Peter Jok Is The Newest Hawkeye

hawkfarmer said:
I'm not sure if you've been under a rock for the last year, but last year he was playing injured, he is recovering, and though he isn't what he was pre-injury he's alot closer now than he was last year. Also, judge it more on high AAU performances which, though was inconsistent he showed flashes.
By your assertion he has not improved an ounce in health or game in the past year.
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Did you even read my post? You literally echoed everything I wrote. My assertion was not that he hasn't improved. My assertion was that he is in the process of healing, and that it is impossible to predict the degree to which he will recover. The fact that people are disagreeing with this assertion is confusing to me.

Also let me clarify, in order to alleviate your apparent confusion, that I have never stated that I think he won't make a full recovery. I've said that I am very, very excited to see what he's able to do, but that his recovery is unpredictable. That's all.
 
ssckelley said:
Wundergrape, I get that but what better options did we have with that scholarship? I do not think Fran is relying on him to be that NBA superstar the he was once projected to be. Jok has a very high ceiling and if any of those early projections pan out then the Hawks got themselves one heck of a player. Worst case scenario is Iowa got a contributing player on a team that already has a handful of other players with really high ceilings. I think the 2014 recruiting class is going to be more important to the long term success of Iowa as that is when Marble, Basabe, and McCabe graduate.
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We didn't have a better option with that scholarship. Peter Jok is a fantastic signing and I'm incredibly excited about him. I'm just saying he's high-risk/high-reward, and I stand by that.

Somehow you all assumed I'm a Jok hater because of my risk/reward post. I'm not at all. I'm just saying that we don't know how well he's going to recover from his knee injury. It doesn't make this a bad signing. I'm pumped about Jok.
 
wundergrape said:
We didn't have a better option with that scholarship. Peter Jok is a fantastic signing and I'm incredibly excited about him. I'm just saying he's high-risk/high-reward, and I stand by that.

Somehow you all assumed I'm a Jok hater because of my risk/reward post. I'm not at all. I'm just saying that we don't know how well he's going to recover from his knee injury. It doesn't make this a bad signing. I'm pumped about Jok.
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I hear what you are saying wunder, and I know you are excited about Jok. It just seems many people find the signing to be low risk/high reward and that is all most are disagreeing on. Either way we are all pulling for Jok to be a good one since he as committed to the Hawks!!!!
 
wundergrape said:
Did you even read my post? You literally echoed everything I wrote. My assertion was not that he hasn't improved. My assertion was that he is in the process of healing, and that it is impossible to predict the degree to which he will recover. The fact that people are disagreeing with this assertion is confusing to me.

Also let me clarify, in order to alleviate your apparent confusion, that I have never stated that I think he won't make a full recovery. I've said that I am very, very excited to see what he's able to do, but that his recovery is unpredictable. That's all.
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I think you confused yourself. You said in your first paragraph that you think this is high risk, I don't, I think it is low risk, then you talk about his numbers dropping, and then you say what if this is his ceiling post recovery, though he wasn't recovered at all last year. So you can see why I might think you don't think this is a good signing. This is what I'm disagreeing with, especially since you quote people that saw him a whole year ago, but reports the last few months are that he is doing much better.
 
hawkfarmer said:
I think you confused yourself. You said in your first paragraph that you think this is high risk, I don't, I think it is low risk, then you talk about his numbers dropping, and then you say what if this is his ceiling post recovery, though he wasn't recovered at all last year. So you can see why I might think you don't think this is a good signing. This is what I'm disagreeing with, especially since you quote people that saw him a whole year ago, but reports the last few months are that he is doing much better.
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I'm not confusing myself at all. There were three paragraphs in my post. In the second I discussed how Fran obviously saw some improvement in Jok. In the third I talked about how Jok could turn into an "absolute star." My statements were consistent and clear. Someone was confused. It wasn't me.
 
wundergrape said:
I'm not confusing myself at all. There were three paragraphs in my post. In the second I discussed how Fran obviously saw some improvement in Jok. In the third I talked about how Jok could turn into an "absolute star." My statements were consistent and clear. Someone was confused. It wasn't me.
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haha, ok.
 
wundergrape said:
I believe it is high risk because Peter has not shown to what degree he will recover from his patellar tendon tear. He only averaged 10.2 points as a junior, after averaging 19 as a sophomore, and his national presence flat-lined. What if this is the ceiling of his recovery? Many who saw him play last year report a player who is athletically not able to perform near his previous level.

