Pearl/Keno

J

JDeMoney

Well-Known Member
I think nearly every Hawkeye fan on this board (and elsewhere) would be pleased if somehow Bruce Pearl ended up being our next head basketball coach.

But let's assume for a moment that Pearl, in fact, does not wish to leave Tennessee for the Iowa job for any amount of money (which I think is a very, very safe bet.)

I have this question for those of you who do NOT want Keno Davis to be offered the job. Please explain to me what you see in Pearl that you do NOT see in Keno Davis?

I am telling you this. If Iowa never hires Keno Davis, it will be the biggest mistake its made since ... well, you know when.

Keno WILL win at Providence and eventually move on to a better job and he will win there too.

I just hope that better job is Iowa.
 
Wrong, I don't think Pearl is the answer. The system wins games but doesn't win at tourny time. Give me Scott Drew as long as we keep a short leash on him. And I only say that because some think that he has some seedy dealings.

Hang Loose
 
JDeMoney said:
I think nearly every Hawkeye fan on this board (and elsewhere) would be pleased if somehow Bruce Pearl ended up being our next head basketball coach.

But let's assume for a moment that Pearl, in fact, does not wish to leave Tennessee for the Iowa job for any amount of money (which I think is a very, very safe bet.)

I have this question for those of you who do NOT want Keno Davis to be offered the job. Please explain to me what you see in Pearl that you do NOT see in Keno Davis?

I am telling you this. If Iowa never hires Keno Davis, it will be the biggest mistake its made since ... well, you know when.

Keno WILL win at Providence and eventually move on to a better job and he will win there too.

I just hope that better job is Iowa.
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Pearl is a PROVEN winner in a tough conference. Keno was a one and done deal with Drake and hasn't done anything yet at Providence. And, NO Keno won't be successful at Providence like he was at Drake. It's one of the more difficult places in the nation because of what he has to compete with.


Keno=Lickliter. Both mid major success stories, with no proven BCS record.
 
It's simply that Keno hasn't proven anything to me yet. ONE good year in the MVC with a first round NCAA loss isn't proof to me that he can win in the Big Ten, or the Big East. Pearl IS winning in the SEC.

The jury simply is still out on Keno. I think most of us just don't want another unproven coach.

Pearl is proven. Keno is not. That's all.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
It's simply that Keno hasn't proven anything to me yet. ONE good year in the MVC with a first round NCAA loss isn't proof to me that he can win in the Big Ten, or the Big East. Pearl IS winning in the SEC.

The jury simply is still out on Keno. I think most of us just don't want another unproven coach.

Pearl is proven. Keno is not. That's all.
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We can agree that Pearl is the better choice between the two. That wasn't my question.

Don't forget Keno also won 19 games his first season in the Big East, which is arguably the best league in college basketball.

The point is do you think Iowa would have been smart to have hired Bruce Pearl BEFORE he became Bruce Pearl?

Barta chose Lickliter because he was "a safe pick." But, in reality, Lickliter's ceiling as a head coach had already been achieved at Butler and it just wasn't the right pick.

Remember, when Tennessee hired Pearl it was not considered "a safe pick." His only coaching success had occurred at even lower levels than Keno (the Horizon League and Division II). Plus, his name was still mud in many coaching and media circles

When Iowa hired Ferentz, it was not "a safe pick."

Sure, if Iowa could hire anyone they wanted, they would go with Bill Self, Roy Williams, Bruce Pearl, whomever.

Think in terms of who is going to be the best coach and the best fit going forward among the realistic candidates.

And, if you like Pearl and his lineage/system/style of play, I don't see how you would not like Keno.

http://www.friars.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/davis_keno00.html
 
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Pearl can recruit better. Keno has not proven he can effectively coach or recruit at a Big 6 school.
 
JDeMoney said:
We can agree that Pearl is the better choice between the two. That wasn't my question.

Don't forget Keno also won 19 games his first season in the Big East, which is arguably the best league in college basketball.

The point is do you think Iowa would have been smart to have hired Bruce Pearl BEFORE he became Bruce Pearl?

Barta chose Lickliter because he was "a safe pick." But, in reality, Lickliter's ceiling as a head coach had already been achieved at Butler and it just wasn't the right pick.

Remember, when Tennessee hired Pearl it was not considered "a safe pick." His only coaching success had occurred at even lower levels than Keno (the Horizon League and Division II). Plus, his name was still mud in many coaching and media circles

When Iowa hired Ferentz, it was not "a safe pick."

Sure, if Iowa could hire anyone they wanted, they would go with Bill Self, Roy Williams, Bruce Pearl, whomever.

Think in terms of who is going to be the best coach and the best fit going forward among the realistic candidates.

