Penn State Gets Hammer: Worse than Death Penalty?

[imported_ankle23]

They are preseason #1.

I think they're doing ok.
LOL

and they haven't had a year yet sans sanctions. last recruiting class being the 1st year.

let it play out.

from espn.com on usc being preseason #1:

With nine starters back on offense and defense, including star quarterback Matt Barkley, the Trojans will have a legitimate chance at competing for a BCS national championship. They better do it this coming season, because the effects of NCAA sanctions and scholarship reductions will start being felt in 2013. Even with a smaller recruiting class, USC coach Lane Kiffin was able to add some much-needed help with linebacker Jabari Ruffin and receiver Nelson Agholor. The Trojans were one of the country's younger teams this past season, with 10 freshmen and sophomores starting. The Trojans will play six home games and six road games this season, including a Sept. 15 road trip to Stanford and a Nov. 3 home game against Oregon.

 

[treychase]

and they haven't had a year yet sans sanctions. last recruiting class being the 1st year.

let it play out.

from espn.com on usc being preseason #1:

With nine starters back on offense and defense, including star quarterback Matt Barkley, the Trojans will have a legitimate chance at competing for a BCS national championship. They better do it this coming season, because the effects of NCAA sanctions and scholarship reductions will start being felt in 2013. Even with a smaller recruiting class, USC coach Lane Kiffin was able to add some much-needed help with linebacker Jabari Ruffin and receiver Nelson Agholor. The Trojans were one of the country's younger teams this past season, with 10 freshmen and sophomores starting. The Trojans will play six home games and six road games this season, including a Sept. 15 road trip to Stanford and a Nov. 3 home game against Oregon.

I bet the worst that comes out of USC is maybe one season at 7-5, 8-4.

 

[JonDMiller]

There are a couple of things you have to remember about SMU.

First, the issues with SMU existed not only inside the athletic department, but outside of it. The NCAA really had no choice but to shut down the football program because the athletic department wasn't even running the football program, the boosters were. In the PSU instance, the issues were related strictly inside the athletic department.

Second, SMU basically dared the NCAA to do something....thinking they didn't have the guts. They pretty much flaunted what they were doing, even after having been warned repeatedly. PSU, on the other hand, after having found out what happened, fired their long time head coach, AD, VP and President. They also paid millions of dollars to have an outside group come in and investigate them and once the investigation was complete, accepted all the findings without question.

SMU was forced to cancel home games for the 2nd year...but not road games as to not harm other programs. However, SMU chose to shut it down entirely for two years. they were allowed to have spring practices the following spring after the one year penalty, but they themselves chose not to and just shut it all down for an additional year. People forget that SMU was the one who chose to shut it down entirely that second year.

Also, SMU lost 55 new scholarship positions over 4 years. PSU will lose 60 over 4 years.

 

[Topher]

i agree with most of the comments. you also have to look at the financial impact. they will be hit with a 60 million dollar fine and will not fill the seats for the next 8 years. good luck investing in practice facilities and doing any sort of updates they have envisioned.

 

[JonDMiller]

i agree with most of the comments. you also have to look at the financial impact. they will be hit with a 60 million dollar fine and will not fill the seats for the next 8 years. good luck investing in practice facilities and doing any sort of updates they have envisioned.

They will still have 75k+, which is more than Kinnick and half B1G

 

[ssckelley]

So they get to sign the top 15 in PA & NJ instead of the top 25, big deal. They still get to have home games, tail gate, be happy, and chant their stupid "we are penn state" like nothing ever happened. Look how bad USC slipped during the years they lost 10 scholarships, they are only a top 25 team instead of a top 5. The amount of money they are losing is chump change compared to the amount of endowment money they have. This was a slap on the wrist and proved that protecting football is top priority even at an educational institution for higher learning.

 

[fsanford]

last recruiting class (2012) they had 16 kids. the year prior (2011) 30.

the sanctions state that USC has 15 new scholarships for each of the three years and a 75 cap for each of the next three years.

Scholarship Math - USC Trojans

For many programs, that last 10 group of kids some will probably redshirt a year. So do they truly have 85 available, yes you can pull a kids redshirt but most coaches would put a walk on in before burning a kids eligibility for a few games.

So really what are we talking here on an annual basis the difference 80 vs 75 available players per year? Is that is significant number.. I will agree Kiffin had better be a good judge of character and make sure the kid has a good head on their shoulders.
Also with the caliber of kid they get, you probably get some jumping to the NFL early.
But long term pain, just do not see it.

Mike Belloti was on Cowherd and pretty much echoed the same thing USC will probably get through it without too much issue. PSU not so much due to length of bowl bans, recruiting territory (USC has NFL status in Los Angeles) and the 65 scholly limit.

This was a death penalty for PSU..

 

[bws258]

I don't think you're doing a very good job thinking this through....

PSU will be limited to 65 scholarship players for the next 4 years. That's 20 fewer scholarship players than everyone else.

Then, it will take them an additional 2 years to get back up to 85 scholarship players because you cant sign more than 25 per year in the Big 10. So right there, that's going to be 6 years of reduced scholarships compared to everyone else. Then, it will be another 2 years before they are able to purge the "lesser" players that are still on scholarship from the last 2 years of the 4 year scholarship limitation.

So all told, we are looking at 8 years of probably 2-3 wins per year, which means they won't be able to start being competitive again until probably 2020.