As many have stated, Fran must have seen something in his game to indicate that he will be able to be a contributor. But as far as expecting this young man to be worthy of our sole scholarship for '13...it's high risk.

However, if he is able to make a full recovery, look out. I think we all see in the video that if his athleticism returns and his body holds up, he could be an absolute star. That's high reward.
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The highlighted in not consistent with your enthusiasm. I'm not saying your are wavering in inconsistency, but I don't get why you are using what people thought from over a year ago, when there are thoughts on why that happened, another injury, and plenty of evaluations from this summer and fall. I'm saying you are inconsistent, maybe uninformed is better, to use information from last season when it has been noted, often, that he has improved greatly from that point and his health is better and continues to improve, that's what I don't get from your posts.
 
So, I'm supposed to ignore facts just to let you know how excited I am? I tell you that in the 3rd paragraph!

Those are facts that I used to pose a rhetorical argument which is inherent to the debate regarding the level of risk embedded in his commitment. It's called a baseline: the most recent data that we have are his HS stats, his AAU performances and his most recent video which I've seen multiple times. These data points indicate a risky proposition: he doesn't look like a high-major player in any of our samples (HS stats, AAU and the 9/18/12 video).

Apparently you are far more informed than I am. From where do you form your opinion? Have you seen him play against top-flight competition in the past six months? If not, you're making the same high-risk assumptions I am: our most recent information indicates he's not fully recovered, yet we're both excited as hell. Nothing wrong with that, hawkfarmer.
 
I guess you see the reports as not improving. I see them as he is improving but not 100% yet. To me that makes it less high risk. Some say he has been inconsistent against to talent but shows flashes. To me that is better than what I heard from his last high school season which was not good at all. So what you see as high risk, I see as improvement in health and performance and only expect it to continue to get better. I thought his video showed some good athleticism and fluidity and good form. I don't think his hops are back yet, but I think it will get there. I guess I just processed the available info a little more optimistically.
 
hawkfarmer said:
I guess you see the reports as not improving. I see them as he is improving but not 100% yet. To me that makes it less high risk. Some say he has been inconsistent against to talent but shows flashes. To me that is better than what I heard from his last high school season which was not good at all. So what you see as high risk, I see as improvement in health and performance and only expect it to continue to get better. I thought his video showed some good athleticism and fluidity and good form. I don't think his hops are back yet, but I think it will get there. I guess I just processed the available info a little more optimistically.
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Fair enough. I do agree with your statement that he is improving, but not 100%. However, this kid could be a world-beater. I'm talking an All-American...if he gets back to where he was. That, to me is still very much in the air. And I do understand your statement that you think he's low risk because he has gotten to the point that he'll be a contributor regardless of his improvement arc. But, when you're trying to build a championship team, you don't want to hand out schollies at your position of highest need on a "contributor." You want a star.

We won't win a Big Ten championship with a Glen Worley or Justin Johnson ("contributor" type of guys) as our starting #3. To me, that's a high-risk. We've known for a while that if we want to win a championship, we need to surround Gessel, White, Uthoff and Woodbury with a killer swingman. If Jok merely contributes, we could be 22-8 (high risk). If he is an All-American, we could win the National Championship his sophomore or junior year (high reward).
 
wundergrape said:
Fair enough. I do agree with your statement that he is improving, but not 100%. However, this kid could be a world-beater. I'm talking an All-American...if he gets back to where he was. That, to me is still very much in the air. And I do understand your statement that you think he's low risk because he has gotten to the point that he'll be a contributor regardless of his improvement arc. But, when you're trying to build a championship team, you don't want to hand out schollies at your position of highest need on a "contributor." You want a star.