And, if you like Pearl and his lineage/system/style of play, I don't see how you would not like Keno.

Providence College Official Athletics Site - Men's Basketball
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The two things that get me leery of Keno are these: 1. his team plays NO defense. How do you score 106 points (or whatever it was) and LOSE??? The answer: by not playing any defense. And 2. He's not proven himself to be a good recruiter. His one year at Drake, Tom groomed that year for Keno. His 19-win year at Providence: with players he inherited. Now? They are sub-500. After how everything went down with Lickliter, I don't want an unproven recruiter. Pearl may have a similar style, but he also recruits VERY well.
 
At Drake, he won with someone else's players.
First year at Providence, he won with someone else's players.
This year he lost almost 20 games and only won 4 in the BE.

Has just 3 years of head coaching experience and his only experience at a BCS school before Providence was coaching under his dad almost 20 years ago.

His teams play zero defense.

No thanks. If Iowa gets rid of Lickliter, they had better upgrade. Right now that's a horizontal hire at best.
 
Also, it is great to see you on here, Jamie. Seriously. Glad you are stopping by, I miss getting made a fool out of by you. :)
 
I'd love to see Keno. He didn't win with someone else's players at Drake. He was on the staff with Dr. and those kids all new Keno would be taking over.

He also led Providence to a great deal of success his first year, considering years in the past. He had to completely reload this year and he was able to recruit some real talent. If he's coaching at Providence next year, he'll have a great deal of success and that's saying something as having success in the Big East is tough.

He's young, energetic and comes from great stock. He would be a vast improvement over Lick.

For further proof, Drake was in much worse shape when they took over than Butler was when Lick took over....much worse. Keno has actually been involved with rebuilding a program.
 
storminspank said:
At Drake, he won with someone else's players.
First year at Providence, he won with someone else's players.
This year he lost almost 20 games and only won 4 in the BE.

Has just 3 years of head coaching experience and his only experience at a BCS school before Providence was coaching under his dad almost 20 years ago.

His teams play zero defense.

No thanks. If Iowa gets rid of Lickliter, they had better upgrade. Right now that's a horizontal hire at best.
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Thanks for welcoming me back, Spank. :) I've been laying low the last couple years, waiting for this inevitable situation to finally arrive. I'm just glad we all didn't have to wait another year to begin arguing over who should take over for Lickliter.

1) Someone else's players at Drake? You serious, Clark? Keno and the rest of Mr. Davis's staff did the lion's share of beating the bushes for recruits while at Drake. Even if you don't want to give Keno any credit, give Keno's current assistant coach and lead recruiter Chris Davis at Providence the props. Saying Keno won with someone else's guys at Drake is borderline absurd. Even the most ardent anti-Keno guy would have to admit that.

2) Was Tennessee making a "horizontal hire" when they went after a guy whose only head coaching experience was in the Horizon League and Division II? Was it a "horizontal hire" when Baylor hired Scott Drew after his one year coaching at Valpo?

Spank: If, indeed, Lickliter gets the hook, give me your top five candidates. Also, generally speaking, do you like Bruce Pearl as a coach? If so, tell me three things that are different about Bruce Pearl as a young coach that are different than Keno Davis as a young coach.

Here is my initial top 5 candidates list (subject to change):

1) Bruce Pearl (pipedream)
2) Keno Davis
3) Mark Turgeon (no background in the Big Ten recruiting grounds but he can flat out coach)
4) Doug Wojcik
5) Scott Drew (although I have concerns he would not be allowed to "stretch" the rules at Iowa as he allegedly has done at Baylor)

Let's see yours.
 
icwesthawkeye said:
Wrong, I don't think Pearl is the answer. The system wins games but doesn't win at tourny time. Give me Scott Drew as long as we keep a short leash on him. And I only say that because some think that he has some seedy dealings.

Hang Loose
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Dude, right about now, give me the winning games and getting to the tournament. It would be great to be here in five or six years and 'complain' that we can't get to the Elite 8 regularly.

BTW, that system never lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament at Iowa. And it also made two Sweet 16's with rosters that were hardly Top 16 in the nation.
 
The difference between Pearl and Keno...

Keno has 3 years of head coaching experience. Before Bruce went to UT, he had 13 years of head coaching experience, including a DII National Championship. 20+ wins in his last three years at UWM (never finishing lower than 3rd in the Horizon, winning in twice). Keno has hit the 20 win mark once, at Drake using his dad's players/help.

Bruce Pearl had over 300 wins as a head coach before going to UT. Keno Davis sits with 59. 31 in two seasons at Prov. and 28 in one miracle season at Drake.

