Poll: Is KF helping or hurting his legacy?

[4thngoal]

Now do you want to hear the best part?
Say we win the NT this year.
Great accomplishment by Fry, Kf, all the coaches and staff, the players and smart move by Barta on the contracts.
You just never know.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I do hear a lot of this now. Maybe I just missed it at the time but I don't remember anybody being upset about losing Davis for Alford prior to Alford's 3rd season.

Myself honestly I was on the fence at the time. I thought Iowa had plateaued and was hopeful new blood could energize the program and spring board them to the next level (Alford was as hot as an up and coming coach could be we just had to get him before Indiana...) Yet I was also not happy about Bowlsby hanging Davis out to dry like that which I thought might not be a good thing (remember that was prior to the hiring of Alford) It felt like chickens being counted before they were hatched.
I think there were more folks that were fired up about moving on but I do remember there being some not so much. Again I can't throw a ratio to it but it wasn't 90/10 or anything that drastic.

 

[MiniMoeHawk]

He hasn’t covered up any major issues like Penn State or Michigan State. A long, clean tenure only helps his legacy.

 

[Northside Hawk]

It's crazy how "bad" people think things were when KF started.

………..(rec.... bowl)
…….…….IA……….….…….….…….OU​

'93…….6-6... L Alamo………...…..9-3... W Hancock.. #14
'94…….5-5-1……….…….…….…..…6-6.. L Copper
'95…….8-4... W Sun...... #22.......5-5-1
'96…….9-3... W Alamo.. #18.......3-8
'97…….7-5... L Sun…...….…….…..4-8
'98…….3-8…….….…….…...….…....5-6
……. KF…….…….….…….…………..BS

'99…….1-10…….…….….……...…...7-5.. L Independence
'00...…..3-9...............……..........….13-0.. Natl Champs!

So:
1) the "bad" KF inherited was 2 straight non top-25 seasons & 1 non-bowl season
2) OU obviously had a tradition Iowa didn't, but Stoops didn't choose them over Iowa because of more recent success
3) damn that was a helluva turnaround by BS!​

Wow I had forgotten how bad Oklahoma tanked post Switzer. I'm sure McCarney and Snyder were administering some of those whippings.

 

[Hawk90]

Something not mentioned above, Hayden didn't have to deal with a great Wisconsin program until the 90s' , I think that it has made a difference in KF's success, or lack of success. It is damn near impossible for both Iowa and Wisconsin to be really, really good at the same time (Top 10). No Alvarez at Wisconsin, maybe HF stays around a few more years. No Alvarez, Ferentz dominates the B1G pre-Meyer. My two cents.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Something not mentioned above, Hayden didn't have to deal with a great Wisconsin program until the 90s' , I think that it has made a difference in KF's success, or lack of success. It is damn near impossible for both Iowa and Wisconsin to be really, really good at the same time (Top 10). No Alvarez at Wisconsin, maybe HF stays around a few more years. No Alvarez, Ferentz dominates the B1G pre-Meyer. My two cents.

This is true. But Illinois evens it out. They were a solid program for a good chunk of the Fry era. Not so much during the Ferentz tenure with a brief exception during the Juice Williams years.

Not having the data in front of me I would guess that Kirk's head to head record against Illinois is right up there with any of his other conference head to heads.

 

[HawkGold]

I don't think so. I guess my take on that is did Frys last few years hurt his? He left Iowa in a bad bad spot at the time. It's partially why Stoops chose OU and we ended up with a nobody at the time in KF to begin with. I can't say I've ever heard anyone speak ill of him for that really. It's all rainbows and Rose Bowls when talking about Frys legacy. So all things being equal the same applying for KF I don't see his legacy getting tarnished in any way with mediocre years down the stretch if that's what ends up happening.

We've been over this many times. How did Fry lwave Iowa at a bad spot. Last 2 classes if recruitibg were damn good.

 

[peerok]

Its worth mentioning that the Big Ten was possibly as strong as it ever was in KF first two years at Iowa. In 1999 the final AP poll had 7 big ten teams ranked with 4 in the top 11. In 2000, 5 big ten teams plus Iowa St ended up ranked
So I'm not sure Fry or Stoops would have done much better with Iowa's roster in KF' first two years.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

We've been over this many times. How did Fry lwave Iowa at a bad spot. Last 2 classes if recruitibg were damn good.

Well Iowa was 3-8 Frys last yr correct? The next two seasons after he left KF had 4 wins combined...
I guess I'm confused by what your getting at. Are you saying Frys last two recruiting classes were 'damn good' or are you being sarcastic? You can't argue the 2 or 3 classes Fry had that helped result in the 3-8, 1-10 and 3-8 seasons were damn good can you?

I assume what your getting at is that the last class Fry had would have been seniors during KFs first 11-2 season. I'd be curious to know how many of those kids were there and key contributors from that. If anyone could dig up that sort of info I'd love it.

 

[HawkGold]

Well Iowa was 3-8 Frys last yr correct? The next two seasons after he left KF had 4 wins combined...
I guess I'm confused by what your getting at. Are you saying Frys last two recruiting classes were 'damn good' or are you being sarcastic? You can't argue the 2 or 3 classes Fry had that helped result in the 3-8, 1-10 and 3-8 seasons were damn good can you?

