Poll: Who's Going To Win Tuesday?

[PCHawk]

I've heard humors but haven't seen the video about the same guy, but there's so many others who have been ID'd inside Capitol Hill that are Trump supporters or affiliated with QAnon and Good Ol' Boys its hard telling. On the bright side, if there is one, it should become pretty clear in the next few days who a lot of the individuals are that are involved, since everyone has this weird idea that when you do something illegal it's a good idea to post what you did on social media.

No doubt most people were Trump supporters, just like most people were legit BLM protestors. All it takes is a handful of people to escalade a mob. For instance if I was at Capital Hill (I would never be because I have a life) no way I break out windows and go inside. Bit if someone else broke them and went in, then a bunch of other people followed, I would consider it for a few seconds. Then after that I would say F that. But the point is, a lot of people would follow.

Best case scenario, it comes out that it was a group starting all the violence to insight division. Then both sides come together, say F those guys, and his it out.

 

[kicker22]

No doubt most people were Trump supporters, just like most people were legit BLM protestors. All it takes is a handful of people to escalade a mob. For instance if I was at Capital Hill (I would never be because I have a life) no way I break out windows and go inside. Bit if someone else broke them and went in, then a bunch of other people followed, I would consider it for a few seconds. Then after that I would say F that. But the point is, a lot of people would follow.

Best case scenario, it comes out that it was a group starting all the violence to insight division. Then both sides come together, say F those guys, and his it out.

It's definitely going to be a crazy next couple weeks.

 

[Fryowa]

I've heard humors but haven't seen the video about the same guy, but there's so many others who have been ID'd inside Capitol Hill that are Trump supporters or affiliated with QAnon and Good Ol' Boys its hard telling. On the bright side, if there is one, it should become pretty clear in the next few days who a lot of the individuals are that are involved, since everyone has this weird idea that when you do something illegal it's a good idea to post what you did on social media.

You mean Proud Boys?

 

[kicker22]

You mean Proud Boys?

Yeah...too many Boys to keep track of. You throw in boy bands and there's no way I can keep them all straight.

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

Yeah...too many Boys to keep track of. You through in boy bands and theres no way I can keep them all straight.

Do as I do and give them a more memorable alternative nickname. Some possibilities:

The Green Buffets
Y'all Queda
Meal Team 6
Talitubbies
Q Cucks Clan

 

[tailgater371]

Great question and its hard for me to say to be honest. I'm on the side where to say there's no fraud whatsoever would be impossible, but I truly believe that if there was it wasn't to the extent where it cost him the election. I'm also confused as to why only democrats or those votes against him are the only votes that could possibly be fraudulent. And why only press the issue in the states that he felt they should have won? If the proof is as substantial as he claims why aren't they winning more law suits, and why isn't he making the same accusations in states he won.

The problem I have with it the claiming that the election is fraudulent and his continuing to claim he won by a landslide is that by the same logic its saying that those who went against him (like myself) don't really have a vote and that only votes that should count are his.

But I think its becoming more and more a firecracker because of the way he's handled himself. He's constantly stirring the pot and I honestly don't know if he truly believes the election was as rigged or he simply refuses to accept the fact he lost and is trying to manipulate those that support him into to drag things out even further.

I guess I don't have a problem so much with people standing up for what they believe in, as much as I have a problem with who's barking the loudest and who's leading the masses. I think a lot of what is said, not all, is unfounded, false, or absolute lies and that is used to fuel the masses and drives the anger and hatred. My issue is the fact that he's totally crossed the line and is acting more like a tyrant than a leader at this point. The leader of a "free" country doesn't try to interrupt what should be a peaceful transfer of power. The leader of a "free" country doesn't pressure his vice president to do something that he lawfully doesn't have the authority to do. A leader doesn't instruct his followers to march with him and then disappear off to the white house while they storm the capital. A true leader doesn't jeopardize or take the lives of those he took an oath to defend and as the face of nation doesn't lead an assault on the landmark that is symbolic for democracy.

All this by the same guy that took issue with athletes kneeling because of what the flag stands for.

Very well said.

 

[tailgater371]

The one thing about fraud this year is its supposedly coming from mail in voting which is primarily democratic votes. Thats the logic on that one. That said, there was a pretty big irregularity in Dade County Florida too. Sounds like there was some vote dumping going on there. Really the only thing that would make me say that I doubt it was enough to cost Biden Florida would be me being blinded by the fact that Trump one. My mind doesn't work like that. There is no way for me to have any idea how many votes got dumped there.

That said, of course Trump is only going to dispute places he lost. Just like a coach is only going to dispute calls that go against him. I've got no issue with that. What I do think tho is if they are going to look into the places he's disputing, they need to look into Dade County too. And I also have a huge issue with him saying he won in a landslide. He sounds like an idiot saying that.

