Penn State should give up football for a period of time

treychase said:
And, once again, just because child rape isn't a listed offense, doesn't mean it won't/shouldn't be pursued.

LOL at the ignorance
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Oh so you couldn't find one. Thanks for your ignorance.

If there were no law on speeding could the police pull you over and give you a ticket for driving 90 miles an hour?

What happened involves violations of criminal law which are handled in the criminal courts. Any civil suits will be handled in court as well. That is the proper venue for dealing with child abuse, not an organization in charge of enforcing rules regarding college athletics.
 
David79 said:
Oh so you couldn't find one. Thanks for your ignorance.

If there were no law on speeding could the police pull you over and give you a ticket for driving 90 miles an hour?

What happened involves violations of criminal law which are handled in the criminal courts. Any civil suits will be handled in court as well. That is the proper venue for dealing with child abuse, not an organization in charge of enforcing rules regarding college athletics.
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Is there a law for raping children?

LOL

Everyone is going to get their pound of flesh.
The public is going to DEMAND it.

The B1G will get theirs(hopefully throwing them out)
The NCAA will get theirs(hopefully death penalty)
The law enforcement will get theirs(prosecuting everyone near this)
The victims will get theirs(hope they get paid boatloads)
 
treychase said:
Is there a law for raping children?

LOL

Everyone is going to get their pound of flesh.
The public is going to DEMAND it.

The B1G will get theirs(hopefully throwing them out)
The NCAA will get theirs(hopefully death penalty)
The law enforcement will get theirs(prosecuting everyone near this)
The victims will get theirs(hope they get paid boatloads)
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You are too stupid to understand basic logic.

Ill try to make it easier for you.

There is no NCAA rule regarding criminal activity, including child abuse.
Because there is no NCAA rule regarding child abuse, there can be no violation of a NCAA rule.
Lack of Institutional Control as defined by NCAA involves failure to set up compliance, train, and enforce NCAA rules.
Because there are not NCAA rules regarding child abuse, Penn State can't be cited for lack of Institutional control.

It is really reading comprehension 101.

For some reason you have a belief that the NCAA can just make up rules after the fact. That is not the case.

If the NCAA were to cite PSU for LOIC they could easily challenge it in court and win. NCAA has said itself that they cannot punish criminal activity and can only punish for NCAA rule violations.

If you succesfully find me an NCAA rule violation, I will gladly agree that they can be punished for that.
 
HawkeyesWin said:
Using your program to lure rape victims into the control of a serial rapist that is KNOWN TO YOU isn't under the NCAA'a purview?
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I am saying it is, there is lack of Institutional control here, and I would think the NCAA can lay the hammer down based upon that.
 
Good to see David79 back on here defending Penn State again. Remember this is the same guy who tried to argue with me that the crimes committed at Iowa were on equal ground with what happened at Penn State.
 
David79 said:
You are too stupid to understand basic logic.

Ill try to make it easier for you.

There is no NCAA rule regarding criminal activity, including child abuse.
Because there is no NCAA rule regarding child abuse, there can be no violation of a NCAA rule.
Lack of Institutional Control as defined by NCAA involves failure to set up compliance, train, and enforce NCAA rules.
Because there are not NCAA rules regarding child abuse, Penn State can't be cited for lack of Institutional control.

It is really reading comprehension 101.

For some reason you have a belief that the NCAA can just make up rules after the fact. That is not the case.

If the NCAA were to cite PSU for LOIC they could easily challenge it in court and win. NCAA has said itself that they cannot punish criminal activity and can only punish for NCAA rule violations.

If you succesfully find me an NCAA rule violation, I will gladly agree that they can be punished for that.
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You seem to think the NCAA has the same requirements as the government legal system. The NCAA can do whatever the hell they want, they are the judge, jury and executioner in this situation. Penn State can file lawsuits, etc. to extend this thing out another 10 years if they want to, but my guess is when the NCAA lays the hammer down they shut up and take their medicine and hope this starts to go away sooner rather than later.
 
ssckelley said:
Good to see David79 back on here defending Penn State again. Remember this is the same guy who tried to argue with me that the crimes committed at Iowa were on equal ground with what happened at Penn State.
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How is saying the NCAA has not authority to do this defending Penn State?

The lack of intelligence on this board is amazing. It is as if you think the NCAA makes decisions on the following basis:
" How bad is it?"
"Well, Emmert, it is way worse than SMU, I can tell you that"
"True, whad did the NCAA due about SMU?"
"Gave them the death penalty sir"
"Well, then they get the death penalty too"

When in reality there are rules and regulations the NCAA has to follow, and a simple reading of those rules and regulations would help people on here post more informative opinions instead of simply talking out of their butt.
 