We won't win a Big Ten championship with a Glen Worley or Justin Johnson ("contributor" type of guys) as our starting #3. To me, that's a high-risk. We've known for a while that if we want to win a championship, we need to surround Gessel, White, Uthoff and Woodbury with a killer swingman. If Jok merely contributes, we could be 22-8 (high risk). If he is an All-American, we could win the National Championship his sophomore or junior year (high reward).
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Well if you're thinking that level maybe, I wasn't going there, but I think he's already better than Johnson and I think he will be better than Worley. If he continues to improve he could be an all american I guess. I don't know. However, I still don't think he's high risk, because of the other options Iowa had, say Matthews, I don't think he would've taken Iowa to the level you think is possible. He couldn't shoot. Also for a single player class, I don't think he's the player that can necessarily take them to the top if you will. I don't know, but it will be interesting to see how it pans out. You have some high expectations for him and this squad, that I was not expecting.
 
hawkfarmer said:
Well if you're thinking that level maybe, I wasn't going there, but I think he's already better than Johnson and I think he will be better than Worley. If he continues to improve he could be an all american I guess. I don't know. However, I still don't think he's high risk, because of the other options Iowa had, say Matthews, I don't think he would've taken Iowa to the level you think is possible. He couldn't shoot. Also for a single player class, I don't think he's the player that can necessarily take them to the top if you will. I don't know, but it will be interesting to see how it pans out. You have some high expectations for him and this squad, that I was not expecting.
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It sounds more like high hopes rather then high expectations. What he says sounds about right to me. If he does somehow reach his ceiling, he will be one of the best players in his class which will make us one of the best teams in the nation. That's a big if tho. The one thing I don't agree with what he said is the high risk part. His worst case scenario is only a little worse then the next best player we can bring in. It's not like we took him over a different future all american. To me that makes him low risk high reward.
 
PCHawk said:
It sounds more like high hopes rather then high expectations. What he says sounds about right to me. If he does somehow reach his ceiling, he will be one of the best players in his class which will make us one of the best teams in the nation. That's a big if tho. The one thing I don't agree with what he said is the high risk part. His worst case scenario is only a little worse then the next best player we can bring in. It's not like we took him over a different future all american. To me that makes him low risk high reward.
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We have one scholarship available and one huge roster hole. Whoever takes that spot will be surrounded by as much talent as we've had in Iowa City in 25 years. This recruit, at this position, could very well make or break our chances to win a conference title, go to a sweet sixteen or more. If you think bringing in a guy who is recovering from patellar surgery isn't a high risk, then I don't know what to say.
 
wundergrape said:
We have one scholarship available and one huge roster hole. Whoever takes that spot will be surrounded by as much talent as we've had in Iowa City in 25 years. This recruit, at this position, could very well make or break our chances to win a conference title, go to a sweet sixteen or more. If you think bringing in a guy who is recovering from patellar surgery isn't a high risk, then I don't know what to say.
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I'm only saying it's not high risk because where he is at now sounds like it's about the same as any other recruit we have a chance to bring in. If one of our other options is only slightly better then Jok is now, then how is it high risk to take the guy whose floor is only a little lower? Maybe i'm wrong but it sounds like Jok right now is comparable to anyone else we were looking at with a chance to be way better.
 
PCHawk said:
I'm only saying it's not high risk because where he is at now sounds like it's about the same as any other recruit we have a chance to bring in. If one of our other options is only slightly better then Jok is now, then how is it high risk to take the guy whose floor is only a little lower? Maybe i'm wrong but it sounds like Jok right now is comparable to anyone else we were looking at with a chance to be way better.
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I see your point, and it's a good one. That said, it's only September. Fran still has time to go try and work one of the many guys who aren't yet committed. Instead, he went all in on Jok. To me, that's a sizeable risk - but you're right, if we had to pick from the three fish that we had on the line, the opportunity cost wasn't huge. At the end of the day, it's all semantics. We've got an exciting couple of years ahead of us.
 
What I like about today's rehab and medical studies is the success rate has gone up higher than several years ago when it was little to impossible to come back from knee injuries. Hospitals have done their homework and rehab clinics too. They have today brought back many highly rated athletes in all sports back to their dream and come out successful.

We have to truss that Jok went to the right doctors and physicians who have have helped him every step of the way. To continue to get him back to where he can be.

I also believe that Fran probably did his homework along the medical side of things and was given good enough reports that he wanted to evaluate Peter every step of the way and in do timing offer him.

Like it has been said you have to take risk to see if good results can come from it. The good news yes, we have enough talent to cover this scholorship if he dose not pan out.

I will pray that the kid recovers nicely and is able to perform to the talent that he first displayed.
 
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