As far as him stirring the post, that's been a 2 way street for 4 years. Liberals have gotten really good at twisting every single thing into race. The things Trump says compared to the things the media says he says is a huge difference. Unless you actually listen to what Trump says (with a mind that doesn't look for race in everything) you wouldn't ever know what he actually said. It's really bad and frankly backed Trump into a corner where he had no choice but to take it or look like a teenage girl on Twitter.

The last thing goes back to my question earlier about whether or not you think someone should fight if there truly was voter fraud. If there was, and Trump truly knows there was, then im not sure I can blame him for anything he's done to insight that riot. If he doesn't truly believe there was fraud, I agree everything he has done is terrible. Really the biggest difference between what you think of Trumps actions and what I think is our opinions on the possibility of there actually being fraud.

There's no way for Trump to "know"there's major fraud. He would need to.rely on his intelligence team and they all say no.

 

[PCHawk]

There's no way for Trump to "know"there's major fraud. He would need to.rely on his intelligence team and they all say no.

I agree with that if they really said there wasn't, then he couldn't possible know there was. I haven't seen where they said there wasn't any. Unfortunately these days, you have to question everything. With the media being liberal, big tech being liberal, and stupid celebrities being liberal, it's becoming pretty one sided with information.

Now it looks like they want to impeach Trump again as fast as they can for the sole purpose of making sure he can't win another election. Seems kinda like undermining democracy to me. I get it, Trump incited riots, just like democrats did all year long. Should all those people lose a chance to win an election too? Or should it be just be talked about how they also caused death and destruction by inciting violence so voters remember next election and let voters make up their own mind? Man do democrats play dirty.

 

[kicker22]

I agree with that if they really said there wasn't, then he couldn't possible know there was. I haven't seen where they said there wasn't any. Unfortunately these days, you have to question everything. With the media being liberal, big tech being liberal, and stupid celebrities being liberal, it's becoming pretty one sided with information.

Now it looks like they want to impeach Trump again as fast as they can for the sole purpose of making sure he can't win another election. Seems kinda like undermining democracy to me. I get it, Trump incited riots, just like democrats did all year long. Should all those people lose a chance to win an election too? Or should it be just be talked about how they also caused death and destruction by inciting violence so voters remember next election and let voters make up their own mind? Man do democrats play dirty.

I don't see everything being "one sided with information". What I see is the media is one extreme or the other. CNN is anti-Trump and he can do no right. Fox is in bed with him and he can do no wrong. The problem in my opinion isn't that it's "becoming one sided with information" IMO the problem lies in the fact that everything is so politicized and biased everything is taken to the extreme. Just like with everything else they need to get the blue and red out of the news and actually just report what's going on rather than pushing an agenda. As those consuming this information its our job to understand this and we have to accept that the truth lies somewhere in between what is being thrown at us.

I tend to see it differently than the sole reason to impeach Trump again for the sole purpose of making sure he can't win an election. Partially because I don't quite understand what impeachment really does. He was impeached once and nothing changed...now he could be the first president to be impeached a second time? So what? I guess I don't understand how the second one would be any different than his first one in which absolutely nothing happened. My honest opinion. Find a way to show strength and unity the last couple of days rather than removing him which could bring about additional violence and unrest in the upcoming weeks.

 

[Fryowa]

I don't see everything being "one sided with information". What I see is the media is one extreme or the other. CNN is anti-Trump and he can do no right. Fox is in bed with him and he can do no wrong.

Not anymore. They've divorced each other. OANN is Trump's new mistress.

Disclaimer: that is not an endorsement by me of any news source, including Fox. All (yes, all) current events media are either right or left-influenced pieces of shit and both smell equally of said shit. Politicians are all, 100%, in totality, without exception garbage human beings who would do society a favor by jumping in front of buses. Call it hyperbole if you want, I don't care.

So now that that's out of the way, I was just clarifying that Fox and Trump don't like each other anymore.

 

[kicker22]

Not anymore. They've divorced each other. OANN is Trump's new mistress.

Disclaimer: that is not an endorsement by me of any news source, including Fox. All (yes, all) current events media are either right or left-influenced pieces of shit and both smell equally of said shit. Politicians are all, 100%, in totality, without exception garbage human beings who would do society a favor by jumping in front of buses. Call it hyperbole if you want, I don't care.

So now that that's out of the way, I was just clarifying that Fox and Trump don't like each other anymore.

Had no idea thanks for the enlightenment. Totally agree with your angle though.

 

[okeefe4prez]

All (yes, all) current events media are either right or left-influenced pieces of shit and both smell equally of said shit.

