Perspective

InGoodCo said:
Iowa Football is a great program with great coaches and a system that consistently wins more then it loses. Can't be argued.
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Great program?? Wow.

Iowa is a solid football program. Probably top 30 type in the country. Nothing to be ashamed of but in no way shape or form are we a great program.

Winning more games than you lose does not make you great in college football. You get 3 cream puffs every year so you better win more than you lose. This isn't the NFL.

We have not won a bowl game since 2010.

We have not won an outright conference championship since 1985. I could be wrong on that stat but if true, wow, how can you call that great?
 
I agree on the fact that Wisconsin has been the better program overall during the Ferentz era. However, what I am saying is that we run basically the same system. MSU is the same way. The challenges we face is that Madison is much more urban than Iowa City and about 4 times the size. And it is not far from Milwaukee, a major metropolitan area. To me that is the main difference to why they can attract better skill position talent than we can. We can't change the fact that we are at a recruiting disadvantage. Wisconsin has twice the people as Iowa, and Michigan is about 3 times, and they have Detroit. Wisconsin's roster has a national diversity to it among the skill positions, whereas we are still fairly regional, and that makes the difference. However, our offensive lines are mostly made up of local players. Basically Wisconsin is a better version of us, whereas we have an Akrum Wadley and they have 3 Akrum Wadley's. But they should, they have some advantages over us and they have a strong program with strong leadership. But we can still compete with them, and we do, and that is all we can ask.

At the end of the day, its all about the players at this level. A sorry system or sorry coach (see LSU) can take elite players and make them average or worse. However, a great system cannot make an average roster elite on a regular basis. There are always teams that come and go because they luck up into having some talent that they didn't expect at the same time, and some look great because their schedule lines up matchup wise, but none of those teams are consistent winners year in and year out.

In the Ferentz era, we have been national title contenders 3 times (02, 09, and 15). What is that, 1 out of every 6 years or so? How many other teams can say that? It just goes to show that a developed 2* guy can be just as good as an undeveloped 4 or 5* guy. But it takes us a long time to develop that guy rather than just reload with a new one. So considering all of the above, the question that begs to be answered is; is it good enough for us to have a championship caliber team every 5 years or so mixed with 7-5 and 8-4 records mixed in between? Or do we scrap all that for more consistency with the risk of losing our championship years? If we did get a Saban, like MSU, or LSU, or Miami Dolphins, how long before he leaves? Does that matter to people? To me it does, and we have at this time probably one of the most stable coaching situations in all of sports, with Ferentz going to pass the torch to his son where he may be for another long career. I am afraid that we are all a victim of our own success, that it breeds expectation. I will leave with this question though; how many here bargained to whatever higher power you believe in during the 2015 season that you would gladly trade future games to just win one more? and one more? I know I did and I never thought I would see an undefeated Iowa team in my lifetime. So maybe those chips are getting cashed in. All comes around right? Kind of like how Penn St. beat us, because wasn't that eerily similar to MSU in 09? Stuff to think about.
 
Who is the better fan - the guy who supports Iowa at all costs, and sees nothing but good intentions and potential despite the circumstances or, the the guy who is quick with the critique on the basis that as a fan, one should always strive for excellence/perfection and settle for nothing less? The answer - neither is the "better" fan. They're both fans with different perspectives. Not that this observation will ever stop one better fan from railing against the other better fan for not being a better fan. I do wonder though, does it ever get tiresome for the one better fan camp to blame and mock the other better fan camp? It's a rhetorical question.
 
Hawkeye23, I appreciate your analysis, and I do agree with you. I do think that the willingness or ability to adjust schemes hurts us at times and our coaches can be too predictable. You brought up a great point too, that Saban adjusts to his players. One year they have a pro style quarterback and the next they have a running quarterback and it has all been successful because they adjust their scheme to the player like they do now with Hurts. Granted, Alabama has more options to choose from than we do, but they do adjust. The one true running quarterback that we have had in the Fry/Ferentz era, Brad Banks, certainly brought a different dimension to our team and was the difference. CJ and Drew could run, but were not runners in my book, but their legs could get an extra first down or two a game, and that can be enough to be an advantage. Adjustments were made with Banks because he was so versatile. Now, as we have most years, have a pro style quarterback that cant run nor is he an elite passer. That makes our offense average. I think if we had Brad Banks show back up here you would see much more adjustment and more points on the board, but those guys for us are few and far between.
 