Bruce Pearl was an assistant at 3 different BCS schools (Stanford, Iowa, and BC). Keno was an assistant at 1 BCS school - Iowa under his dad.

Pearl went through the ranks and succeeded throughout.
Assistant at the 3 major schools, head coach at DII (where he won a NC), mid-major head coach, SEC coach. He put in his time (almost 30 years) before he made it big time. He was very much a seasoned coach by the time he hit UT.

Keno, on the other hand, was never a head coach anywhere until he took over Drake for one season. Beside Iowa, he hadn't even been an assistant at a major school. Once Keno left Iowa, he worked as an assistant coach at DII and midmajor schools, never a head coach. He doesn't have the same background as Pearl did coming out of UWM.

As far as a list, I haven't really thought of it because I'm not 100% sure Lickliter is gone. But, that said, here's who I'd entertain.

Bruce Pearl. Has and always be my #1 choice.
Rob Jeter - asst coach under a couple big schools, coached under Bo Ryan.
Reggie Theus - no idea why, I just like him. I realize that's dumb of me.
I like Turgeon, I like Pitino's assistant, I like Speraw. I don't know, though.

I don't really have an idea on replacements, I just know Keno isn't the answer. If Lickliter is taken out - it had better be for someone big. BIG.
 
JDeMoney said:
I have this question for those of you who do NOT want Keno Davis to be offered the job. Please explain to me what you see in Pearl that you do NOT see in Keno Davis?
Click to expand...

Then you go on to say:

Once again, it's not a choice between Pearl and Keno. I think we'd all prefer if Pearl was hired over Keno.



So, tell me, Jamie, you continue to say how 'it is not a choice between the two' - yet, you made a distinct comparative of Keno and Pearl.

In the end, you have (and so is everyone else in this thread) made it a choice/comparison between Keno and Bruce.

I am guessing you are quietly comparing Keno to his father, hence the big potential you are throwing out there.

Personally, I was no longer a fan of Tom Davis after he crushed my young heart in 1987 with his 'play not to lose' strategy every time he got big leads. We had UNLV on the ropes, and he let them up. Talent-wise, we were on par or better than anyone in the country that year.

Bruce Pearl is a different coach than Davis even though he was a key assistant for years.

I like Pearl for a few reasons:

a) Instant excitement in the fanbase
b) He and his staff can recruit pretty darn well
c) Yellow or bright gold jackets on the sidelines
d) He blew the whistle on the Illinois coaching staff, another positive.

For the record, I would say Keno might make my Top 5 replacement choices. Might.

1) Pearl
2) Mark Montgomery
3) Mark Few
4) Rick Pitino - he is locked into Louisville, though. Darnit.
5) Mark Turgeon - the guy can flat out coach.
 
JDeMoney said:
We can agree that Pearl is the better choice between the two. That wasn't my question.

Don't forget Keno also won 19 games his first season in the Big East, which is arguably the best league in college basketball.

The point is do you think Iowa would have been smart to have hired Bruce Pearl BEFORE he became Bruce Pearl?

Barta chose Lickliter because he was "a safe pick." But, in reality, Lickliter's ceiling as a head coach had already been achieved at Butler and it just wasn't the right pick.

Remember, when Tennessee hired Pearl it was not considered "a safe pick." His only coaching success had occurred at even lower levels than Keno (the Horizon League and Division II). Plus, his name was still mud in many coaching and media circles

When Iowa hired Ferentz, it was not "a safe pick."

Sure, if Iowa could hire anyone they wanted, they would go with Bill Self, Roy Williams, Bruce Pearl, whomever.

Think in terms of who is going to be the best coach and the best fit going forward among the realistic candidates.

And, if you like Pearl and his lineage/system/style of play, I don't see how you would not like Keno.

Providence College Official Athletics Site - Men's Basketball
Click to expand...

To answer your question, I remember Tennessee hiring Pearl a few years ago and finding myself wishing that it was us instead of them, so yes, I wanted Pearl before he was Pearl. I recognized that he was winning conference titles at UW-Milwaukee, played a fun style of ball, was energetic, had Iowa ties, etc. etc. So the answer is "Yes".

It has nothing to do with style of play that makes me leary of Keno. I would enjoy the up-tempo style, absolutely. I just am not convinced that Keno can actually WIN consistently at this level. Not yet anyway. It's not enough for me to just be enteraining. I'm tired of the losing AND the boring style of play.

Does that answer your question? It's a matter of coaching credibility, not likeability.
 
storminspank said:
The difference between Pearl and Keno...

Keno has 3 years of head coaching experience. Before Bruce went to UT, he had 13 years of head coaching experience, including a DII National Championship. 20+ wins in his last three years at UWM (never finishing lower than 3rd in the Horizon, winning in twice). Keno has hit the 20 win mark once, at Drake using his dad's players/help.

