Recruiting Theory v. Reality

[ChosenChildren]

This board has been full of complaints that recruiting under Kirk Ferentz results in 2 and 3 star players, making it impossible for us to compete with other teams capturing the 4 and 5 star players.

Over the Ferentz tenure, against elite Big Ten teams, the reality is that Ferentz HAS COMPETED WELL against those teams with the players he has recruited. All you have to do is study the records.

The elite teams in the Big Ten, from a recruiting standpoint, have been Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska, Michigan State and Wisconsin.

Here are the Ferentz records against everybody except Ohio State:

1. Michigan 7-5
2. Wisconsin 7-9
3. Nebraska 3-5
4. Penn St 8-4
5. MSU 7-7

Overall record: 32-30

The team Ferentz has not competed well against is Ohio State: 1 win and 8 losses.

Unlike many other coaches, Ferentz can take 2 and 3 star athletes (with a very few 4 stars) and compete well against the top of the Big Ten. Teams like Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue etc. take the same athletes and do not compete well.

It is really a credit to the coaching acumen and strength and conditioning programs under Ferentz.

 

[homes]

Good for him competing so well against these programs with higher class rankings, it does reflect his ability to get the most out of his players. But doesn't this suggest that if he had better players across the board, his record would be better. However, that's not reality, and after 18 years it's sort of baked into the sauce now. Probably a big reason he has so many supporters and complainers.

 

[uihawk82]

Yes, KF is 31-30 against those very good teams and only 50-50 against ISU. Playing down to the competition.

I agree with 'homes' that KF shouldnt be satisfied with his recruiting rankings but aiming higher and then they can win more.

 

[Caddy]

We shouldn't be satisfied with being 11th in the B1G in recruiting? Kirk and Brian are dynamic recruiters.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

This board has been full of complaints that recruiting under Kirk Ferentz results in 2 and 3 star players, making it impossible for us to compete with other teams capturing the 4 and 5 star players.

Over the Ferentz tenure, against elite Big Ten teams, the reality is that Ferentz HAS COMPETED WELL against those teams with the players he has recruited. All you have to do is study the records.

The elite teams in the Big Ten, from a recruiting standpoint, have been Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska, Michigan State and Wisconsin.

Here are the Ferentz records against everybody except Ohio State:

1. Michigan 6-5
2. Wisconsin 7-9
3. Nebraska 3-5
4. Penn St 8-4
5. MSU 7-7

Overall record: 31-30

The team Ferentz has not competed well against is Ohio State: 1 win and 8 losses.

Unlike many other coaches, Ferentz can take 2 and 3 star athletes (with a very few 4 stars) and compete well against the top of the Big Ten. Teams like Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue etc. take the same athletes and do not compete well.

It is really a credit to the coaching acumen and strength and conditioning programs under Ferentz.

Boy, just think what the guy could do with 4-5* players. Not sure who's point your posts supports more. Just sayin'.

 

[taffaej]

If you are okay with 500 football then you should probably be a Cyclone fan. Here at Iowa we expect better than 500 football. Think about where the program would be if we did recruit better.

 

[DBAHawkFan]

Imagine if we had a better record against the lower level teams in the Big10, and against the directional Michigan schools!!

 

[HawkInATX]

Perhaps many of those highly touted four and five star recruits want the attention and adoration without the hard work more often than 2-3 star players? Just as important as measurables and performance in high school is the mesh between the players and between players+coaches.

But you can't just say, without any evidence, that 4-5* players will "fit in". And I don't just mean with the coaching staff. I also mean with the other players. I'm not trying to get down on some of these kids, but when you're considered an elite prospect, that can go to your head when you're only 16-18 years old. All that adoration and media attention can take away from the game and make it harder for that player to gel with the rest of the team.

 

[Stanzi]

If you are okay with 500 football then you should probably be a Cyclone fan. Here at Iowa we expect better than 500 football. Think about where the program would be if we did recruit better.

I wish we could recruit better, but ISU is more like .300 football.

 

[thetrza]

With signing day less than a week from now, Its Time For Some Game Theory.....