A recruit in 2020 will have been born in 2002. Normal age for a boy to start paying serious attention to a college football team is about age 8-10. That means that a recruit in 2020, born in 2002, will start paying attention in 2010-2012. From that point until that kid is 18, PSU will be the worst team in the Big 10 for the eight years that that kid has been following college football. You really think he's just going to have no problem committing to a school that for his entire college football fandom has been the worst team in the Big 10?

You need to think a little farther than the end of your nose.

what a pile of mental masturbation ... just because you extend your line of though past "the end of your nose" doesn't mean those synaptic impulses make any damn sense whatsoever.

 

[treychase]

SMU was forced to cancel home games for the 2nd year...but not road games as to not harm other programs. However, SMU chose to shut it down entirely for two years. they were allowed to have spring practices the following spring after the one year penalty, but they themselves chose not to and just shut it all down for an additional year. People forget that SMU was the one who chose to shut it down entirely that second year.

Also, SMU lost 55 new scholarship positions over 4 years. PSU will lose 60 over 4 years.

Just the same as PSU isn't USC, PSU isn't SMU, Jon.

A decade from now, they'll be about what they are now, a middle of the road B1G program.

 

[SpiderRico]

what a pile of mental masturbation ... just because you extend your line of though past "the end of your nose" doesn't mean those synaptic impulses make any damn sense whatsoever.

Sure they don't because, you know, all big time recruits want to go to a school that, for the last 8 years, was the laughing stock of the conference as well as the country.

But yeah, I'm sure that once the sanctions are up, PSU will just reload with talent as if nothing ever happened.

Sure.

 

[JonDMiller]

So they get to sign the top 15 in PA & NJ instead of the top 25, big deal. They still get to have home games, tail gate, be happy, and chant their stupid "we are penn state" like nothing ever happened. Look how bad USC slipped during the years they lost 10 scholarships, they are only a top 25 team instead of a top 5. The amount of money they are losing is chump change compared to the amount of endowment money they have. This was a slap on the wrist and proved that protecting football is top priority even at an educational institution for higher learning.

If you think the Top 15 kids in PA are going to sign with PSU over the next few years, you'd be mistaken. And they can't get by with just the best in PA, IMO. Their program has historically done well regionally, real well..that's gonna take a hit.

Of their 13 current commits, 6 are from PA.

They signed just 4 PA kids last year and just 5 the year before.

 

[JonDMiller]

Just the same as PSU isn't USC, PSU isn't SMU, Jon.

A decade from now, they'll be about what they are now, a middle of the road B1G program.

No doubt, they will be much better positioned to rise faster. My SMU mentions are strictly related to the debate of whether or not PSU's penalties were worse or just as bad as a one year death penalty. Some have forgotten or don't know just what NCAA did to SMU...they didn't hand down a two year ban.

Given those elements that are in place at PSU, I think this punishment might be worse

 

[treychase]

Sure they don't because, you know, all big time recruits want to go to a school that, for the last 8 years, was the laughing stock of the conference as well as the country.

But yeah, I'm sure that once the sanctions are up, PSU will just reload with talent as if nothing ever happened.

Sure.

You are sooo wrong.
Those kids growing up in Pennsylvania will absolutely want to go there.
Just look at the freakshow that is their campus right now.
They will have no shortage of Pennsylvania kids that want to go to Penn St.

The thought that they won't is astonishingly ignorant.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

If you think the Top 15 kids in PA are going to sign with PSU over the next few years, you'd be mistaken. And they can't get by with just the best in PA, IMO. Their program has historically done well regionally, real well..that's gonna take a hit.

Of their 13 current commits, 6 are from PA.

They signed just 4 PA kids last year and just 5 the year before.

I think the program will be toast. I think what the NCAA did today is just a way of buying time for B1G to find a replacement.

PSU is a MAC program waiting to happen.

 

[glidinghawk]

SMU was forced to cancel home games for the 2nd year...but not road games as to not harm other programs. However, SMU chose to shut it down entirely for two years. they were allowed to have spring practices the following spring after the one year penalty, but they themselves chose not to and just shut it all down for an additional year. People forget that SMU was the one who chose to shut it down entirely that second year.

Also, SMU lost 55 new scholarship positions over 4 years. PSU will lose 60 over 4 years.

SMU won 30 percent of their games over a period of 20 years after the death penalty.

 

[treychase]

No doubt, they will be much better positioned to rise faster. My SMU mentions are strictly related to the debate of whether or not PSU's penalties were worse or just as bad as a one year death penalty. Some have forgotten or don't know just what NCAA did to SMU...they didn't hand down a two year ban.

Given those elements that are in place at PSU, I think this punishment might be worse

Depends.
If its a one year death sentence and then business as usual, maybe, but I still doubt it.

 

[Topher]

can current psu's players be actively recruited?

 

[DexterMorgan]

can current psu's players be actively recruited?

yes

 

[JonDMiller]

SMU won 30 percent of their games over a period of 20 years after the death penalty.

Yes, and they vastly changed their admissions and de-emphasized the sport...I dont think PSU will fair that poorly but they are not going to be PENN STATE again for a long, long time

 

[hawkeyebob62]

You are sooo wrong.
Those kids growing up in Pennsylvania will absolutely want to go there.
Just look at the freakshow that is their campus right now.
They will have no shortage of Pennsylvania kids that want to go to Penn St.

The thought that they won't is astonishingly ignorant.

With a four-year bowl ban? And 15-scholly limit? I'd say the PSU program will be toast in two years. Once alums and Trustees and Athletic Department officials see the impact--AND when the player AND coaching staff exodus gets into full swing--they will just shut it down until a pre-determinded future date.