Bruce Pearl had over 300 wins as a head coach before going to UT. Keno Davis sits with 59. 31 in two seasons at Prov. and 28 in one miracle season at Drake.

Bruce Pearl was an assistant at 3 different BCS schools (Stanford, Iowa, and BC). Keno was an assistant at 1 BCS school - Iowa under his dad.

Pearl went through the ranks and succeeded throughout.
Assistant at the 3 major schools, head coach at DII (where he won a NC), mid-major head coach, SEC coach. He put in his time (almost 30 years) before he made it big time. He was very much a seasoned coach by the time he hit UT.

Keno, on the other hand, was never a head coach anywhere until he took over Drake for one season. Beside Iowa, he hadn't even been an assistant at a major school. Once Keno left Iowa, he worked as an assistant coach at DII and midmajor schools, never a head coach. He doesn't have the same background as Pearl did coming out of UWM.

As far as a list, I haven't really thought of it because I'm not 100% sure Lickliter is gone. But, that said, here's who I'd entertain.

Bruce Pearl. Has and always be my #1 choice.
Rob Jeter - asst coach under a couple big schools, coached under Bo Ryan.
Reggie Theus - no idea why, I just like him. I realize that's dumb of me.
I like Turgeon, I like Pitino's assistant, I like Speraw. I don't know, though.

I don't really have an idea on replacements, I just know Keno isn't the answer. If Lickliter is taken out - it had better be for someone big. BIG.
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Spank --

Two things ...

1) I was looking for more a comparison between Pearl at age 36 vs. Keno at age 36 rather than Pearl at 46 vs. Keno at 36. What I'm saying is I think Keno is on a similar career arc and will be as successful as Pearl at least by the time he is 46 (earlier, actually).

2) You want someone BIG and then you list Rob Jeter and Kirk Speraw? WTF??? Uh, what have those guys done that Keno hasn't? A heck of a lot less, is the answer.

Did you consider Lickliter (whom you still support) as a BIG hire? I know, I know. He was national coach of the year. Yawn. So was Keno.

So be it. We'll get who we get.
 
JDeMoney said:
Spank --

Two things ...

1) I was looking for more a comparison between Pearl at age 36 vs. Keno at age 36 rather than Pearl at 46 vs. Keno at 36. What I'm saying is I think Keno is on a similar career arc and will be as successful as Pearl at least by the time he is 46 (earlier, actually).

2) You want someone BIG and then you list Rob Jeter and Kirk Speraw? WTF??? Uh, what have those guys done that Keno hasn't? A heck of a lot less, is the answer.

Did you consider Lickliter (whom you still support) as a BIG hire? I know, I know. He was national coach of the year. Yawn. So was Keno.

So be it. We'll get who we get.
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Pearl's career was probably set back at least a decade by the Deon Thomas/Dick Vitale witch hunt against him. The way that guy won at Southern Indiana, you don't have to languish as long as he did there without getting the call, and the call you get would have certainly been more than UW-Milwaukee. 9 years at S. Indiana, and never had below a .759 winning percentage...and only one year under .806.

I think Bruce was 37 when he took over at UW-Milwaukee.
 
JDeMoney said:
Spank --

Two things ...

1) I was looking for more a comparison between Pearl at age 36 vs. Keno at age 36 rather than Pearl at 46 vs. Keno at 36. What I'm saying is I think Keno is on a similar career arc and will be as successful as Pearl at least by the time he is 46 (earlier, actually).

2) You want someone BIG and then you list Rob Jeter and Kirk Speraw? WTF??? Uh, what have those guys done that Keno hasn't? A heck of a lot less, is the answer.

Did you consider Lickliter (whom you still support) as a BIG hire? I know, I know. He was national coach of the year. Yawn. So was Keno.

So be it. We'll get who we get.
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Like I said, I really haven't thought of replacements, just throwing names out there. When Lickliter was hired, I was very much underwhelmed. I wanted Barta to make a splash hire, and he didn't.

Jeter has proven he can recruit. Tutored under Bo Ryan for a good while. Had a nice assistant resume. Has 2 more years than Keno as a HC.

Speraw has been a HC for almost 20 years in JUCO and at UCF. Former Iowa player helps too. :)

But really, I don't know who to hire, just that if Barta goes that route it had better be a great hire.

The whole point is, a 36 year old Keno isn't ready to take over a program like Iowa. We'd have more on-the-job-training than we had with Alford.
 
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If Wolfgang is out there, he was the only one that caught my subliminal whispers on my radio podcast back in late November when I was whispering 'keno davis' ;)
 
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