HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
Nor non-motivated to be good enough to play in the NFL.
Recruiting Theory v. Reality
- Thread starter ChosenChildren
- Start date
HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
Why not mention other babies that were thrown out with the bathwater that doesn't fit your narrative?
That WR that transferred to Texas Tech? That WR/running back who's transferring that didn't play a lick of downs under KF? That running back who eventually transferred to Grandview College and the Panthers? Beathard and Wadley if not for Davis?
How about those babies, for example, thrown out with the bathwater? This is why KF and Iowa have terrible records recruiting skill players.
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HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
Iowa's best recruiter on offense left when Davis 'retired'.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Where did I say there weren't misses as well? There are misses with 4* kids I could show you as well. I am just saying that Iowa has a high enough hit rate with the 2* and late offer kids that any clear thinking person can easily see this. It really makes no sense to trash a Wadley, King, Jewell, VandeBerg, etc when they sign, just because they are a 2* or late recruit.
HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
I disagree. Many on this board say 5* don't pan out. I say: KF hopes 2* don't pan out ('cause he can't get anything better).
HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
Let me get this straight. You're saying the system (KF's system) is better than any star designation on any recruit?
Are you saying Saban's system at Alabama is better than all the high star recruits that play for him? That Florida State's system is better than all the high star recruits that play for them? USC and Texas may be examples of schools where the 'quality athlete' doesn't automatically guarantee greatness.
Name a few schools with systems that don't have quality recruiting classes that still have quality seasons year after year...other than Georgia Tech.
I guarantee you the schools that successfully recruit, year after year, have successful seasons, year after year, and Iowa doesn't fit into that category of schools that don't recruit successfully yet have successful seasons.
It doesn't really matter if Iowa has the great recruiting class because Iowa's system doesn't utilize the athletic ability of the great recruiting class.
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Dean, I have traveled down this road before. Do not bother engaging/debating because no matter how many times and how clearly you state your point, Homer will be arguing a completely different, strawman point that he ascribes to you that you never made. And you will never break through. Ever.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
The 2000's were an unprecedented period in Michigan football comparable to Penn States "Dark years". They just couldn't get out of their own way for pretty much a decade.
We can make excuses and defend KF all we want, but we were 12-0 not so long ago, and the fact that this class is a flaming turd, on par with Iowa State; saved only by a legacy recruit is completely unacceptable. I've tried to stay positive and hopeful we would land a few of these guys. It's looking like we are going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel now. What was once an exciting, promising class as almost become a sick joke.
ChosenChildren
Well-Known Member
You are correct. Sorry for that error. I forgot the 2016 win against Michigan (a big omission)
earlkoppelman
Well-Known Member
Well stated.several more 4STARS would make huge difference.OUTLAW MR.AKRUM =4 STAR WOW NO?
koralakers
Well-Known Member
good points by OP. We seem to compete well against high-level teams, yet KF EASILY holds the all-time record for loses as a double-digit favorite. Can't beat the ISUs, NWs, W Mich, C Mich, N IL, etc...
Kinda weird we have MAC-level talent, but compete well with 'talented' teams. Yet, with our MAC-level recruits, we can't actually beat MAC teams...
Kinda weird we have MAC-level talent, but compete well with 'talented' teams. Yet, with our MAC-level recruits, we can't actually beat MAC teams...
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
Let's face it, Iowa recruits a specific type of player. One that isn't going to ruffle feathers, and more importantly, annoy KF. Sometimes they do get those players, and as DJK said recently, the only reason he saw the field for KF was due to his production. Otherwise, not a chance. And to be fair to KF, DJK was definitely a headcase.
I think KF was burned by the CBI fiasco back in 2006/2007. Everson was a 4* CB, but the rest I think were either 2/3 star players that got busted. But the damage was done, KF is going to vet these recruits to the extreme.
KF self fulfilling prophecy doesn't help matters either. He wants good stories. Hard workers (who doesn't), but perception is he won't go after the highly rated guys because of the drama involved. Look how this recruiting class turned out after we landed a few big verbals.
We will continue to scour the land for that diamond in the rough. We'll have 2-3 years of extremely average football, followed by a slight uptick if attrition doesn't hit hard.
KF is fine with 7-5. If he isn't, then Bart is. That is what you strive for when you consistently rank in the bottom of the Big10 in recruiting, and middle of the road in the national ranks.
It is what it is.
I think KF was burned by the CBI fiasco back in 2006/2007. Everson was a 4* CB, but the rest I think were either 2/3 star players that got busted. But the damage was done, KF is going to vet these recruits to the extreme.