I assume what your getting at is that the last class Fry had would have been seniors during KFs first 11-2 season. I'd be curious to know how many of those kids were there and key contributors from that. If anyone could dig up that sort of info I'd love it.

No sarcasm.

KF's Main HC record:;
Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Coaches# AP°
Maine Black Bears (Yankee Conference) (1990–1992)
1990 Maine 3–8 2–6 T–7th
1991 Maine 3–8 2–6 T–7th
1992 Maine 6–5 4–4 T–5th
Maine: 12–21 8–16

If you watch video they were amazingly like watching Iowa with different uniforms.

1998 http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-02-04/sports/9802040036_1_iowa-fry-southern-illinois

K Hill was 97.

 

[hawkeyes87]

I assume what your getting at is that the last class Fry had would have been seniors during KFs first 11-2 season. I'd be curious to know how many of those kids were there and key contributors from that. If anyone could dig up that sort of info I'd love it.

These guys were all on KF's first roster at Iowa (with their draft round):

Seniors on 2001 Team (7-5, "the Hawks are back!")
Ladell Betts....2
Aaron Kampman...5

'02 team (11-2, #8)
Dallas Clark....1
Eric Steinbach...2
Bruce Nelson...2

'03 team (10-3, #8)
Robert Gallery...1

 

[hawkeyes87]

Something not mentioned above, Hayden didn't have to deal with a great Wisconsin program until the 90s' , I think that it has made a difference in KF's success, or lack of success. It is damn near impossible for both Iowa and Wisconsin to be really, really good at the same time (Top 10).

Yeah, all conferences see fluctuations. There are only so many wins to go around.

When USC slipped, Oregon / Stanford rose up.

Nebraska slipped, K State rose.

SEC-East slipped, West rose.

In the Big Ten / B1G, I'd add Michigan to those you guys have mentioned. They've been very inconsistent, especially since Lloyd left.

 

[AreWeThereYet]

This is true. But Illinois evens it out. They were a solid program for a good chunk of the Fry era. Not so much during the Ferentz tenure with a brief exception during the Juice Williams years.

Not having the data in front of me I would guess that Kirk's head to head record against Illinois is right up there with any of his other conference head to heads.

Illinois had a couple of decent years under coach Ron Turner, 1999 at 8-4 and 2001 at 10-2 and a Big Ten championship. They lost the Sugar Bowl to LSU. They were led by quarterback Kurt Kittner and a good defense. They tanked after Kittner graduated.

 

[guffus]

Illinois had a couple of decent years under coach Ron Turner, 1999 at 8-4 and 2001 at 10-2 and a Big Ten championship. They lost the Sugar Bowl to LSU. They were led by quarterback Kurt Kittner and a good defense. They tanked after Kittner graduated.

This probably would have been true but because of regular rotations and then expansion Iowa did not play Illinois for 5 straight years from 2009 to 2013. Ferentz missed a golden opportunity there. Imagine how different 2009 and 2010 would have been if Iowa would have skipped playing OSU instead of Illinois.

 

[HawkGold]

This probably would have been true but because of regular rotations and then expansion Iowa did not play Illinois for 5 straight years from 2009 to 2013. Ferentz missed a golden opportunity there. Imagine how different 2009 and 2010 would have been if Iowa would have skipped playing OSU instead of Illinois.

Turner had about the same credentials as KF heading in. Interesting note, there were over 20 players on NFL rosters who were under Turner at IL in 2007.

He got players to the NFL.

 

[hawkeyes87]

So far 22 of you have voted, but only 7 have commented with a how / why you voted.

What do the rest of you say?

I'd especially like to hear some of the thoughts behind "Neither". I didn't expect that to be the big winner.

 

[InGoodCo]

I voted helping mainly because in 15 he coached Iowa to the greatest regular season in school history. Dunno if you're gonna see many 12-0's in our lifetime, but I feel like he has 1 great season left in the tank.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Illinois had a couple of decent years under coach Ron Turner, 1999 at 8-4 and 2001 at 10-2 and a Big Ten championship. They lost the Sugar Bowl to LSU. They were led by quarterback Kurt Kittner and a good defense. They tanked after Kittner graduated.

Didn't realize the Kittner era was under the watch of Ferentz not Fry. I'll be damned!

 

[hawkeyes87]

Didn't realize the Kittner era was under the watch of Ferentz not Fry. I'll be damned!

But, in the 80's, both Mike White & John Mackovic took them to 10 win, Top-10 seasons.

 

[Motigerhawk]

I voted neither. His legacy is established. He is a good coach that will win you 7.5 games a year. Keep the program mostly free of negative press. Fund raise really well.

That is his legacy. What is he going to do different in the next few seasons?
Things that will enhance or hurt? If he wins a NC, enhance. If he loses 12 games, hurt. If a few guys go on a sexual assault rampage that opens up a can of worms about cover ups and what not, hurt.

I just dont see any of those things happening. We will win 7-10 games the next few seasons. Have some guys drafted. Wash, rinse, repeat.