David79 said:
That is not an NCAA rule. Try again.
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Your stance is that no Ncaa rule was broken so no penalty can be given.

My stance is that children were raped, the crimes covered up, now uncovered and that the ncaa is going to investigate and find all kinds of rules that were broken(the Freeh report did), laws broken, etc. Some related some not.
So in the end the actual raping of the children isn't what will probably cause whatever penalties they receive from the ncaa but none of it would have happened if not for this.

So LOL if you think that the ncaa is hand tied and aren't going to stick a probe up PSU's butthole.

So you're correct.
 
Here is on snippet from the NCAA rule book on Lack of Institutional Control. See how they paint with a broad brush, so they can put almost anything they want in? After years of seeing unfair punishment handed down to institutions based on prestige, money, etc, it is obvious that the NCAA does what it wants when it wants.

The pressure to run a winning
program must not overcome the dedication of the institution to ethical conduct in all
aspects of its athletics program and to compliance with NCAA regulations
 
bighawkeyedaddy said:
You seem to think the NCAA has the same requirements as the government legal system. The NCAA can do whatever the hell they want, they are the judge, jury and executioner in this situation. Penn State can file lawsuits, etc. to extend this thing out another 10 years if they want to, but my guess is when the NCAA lays the hammer down they shut up and take their medicine and hope this starts to go away sooner rather than later.
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The NCAA is a member organization and the rules are agreed upon by the member insitutions. If you think the member institutions are going to agree to the NCAA just making up rules to punish them you are wrong. The members haven't given the authority to punish criminal activity. Now if in there investigation they find some kind of violation of NCAA rules, then I would imagine they will get a harsher than normal punishment for those rules. But they cannot or will not punish for criminal violations.
 
bighawkeyedaddy said:
Here is on snippet from the NCAA rule book on Lack of Institutional Control. See how they paint with a broad brush, so they can put almost anything they want in? After years of seeing unfair punishment handed down to institutions based on prestige, money, etc, it is obvious that the NCAA does what it wants when it wants.

The pressure to run a winning
program must not overcome the dedication of the institution to ethical conduct in all
aspects of its athletics program and to compliance with NCAA regulations
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While I agree the statement you posted supports your argument, that's really not the snippet that people are referencing in saying it doesn't fit the NCAA's definition of LOIC.
 
It is a perfect storm type moment for the NCAA. The BCS deal elevates football to an even more dominant status just as this example shows the folly of doing so.
 
David79 said:
The NCAA is a member organization and the rules are agreed upon by the member insitutions. If you think the member institutions are going to agree to the NCAA just making up rules to punish them you are wrong. The members haven't given the authority to punish criminal activity. Now if in there investigation they find some kind of violation of NCAA rules, then I would imagine they will get a harsher than normal punishment for those rules. But they cannot or will not punish for criminal violations.
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Did you even take the time to read the NCAA D1 manual?

Article 2.1 The Principle of Institutional Control and Responsibility

2.1.1 Responsibility for Control It is the responsibility of each member institution to control its intercollegiate athletics program in compliance with the rules and regulations of the Association. The institution's president or chancellor is responsible for the administration of all aspects of the athletics program, including approval of the budget and audit of all expenditures.

2.1.2 Scope of Responsibility The institution's responsibility for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program includes responsibility for its staff members and for the actions of any other individual or organization engaged in activities promoting the athletic interests of the institution.
 
David79 said:
Oh so you couldn't find one. Thanks for your ignorance.

If there were no law on speeding could the police pull you over and give you a ticket for driving 90 miles an hour?

What happened involves violations of criminal law which are handled in the criminal courts. Any civil suits will be handled in court as well. That is the proper venue for dealing with child abuse, not an organization in charge of enforcing rules regarding college athletics.
Click to expand...

Please, please tell me you aren't this ignorant....please.

You keep talking about "criminal" conduct not covered under the NCAA jurisdiction, and for that you are correct.

But what you seem unable or unwilling to grasp is that we aren't talking about child rapes anymore. Those charges were tried and the child rapist monster was convicted.

Now what we're talking about are two things. First, the coverup of child rapes committed by a member (and then former member) of the football coaching staff and known by members of the athletic department. This coverup was done for the sole reason of preventing a complete public relations debacle for the athletic department and to keep the football moneytrain running on time. Second, the inability and ineptness of the leadership of the institution (namely the Board of Trustees) to CONTROL the actions and activites of the leadership of the athletic department (i.e. athletic director and head football coach) through policies, procedures and oversight and prevent this coverup from occurring.

That, my friend, is called Lack of Institutional Control and will ultimately lead to the death penalty for the Penn State football program.
 
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