with an inexperienced new head coach with a career 12-21 at IAA changing a system and being .....stubborn. That latter we know is true. What is absolutely confusing is that his best teams were with qbs who weren't conservative, but were risk takers and he won some games due to that bent with those qbs. He's had solid D and solid O line play with out terrific years.

One thing that totally is irritating is the comment (s) about the lack of talent for KF. Some didn't work out, but on paper the 97 and 98 classes were quite good. To say otherwise is wrong. Whether the ratings were off is a different subject.

The cupboard wasn't really bare at all IMO, the same players that were freshman and redshirt freshman in 98 were many of the same guys that won the Alamo Bowl and made the Orange Bowl. And Robert Gallery (and AJ Epenesa too in fact) were both great Ferentz recruits that were the result of Fry decisions previously. 1999 was hurt badly by their best offensive weapon being suspended for the season. They may have only won 3 games, but that's still better than 1-10. Fun trivia fact: Hayden left Kirk more wide receivers that made the NFL in Kasper, Hill, and Yamini than Kirk has had in his 19 years of his own recruiting! (McNutt and Tevaun Smith). Kirk also had Flemister and Wheatley at tight end that made the NFL. He had Betts and at least four offensive lineman that made the NFL (Sobieski, Nelson, Steinbach, McKinney). Herron, Kampman, Bowen on defense, Baker at punter. Lots of talented pieces for a bare cupboard.

 

[HawkGold]

I don't think the cupboard was bare, but the 1998 team was not good, especially at the end of the season. Fry's health was an issue (admitted by him) and other programs were negatively recruiting Iowa for the past few years.

Everyone knows Ferentz was not Iowa's first choice. But it is what it is. And yes, Kirk is stubborn - most head coaches are. If they didn't think their way was the best way, they wouldn't take the job. Would you hire a head coach who didn't believe that his system was the right way to go?

It took Kirk a while to adjust to the team he had in 1999, the staff he hired, and frankly, being in charge in a major college program. But, once he did, the program improved and became very good for a while. I am not sure what continuing to mention his record at Maine has anything to do with the success Ferentz had early in his career at Iowa (first 7 years or so). I believe the question most have is whether he is able to return to that level or is Iowa just at the level they can expect to be most seasons under Kirk.

Bringing that back to basketball, I believe the same questions are being asked of Fran. Is Iowa going to the next level (making the NCAA tournament consistently and possibly winning some games in the tourney) or is the program an NIT/NCAA borderline program struggling to advance? Fair question at this point, especially with the way this year has started.

Fry and his health, who knows. He was classy and put blame back on himself mostly. KF's record at Iowa is nothing to sneeze at. Anyway it's over and I use the Maine stuff to counter act those who seem to want to tear HF to shreds. He wasn't perfect. As mentioned, Fry's Prevent D prevented a number of wins.

KF's main record did show he likely wasn't ready to be a big time coach when hired. Honest people can debate all day about the magical season and both be right. I think the Maine mention is mention worthy as most programs never would have hired a coach with that record and lack of experience. Had Brad Banks not come on board AND if HF hadn't brought in some good talent that Kirk worked with, then who knows what the history would have been. Three losses during the season at least. No on can argue that KF didn't bring in/develop some great talent as he's done most years. I personally think this was one of his better talented teams this year. Fry later did try and get back into football coaching.

I think Fran has brought Iowa to the next level except for one piece. This year sort of reminds me of the Final 4 team, when Lester was out. I know there are difference (that team was much more rugged and could play D, but the PG thing is so underestimated. It puts the entire defense a step slow and keeps players from getting as many good shots on O. I don't think Fran's current Hawks are bad at all, just missing an ingredient.

To me it showed more when UAB Nick Norton got his minutes cut. Norton is quick and short. They went a more street ball at the point against Iowa. UAB is not a good team.

 

[seepig]

I'll relax when we win 1 JUST 1 Big Ten Championship in a MAJOR sport. Don't get me wrong I love Rick Heller and what he's done (underpaid for the job he has done compared to all the higher paid coaches).

 

[lightning1]

This is the first time in the FM era I've felt he is in over his head they've had good runs and yes there have been some fallouts for sure... one bad year like this one (mind you only 8 games in) and everyone is going for his throat..? Y'all seem a bit over dramatic. I am 20 years old and the KF era is something nobody should take a shot at.

KF will win this bowl game.. win the next three years and turn it over to BF and I'm perfectly okay with that. Honestly believe he (BF) can take us to the next level, 50 point games in one year when was the last time that happened?

Comparing KF first 7 years and FM is a joke. -- Again we are one bad hire in either sport from becoming Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Illinois. R-E-L-A-X.

And what if he doesn't win this Bowl game? Are you gonna call for his job?

 

[ibahawkeye]

Came to read a basketball thread.... ended up a Kirk debate.

 

[deanvogs]

Came to read a basketball thread.... ended up a Kirk debate.

This thread hijack sponsored by Gold, @HawkGold that is.

 

[HawkGold]

This thread hijack sponsored by Gold, @HawkGold that is.

No, sorry you can't read idiot.