HawkGold said:
Why does a fan have to be positive when things aren't positive. I was a fan when things weren't well. My biggest complaint isn't wins and losses. My biggest complaint is sort of like this:

HF: We need to recruit Florida as we can't get the speed we need in Iowa or the Midwest overall.

KF: We can't recruit speed because we are Iowa.

HF made us sort of proud to be from Iowa.
KF acts embarrassed about being in Iowa.

HF made fans enter each game like there is a chance.
KF plays not to win.

I am a fan who misses the different mindset.

Iowa under HF scared the opponents no matter what the record
Iowa under KF scares opponents that they will be embarrassed by losing to Iowa (unless you are IL, MN, Purdue or IN).

That pretty much sums it.

My question in reverse. If you are a real fan how can you even be a fan accepting mediocrity. Note, Mediocrity is better than being bad. It's just not good.


More wins than losses doesn't mean much when those wins include FCS, Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, Wyoming this year, and NTSU. A winning record against MSU, Nebby, OSU, Mich, PSU, Maryland, MSU, Wisky (or even .500) would mean something. Granted if OSU, M, and PSU are on the schedule in a given year, that isn't so easy.

We struggled against very weak teams NC. Why would you expect to do so well in conference minus IL, IU, Purdue and Rutgers?

My first Hawkeye game was watching Iowa lose to a bad Illinois team in what I think was a 3 win season. I won two tickets on the WHO radio pick em contest. I was afraid I was going to get the radio or the weekend in MSPL. No one was more excited. Even back then it seemed Iowa was at least trying to win as opposed to trying not to lose.

I honestly don't know how a good fan can be so satisfied with what we've seen. Bowl games? Can we not get blown out repeatedly? That's not reasonable? The guy is a 20 year coach acting like he's trying to coach ISU as a developmental squad.

Wouldn't mind seeing a shoulder check.
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obvious Troll is obvious but I'll take a stab.


Iowa has recruited FL, they still do. I've never heard KF ever say "we don't want speed because we're Iowa"... he did back off FL for what, a nano second...because let's be honest, it can be a waste of resources and once they get here, they are not always happy....but the ones that have worked have worked well. Iowa has FL guys on the roster now... as we speak... to counter your claim

Please elaborate how KF acts embarrassed to be in Iowa. KF is a great ambassador for the state and university and has coached here for the large majority of his life. He's more Iowa then just about any other coach who's ever stepped on the campus of the U of I.

KF plays not to win? Do you realize how dumb that sounds? Here's a tidbit, HF had more losing seasons then Kirk has

Iowa beats a lot of good teams every single year, haven't heard about them being too embarrassed. Iowa has been one of the better P5 programs over the last 2 decades, aint NO ONE embarrassed to lose to Iowa.

I don't think Iowa fans are satisfied at all. I am not. I'm also not unrealistic or live my life in Rainbow Brite Land and just make up things that are false to try and prove a narrative that I am trying to push.
 
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homes said:
Who is the better fan - the guy who supports Iowa at all costs, and sees nothing but good intentions and potential despite the circumstances or, the the guy who is quick with the critique on the basis that as a fan, one should always strive for excellence/perfection and settle for nothing less? The answer - neither is the "better" fan. They're both fans with different perspectives. Not that this observation will ever stop one better fan from railing against the other better fan for not being a better fan. I do wonder though, does it ever get tiresome for the one better fan camp to blame and mock the other better fan camp? It's a rhetorical question.
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I DO support Iowa at all costs, because I am Iowa fan.... but I also see flaws, bitch about things I don't like and want to strive for excellence. I also know you have to be realistic with your expectations and Iowa is not as bad as what some of this place tries to label it after a loss.
 
InGoodCo said:
obvious Troll is obvious but I'll take a stab.


Iowa has recruited FL, they still do. I've never heard KF ever say "we don't want speed because we're Iowa"... he did back off FL for what, a nano second...because let's be honest, it can be a waste of resources and once they get here, they are not always happy....but the ones that have worked have worked well. Iowa has FL guys on the roster now... as we speak... to counter your claim

Please elaborate how KF acts embarrassed to be in Iowa. KF is a great ambassador for the state and university and has coached here for the large majority of his life. He's more Iowa then just about other coach who's ever stepped on the campus of the U of I.

KF plays not to win? Do you realize how dumb that sounds? Here's a tidbit, HF had more losing seasons then Kirk has

Iowa beats a lot of good teams every single year, haven't heard about them being too embarrassed. Iowa has been one of the better P5 programs over the last 2 decades, aint NO ONE embarrassed to lose to Iowa.