What I think has incrementally taken hold in the US media is the extreme utilization of farcical fear-based propaganda to drive an agenda. I think on some level it has always been there, but with 24 hour news, talk radio and social media it can be in your face 24/7/365 if you let it. The problem is the average American is too dumb to realize when they have been grasped by news sources that confirm their biases. The "other side" is maybe 1/1000th as bad as the doomsdayers peddling "news" claim they are.

"Orange Man's gonna start a war. Orange Man's an authoritarian. Biden's a communist." Blah blah blah. Orange Man is a shitty authoritarian if he let people make localized decisions on The Germ because that was a clean slate for any level of draconian measures he wanted. Biden's not a fucking communist, the guy is in the pocket of damned near every big company in America. Yet there are millions upon millions of idiots who believe this shit. It's unreal.

 

[PCHawk]

I don't see everything being "one sided with information". What I see is the media is one extreme or the other. CNN is anti-Trump and he can do no right. Fox is in bed with him and he can do no wrong. The problem in my opinion isn't that it's "becoming one sided with information" IMO the problem lies in the fact that everything is so politicized and biased everything is taken to the extreme. Just like with everything else they need to get the blue and red out of the news and actually just report what's going on rather than pushing an agenda. As those consuming this information its our job to understand this and we have to accept that the truth lies somewhere in between what is being thrown at us.

I tend to see it differently than the sole reason to impeach Trump again for the sole purpose of making sure he can't win an election. Partially because I don't quite understand what impeachment really does. He was impeached once and nothing changed...now he could be the first president to be impeached a second time? So what? I guess I don't understand how the second one would be any different than his first one in which absolutely nothing happened. My honest opinion. Find a way to show strength and unity the last couple of days rather than removing him which could bring about additional violence and unrest in the upcoming weeks.

The reason nothing happened with impeachment last time (or with Clinton) is because it got rejected by the senate. If the senate votes on it this time, something will happen. And they've come right out and said the reason to do it is so he can't hold office again. Meaning they want it to be their decision, not the voters.

And fox news has been the only conservative major news outlet for as long as I've known and they've flopped now too. One example of a conservative news outlet isn't enough to say mainstream media isn't extremely one sided.

 

[PCHawk]

Anyone seen the videos going around with a bunch of dems inciting violence during BLM riots? I'm not sure how these people get away with acting like its crazy what Trump said when they are on video openly calling for far worse.

Anyone remember all the riots when Trump got elected? Were those people inspired by all the dems calling collusion? Is the statue of limitations up for impeaching Pelosi? I'm ok with that trade. Trump and Pelosi never get to run for office again.

 

[kicker22]

Anyone seen the videos going around with a bunch of dems inciting violence during BLM riots? I'm not sure how these people get away with acting like its crazy what Trump said when they are on video openly calling for far worse.

Anyone remember all the riots when Trump got elected? Were those people inspired by all the dems calling collusion? Is the statue of limitations up for impeaching Pelosi? I'm ok with that trade. Trump and Pelosi never get to run for office again.

No argument about the dems inciting violence during BLM. I haven't seen the videos (haven't looked either so not arguing by any means that they're out there), but if that's the case then I agree they should be equally held accountable. But if were making the BLM comparison with the Capitol Hill riots then wouldn't it be fair to also point out how they were handled by our commander in chief? I tend to recall a military presence during the BLM riots and us of the national guard. I think the national guard and military involvement weren't a top priority last week like they had been in the past. Would the dems be able to use the same valid excuse used by Guiliani that "trial by combat" was nothing more than a Game of Thrones reference or Trump's comments that it was "totally appropriate"?

Dems or republicans, regardless of how much political clout they have or what position in the government they hold, have great influence on people. These are politicians that have taken an oath to uphold the law and to lead this great nation, and know that what they say doesn't fall on deaf ears. They know exactly how their words are going to be perceived and make careers out of choosing what words they will use and how those words will impact those their followers. It's not ok for democrats or republicans, they should all be held accountable. But In my opinion, I don't see how as a nation we can afford to let things go by looking the other way and taking a "they did it so it's ok for me to do it" approach.

Do I blame Trump and Guiliani for inciting a riot. Absolutely. Do I think the dems in the video you referenced should be held accountable for their actions. Absolutely. Regardless of political affiliation as a society, I don't see how we can let shit like this go on, and expect our nation to heal and get back to being a great nation. We have to raise the bar and expect/demand more out of those that are representing us.