 

[AreWeThereYet]

Certain positions demand a particular body type and set of skills. Than you get into proven ability and motivation. Iowa can often find the body type, basic skills, and motivation. A lot of recruits are short on proven ability, experience, and specific skills for the position they will eventually play. Raw recruits need a longer period to bring their level of play up and some will never quite pan out.

That being said, recruiting is only part of the problem at receiver. Even with MAC level recruits at receiver, Iowa's passing offense shouldn't be as stifled as it has been under Davis.

 

[OkstHawk]

Perhaps many of those highly touted four and five star recruits want the attention and adoration without the hard work more often than 2-3 star players? Just as important as measurables and performance in high school is the mesh between the players and between players+coaches.

But you can't just say, without any evidence, that 4-5* players will "fit in". And I don't just mean with the coaching staff. I also mean with the other players. I'm not trying to get down on some of these kids, but when you're considered an elite prospect, that can go to your head when you're only 16-18 years old. All that adoration and media attention can take away from the game and make it harder for that player to gel with the rest of the team.

That's a mighty big assumption that perhaps most of those 4/5 star recruits aren't hard workers. I guess Saban just allows them to come in and not work hard and they win national championships every other year. Derp

 

[ShockHawk22]

Perhaps many of those highly touted four and five star recruits want the attention and adoration without the hard work more often than 2-3 star players? Just as important as measurables and performance in high school is the mesh between the players and between players+coaches.

But you can't just say, without any evidence, that 4-5* players will "fit in". And I don't just mean with the coaching staff. I also mean with the other players. I'm not trying to get down on some of these kids, but when you're considered an elite prospect, that can go to your head when you're only 16-18 years old. All that adoration and media attention can take away from the game and make it harder for that player to gel with the rest of the team.

Some maybe. But I bet most high star players get there because they bust their ass and want to be great (see AJ Eppy).

 

[guffus]

I know this only helps your argument but

Ferentz has at least 7 wins against Michigan

2002, 2003, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2016

Including wins in 5 of the last 6 games against Michigan. Mich won in 2012, and teams did not play in 2014 or 2015

 

[earlkoppelman]

Yes, KF is 31-30 against those very good teams and only 50-50 against ISU. Playing down to the competition.

I agree with 'homes' that KF shouldnt be satisfied with his recruiting rankings but aiming higher and then they can win more.[

This board has been full of complaints that recruiting under Kirk Ferentz results in 2 and 3 star players, making it impossible for us to compete with other teams capturing the 4 and 5 star players.

Over the Ferentz tenure, against elite Big Ten teams, the reality is that Ferentz HAS COMPETED WELL against those teams with the players he has recruited. All you have to do is study the records.

The elite teams in the Big Ten, from a recruiting standpoint, have been Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska, Michigan State and Wisconsin.

Here are the Ferentz records against everybody except Ohio State:

1. Michigan 6-5
2. Wisconsin 7-9
3. Nebraska 3-5
4. Penn St 8-4
5. MSU 7-7

Overall record: 31-30

The team Ferentz has not competed well against is Ohio State: 1 win and 8 losses.

Unlike many other coaches, Ferentz can take 2 and 3 star athletes (with a very few 4 stars) and compete well against the top of the Big Ten. Teams like Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue etc. take the same athletes and do not compete well.

It is really a credit to the coaching acumen and strength and conditioning programs under Ferentz.[/QUOTEou
you are DIGGING very DEEP for this REALITY.overall record each season for the teams please.CAP I mean our cap can spin with best of them no?

This board has been full of complaints that recruiting under Kirk Ferentz results in 2 and 3 star players, making it impossible for us to compete with other teams capturing the 4 and 5 star players.

Over the Ferentz tenure, against elite Big Ten teams, the reality is that Ferentz HAS COMPETED WELL against those teams with the players he has recruited. All you have to do is study the records.

The elite teams in the Big Ten, from a recruiting standpoint, have been Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska, Michigan State and Wisconsin.