I don't think Iowa fans are satisfied at all. I am not. I'm also not unrealistic or live my life in Rainbow Brite Land and just make up things that are false to try and prove a narrative that I am trying to push.
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If you can't see the difference between HF and KF and how they presented themselves...there is no point of discussion. Bringing up the Troll word...ridiculous, but whatever. The wins, winning season thing is pointless. You didn't really address what I said.

The bottom line is you are perfectly comfortable and that's OK. Some of us are not. What I give to go back to the 80s when Iowa and IL took turns crushing each other and still had good teams. Now it's not play for the crush or risk getting crushed for the sake of so-so. I do disagree about the respect this program has among national personalities. Illinois sports reports do respect Iowa very much...now.
 
HawkGold said:
If you can't see the difference between HF and KF and how they presented themselves...there is no point of discussion. Bringing up the Troll word...ridiculous, but whatever. The wins, winning season thing is pointless. You didn't really address what I said.

The bottom line is you are perfectly comfortable and that's OK. Some of us are not. What I give to go back to the 80s when Iowa and IL took turns crushing each other and still had good teams. Now it's not play for the crush or risk getting crushed for the sake of so-so. I do disagree about the respect this program has among national personalities. Illinois sports reports do respect Iowa very much...now.
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i addressed every point you made... you just made bad points. HF and KF are definitely different at presenting themselves. No argument, I don't think you even mentioned that in your prior post. I just didn't get ANY of what you were saying. Saying KF doesn't want to recruit speed or FL? Saying he acts embarrassed to be from Iowa? That he coaches not to win? I literally addressed everything you said.

We don't agree, and that's fine. That's your right to have your opinion as do I. I will just speak up when I read things like that. Nothing against you, it just boggles my mind to read that people actually think that kind of stuff.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Since KF started at Iowa we are 82-65 (55.7%) in B1G play. That's what you call average.
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Ok... that's not what I said, but ok. I can feel that kind of take... I can get behind that. IMO - Iowa has been just above average in the B1G since KF has been here. U know that put's Iowa basically as one of the better teams the last 2 decades in the conference right? There are worst things then being average, ask around to other programs.

1999 - finished 11th - out of 11 teams... way below average
2000 - finished 8th out of 11 teams - below average
2001 finished 4th out of 11 teams - above average.
2002 finished 1st out of 11 teams - above average
2003 finished 4th out of 11 teams - above average
2004 finished 1st out of 11 teams - above average
2005 finished 3rd out of 11 teams - above average
2006 finished 8th out of 11 teams - below average
2007 finished 5th out of 11 teams - average
2008 finished 4th out of 11 teams - above average
2009 finished 2nd out of 11 teams - above average
2010 finished 4th out of 11 teams - above average
2011 finished 4th out of 7 teams in the Legends - average
2012 finished 6th out of 7 teams in the Legends - below average
2013 finished 4th out of 7 teams in the Legends - below average
2014 finished 4th out of 7 teams in the West - average
2015 finished 1st out of 7 teams in the West - above average
2016 finished 2nd out of 7 teams in the West - above average

 
InGoodCo said:
Ok... that's not what I said, but ok. I can feel that kind of take... I can get behind that. IMO - Iowa has been just above average in the B1G since KF has been here. U know that put's Iowa basically as one of the better teams the last 2 decades in the conference right? There are worst things then being average, ask around to other programs.

1999 - finished 11th - out of 11 teams... way below average
2000 - finished 8th out of 11 teams - below average
2001 finished 4th out of 11 teams - above average.
2002 finished 1st out of 11 teams - above average
2003 finished 4th out of 11 teams - above average
2004 finished 1st out of 11 teams - above average
2005 finished 3rd out of 11 teams - above average
2006 finished 8th out of 11 teams - below average
2007 finished 5th out of 11 teams - average
2008 finished 4th out of 11 teams - above average
2009 finished 2nd out of 11 teams - above average
2010 finished 4th out of 11 teams - above average
2011 finished 4th out of 7 teams in the Legends - average
2012 finished 6th out of 7 teams in the Legends - below average
2013 finished 4th out of 7 teams in the Legends - below average
2014 finished 4th out of 7 teams in the West - average
2015 finished 1st out of 7 teams in the West - above average
2016 finished 2nd out of 7 teams in the West - above average
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Totally agree, it could be worse. But at the end of the day average is average, it is not great.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Totally agree, it could be worse. But at the end of the day average is average, it is not great.
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I'd say just above average, not a lot, but just above it. You're right tho, I'll recant on calling it "great" and instead say - an above average B1G program. But we're arguing the semantics of words at this point.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Since KF started at Iowa we are 82-65 (55.7%) in B1G play. That's what you call average.
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Numbers don't lie. However, since 2000 (I eliminated 1999 because it was his first year and none of the players were his), Iowa is 60%. Teams we compare ourselves to, Wisconsin is at 62.7% and MSU is at 52.5% (I didn't dive into Penn State's record in that time period, but in general, you could put them in this discussion based on their overall record in that same time period).