KF self fulfilling prophecy doesn't help matters either. He wants good stories. Hard workers (who doesn't), but perception is he won't go after the highly rated guys because of the drama involved. Look how this recruiting class turned out after we landed a few big verbals.
We will continue to scour the land for that diamond in the rough. We'll have 2-3 years of extremely average football, followed by a slight uptick if attrition doesn't hit hard.
KF is fine with 7-5. If he isn't, then Bart is. That is what you strive for when you consistently rank in the bottom of the Big10 in recruiting, and middle of the road in the national ranks.
It is what it is.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Ummm, I didn't say anything that you said I said.
If you would bother to really look at things, you would know that over the last 15 years (no small sample size) Iowa has the 19th best winning % of all the teams that were P5 teams that entire span. Iowa has a higher winning % over that time than the following schools who recruit at an elite level, or a very high level
Notre Dame
Michigan
Miami
Nebraska
MSU
Tennessee
UCLA
S. Carolina
Arkansas
Texas A&M
Iowa does that with recruiting class ranked pretty much from #40-60.
Now do I wish Iowa recruited even better and could be in the top 10 teams in winning % over the last 15 years? Yeah, I sure do wish that. As it is, Iowa finds enough players to be a top 20 winning % program while having barely average recruiting rankings.
Iowa has reaped what they have sowed on the recruiting trails. Some believe they have done well and some don't subscribe to that belief. I happen to believe for many years that it is not this staff's strength and that belief has been reinforced once again this year in my eyes. Data and examples can be thrown out by both sides supporting their respective beliefs.
I think when all this is over again soon that those in the business that write about such things (and don't carry an Iowa bias) will assess this class as fair at best.......typical Iowa for the most part.
As one writer put it that follows and reports on the BIG recruiting...........the new coaches get it (referring to Meyer, Harbaugh, Franklin), making recruiting a top priority. You would be surprised how many coaches nationally are still buried in X's, O's, and clipboards.
I think when all this is over again soon that those in the business that write about such things (and don't carry an Iowa bias) will assess this class as fair at best.......typical Iowa for the most part.
As one writer put it that follows and reports on the BIG recruiting...........the new coaches get it (referring to Meyer, Harbaugh, Franklin), making recruiting a top priority. You would be surprised how many coaches nationally are still buried in X's, O's, and clipboards.
Robowe
Well-Known Member
I don't think KF looks for good stories necessarily. I just think he looks for players he realistically thinks Iowa can get. Here's the analogy I was going to present to Playmaker (no, it's not perfect):
In HS, when a guy wants to go to Homecoming or Prom, he decides who is going to ask. If the guy is popular/athletic/football team, etc., he can ask anyone and they might go. He doesn't worry about anyone saying no (again, hyperbole).
If you are not quite that level (not Mr. Popular, athlete, etc.), you don't waste your time asking the Homecoming Queen candidate or the cheerleader, you ask someone who you think might say yes.
For Iowa recruiting, I think they set their sights on certain types of player (as you mentioned) but also don't try to shoot too high and waste their time dealing with/visiting recruits that will never come here. Now, you can say you never get the recruits you never try for. However, with a set timeframe, you can't try for everyone and hope they knock down your door to come.
Now, with the Texas recruits that didn't come here, they actually had the popular, good-looking girl say yes to the dance invite. However, they told her not to date anyone else and she didn't listen. It's a bit maddening, but when you have low self-esteem (or don't think you have a blue blood team), you don't like when they look around a bit.
That's a long way of saying I don't think that the Iowa staff (KF in particular) is lazy or wants 'good stories'. They feel they are realistically looking for players who will say yes. The same reason normal guys in HS don't ask every girl that's above him in status, etc. until one says yes.
Final point - Oliver Martin is the good looking girl that you knew growing up and she lives just down the block from you. You didn't really notice her right away, but when she became popular, you decided to ask her. Well, once one of the popular guys asked her, now she is going to decide whether to go with the popular choice or the familiar choice down the block.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Is this pointed at me? I don't know about since the Orange Bowl. I do know that from 2013-now (last 4 years) after that disasterous 2012 season we are tied for the 17th best P5 winning %
I posted 15 years of data, because many times Iowa or MSU or many teams have good 3-5 year stretches. In the last Iowa has had good years, average years and down years. Yet some around here think that is a bad program and don't realize that happens to most over 15 years.
homes
Well-Known Member
This gets harder and harder to do with more information available to everyone. It was a good model to go by back in the day, much harder to sustain now.