Here are the Ferentz records against everybody except Ohio State:

1. Michigan 6-5
2. Wisconsin 7-9
3. Nebraska 3-5
4. Penn St 8-4
5. MSU 7-7

Overall record: 31-30

The team Ferentz has not competed well against is Ohio State: 1 win and 8 losses.

Unlike many other coaches, Ferentz can take 2 and 3 star athletes (with a very few 4 stars) and compete well against the top of the Big Ten. Teams like Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue etc. take the same athletes and do not compete well.

It is really a credit to the coaching acumen and strength and conditioning programs under Ferentz.

 

[Kennyfromminne]

That's a mighty big assumption that perhaps most of those 4/5 star recruits aren't hard workers. I guess Saban just allows them to come in and not work hard and they win national championships every other year. Derp

You don't get rated highly by being lazy. Completely stupid.

 

[Caddy]

According to the apologists KF lands the only 2 star players that work hard. All the highly rated players are lazy, don't work hard, and were just blessed with their talent from birth. Most of these lowly rated players are rated that low for a reason, and they don't have any other offers, or only MAC offers for a reason. KF and his staff of recruiting midgets don't have a special gift for seeing these players, rather they are fall back recruits that we're trying to fill the class with. Every so often by chance a couple of them pan out and become great players, but more often than not, they live up to their low rating. Now give the Dallas Clark and Bob Sanders examples from 13 years ago.. Recruiting is a whole different ball game than it was over a decade ago. Maybe our staff should join this decade and get with it.

 

[HomerChampless]

We shouldn't be satisfied with being 11th in the B1G in recruiting? Kirk and Brian are dynamic recruiters.

We know KF isn't a good recruiter and Brian, well, the jury's out.

 

[deanvogs]

According to the apologists KF lands the only 2 star players that work hard. All the highly rated players are lazy, don't work hard, and were just blessed with their talent from birth. Most of these lowly rated players are rated that low for a reason, and they don't have any other offers, or only MAC offers for a reason. KF and his staff of recruiting midgets don't have a special gift for seeing these players, rather they are fall back recruits that we're trying to fill the class with. Every so often by chance a couple of them pan out and become great players, but more often than not, they live up to their low rating. Now give the Dallas Clark and Bob Sanders examples from 13 years ago.. Recruiting is a whole different ball game than it was over a decade ago. Maybe our staff should join this decade and get with it.

Where did anyone say this?

The only think "apologist" point out is the fact that some 2* kids work out very well. This seems to really upset "da Haters" though. Not sure why. Plus you are forgetting a few 2* kids or late MAC offer kids, or heck even no offers for some kids:

Ojemudia
Anthony Nelson
Hesse
Josh Jackson
Ben Niemann
Josey Jewell
Akrum Wadley
Matt VandeBerg
Desmond King
George Kittle
Nate Meier
Jordan Canzeri
Lowdermilk
Tanner Miller
Anthony Hitchens
Martin-Manley
Michah Hyde
Dominic Alvis
Mike Daniels

These are just kids over the last few years. KF and Iowa have an additional decade worth of other 2*/MAC players to list on top of these. I mean the evidence just shows that you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater with 2* kids or late signees. That is just a fact, and just because your small mind can't see that, doesn't mean that the rest of us can't see it. Do I get as excited by the commitment of Max Cooper and Henry Marchese? No I don't, but I don't rip them up and down, because in 3 years their stupid Rivals ranking doesn't mean a thing, what they are or aren't doing on the field will be what matters.

 

[GesterHawk]

I don't think there is anyone on this site that doesn't want more blue chip recruits. I think pretty much everyone wishes we would have kept Eno, Chevin, and Gavin in the fold.
I just think that there are two different mindsets on this site: the sky is falling and it is OK we will be alright.
I think the real answer is somewhere in between. There will be lower rates kids that will surprise us and there will be some that won't see the field. This is the way it has always been at Iowa where hard work, understanding the role of the position and fit are more important than raw athletic ability.
For good or bad, that is the way KF runs his program. And when the good is good, it looks really good. And when the bad is bad, it can look pretty bad.