Since 2010 (somewhat arbitrary), Iowa's win percentage is 57%, Wisconsin's is 75% and MSU's is 70%. Over nearly all of Ferentz's time at Iowa, the Iowa program is at about the same level as Wisconsin and MSU (and Penn State?). However, in the last 7 years, Wisconsin and MSU have moved past Iowa. That's why it can be frustrating - teams that Iowa has historically been on a par with while Ferentz has been at Iowa (or even a bit ahead of) have gotten better, while Iowa has stayed about the same. We want to be where Wisconsin and Mich. State have been.
 
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InGoodCo said:
i addressed every point you made... you just made bad points. HF and KF are definitely different at presenting themselves. No argument, I don't think you even mentioned that in your prior post. I just didn't get ANY of what you were saying. Saying KF doesn't want to recruit speed or FL? Saying he acts embarrassed to be from Iowa? That he coaches not to win? I literally addressed everything you said.

We don't agree, and that's fine. That's your right to have your opinion as do I. I will just speak up when I read things like that. Nothing against you, it just boggles my mind to read that people actually think that kind of stuff.
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We are all different. Today though I'd rather have the weekend for 2 at MSPL so we do change.
 
dirtwrap said:
In the Ferentz era, we have been national title contenders 3 times (02, 09, and 15).
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Contenders?
Isn't that a team who actually plays for one? Or at least deserved to?
'15 didn't belong on the same field as Stanford, so I can't say they were 'contenders'.
 
3-2, 0-2 is exactly where I thought we'd be. I'm not upset about the record. I am upset that our offense is...the same. The offense has been the achilles heel for most of the past 18+ seasons. You are allowed to have a high-powered offense while still doing things the right way, you know. I get the experience level on offense. Hell, I called it back in July that we'd struggle on offense. I said I would be okay with that if we were struggling with a new offensive philosophy that was more aggressive (see: Brian's probably the only person that can tell this dad to buzz off and be more aggressive on offense; so brian MUST be the new OC.) We aren't more aggressive. I said I would be okay with a struggling offense if it was because we had young talent playing. We've seen scattered glimpses of ISM. Hardly anything of B. Smith. IKM isn't getting much. Yet, those three guys will be the core of our offense next season, along with Stanley. Where has TY been? Yes, Easley has been a surprise. But Easley is a slot, possession guy that will replace MVB next season. So, next season, we won't have seasoned explosive talent ready to go. We'll have to go through "another" work in progress to reach our peak at the end of the season.
 
homes said:
While a healthy perspective is a good thing, in the end, a coach/a program is ultimately judged by his/its record. fn. Even Ferentz says that, in so many words. I also like this team. The defense is going to keep them in games. They seem like they have more playmakers on offense this year with Wadley, Fant, Vandeberg, Easley, ISM, than last year. It's achieving consistency on offense, which they cannot get to right now. This week is vital. A solid win, the bye week, and they're back in business. A loss, or a sloppy win, and it could be quite bumpy the rest of the year.

fn. not exclusively, because a program that does it wrong, for example, Baylor, shows that it's not just about the record, it's how you get there that matters, too.
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We can't achieve any consistency on offense because we have exactly one playmaker on the entire offense. Wadley. The rest of the names you mentioned are serviceable at best. Will they get better? Possibly, but the ceiling is only so high with these guys. Recruiting matters. Ferentz cannot recruit talent at receiver. As long as this continues, we will continue to see Wadley carry the ball for 2 yards a pop if we're lucky. You have to be able to stretch the field, and get the defense to respect your passing game, and nobody fears Stanley or any of our receivers.
 
I know MSU was a dumpster fire last season and they had off the field issues this season, but if you take a look at their recruiting vs Iowa, it's night and day. I can see Iowa fans being upset about recruiting (though I think it's improved the last few years) ....but again, losing in East Lansing was always a strong possibility. MSU is very beatable, but the circumstances are that Iowa isn't some superior head and shoulders better program then MSU because of one 3-9 season. They just aren't.
 
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