Trump and Pelosi never getting to run for office again might be the first thing we've really agreed upon politically lol

 

[HuckFinn]

This will piss some of you off. So be it. First, media outlets like CNN label their stories as follows...Opinion, Analysis, News. Fox does not distinguish, but the same concept is followed. I would suggest that the labels are clear. So, if you don’t like opinions, don’t read them. Look carefully at “analysis.” Often some good information. Get to know the sources. News typically revolves around direct quotes, legal decisions, documented facts. Just because you don’t like these resources does not make them biased.
In short, learn to read.

Ever tune into NPR, which is publicly funded? How about BBC? Ever use fact check devices? There are many sources for you to explore.

So, Stop blaming the media for being biased and pursue literacy. Yeah, participating in a democracy is a lot of work.

Right now we have two strong forces at work. First, during the past 4 years, especially, we have been told repeatedly that the media is the enemy of the people, biased, and predominantly liberal or conservative. That is not “news” it is opinion. Sometimes “analysis” sneaks in. Secondly, media prior to Reagan was required to broadcast equal time in the political arena. Time to bring that back into play.

Finally, I would suggest that if you really believe that the media is inaccurate, biased, untrustworthy, then where might you go for information? Or, you can just scream “the media cannot be trusted!” The result would be that you have surrendered. Go live in your basement.

 

[kicker22]

So to move away from opinion, can someone explain what impeachment really means? Would it basically be fair to compare it to indictment (to an extent) where it's felt that he violated the terms of his position and is then tried in the Senate? So really for it to mean anything other than an asterisks the 2/3 vote would be needed by the Senate after the hearing in needed. Fairly close?

 

[HuckFinn]

So to move away from opinion, can someone explain what impeachment really means? Would it basically be fair to compare it to indictment (to an extent) where it's felt that he violated the terms of his position and is then tried in the Senate? So really for it to mean anything other than an asterisks the 2/3 vote would be needed by the Senate after the hearing in needed. Fairly close?

I would agree.

 

[PCHawk]

No argument about the dems inciting violence during BLM. I haven't seen the videos (haven't looked either so not arguing by any means that they're out there), but if that's the case then I agree they should be equally held accountable. But if were making the BLM comparison with the Capitol Hill riots then wouldn't it be fair to also point out how they were handled by our commander in chief? I tend to recall a military presence during the BLM riots and us of the national guard. I think the national guard and military involvement weren't a top priority last week like they had been in the past. Would the dems be able to use the same valid excuse used by Guiliani that "trial by combat" was nothing more than a Game of Thrones reference or Trump's comments that it was "totally appropriate"?

Dems or republicans, regardless of how much political clout they have or what position in the government they hold, have great influence on people. These are politicians that have taken an oath to uphold the law and to lead this great nation, and know that what they say doesn't fall on deaf ears. They know exactly how their words are going to be perceived and make careers out of choosing what words they will use and how those words will impact those their followers. It's not ok for democrats or republicans, they should all be held accountable. But In my opinion, I don't see how as a nation we can afford to let things go by looking the other way and taking a "they did it so it's ok for me to do it" approach.

Do I blame Trump and Guiliani for inciting a riot. Absolutely. Do I think the dems in the video you referenced should be held accountable for their actions. Absolutely. Regardless of political affiliation as a society, I don't see how we can let shit like this go on, and expect our nation to heal and get back to being a great nation. We have to raise the bar and expect/demand more out of those that are representing us.

Trump and Pelosi never getting to run for office again might be the first thing we've really agreed upon politically lol

The military being at blm protests is easy to explain. They went on for months and proved over and over that they turned violent. It also helped that they let everyone know on advance where they were going to be. As the months went on, it became a thing to make sure you know where they were going to be and get ready. They didn't have that luxury at Capital Hill.

As far as being held responsible for inciting violence goes, to me there is a pretty easy distinction between actually calling for people to get violent (you should be held accountable) and you saying something that could lead someone to infer that you want violence (I dont think you should be held accountable) I think Trump falls in the latter without a doubt. Mostly because he straight up said they need to make their voices heard peacefully. In my mind, that comment alone should save him here.

The way this 2 party system is set up, there is no way for this country to come together. When one party's success is directly tied to the other party's failures, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that the party not in power is going to spend an entire for years dragging the party in powers name through the mud. 8ts always been this way with smear campaigns during election years. But now with social media its non stop all year every year, and it's only going to get worse. This time it gave us the "worst president ever" and 2 impeachment, along with calling half the country racist. Republicans have no choice but to go harder these next 4 years or be left behind.

 

[PCHawk]

Another thing that is important to remember is democrats did the exact same thing 4 years ago as we are seeing now. Right away they said there was election fraud and wouldn't accept the results. Then there was protests and rioting on inauguration day. So far, republicans are following suit to a tee. The only question left is will they spend the next 4 years trying to sabatoge the Biden campaign. I have to assume they will.