ssckelley
Well-Known Member
Yep, that will be his biggest obstacle to overcome. Those are some big o and d lines he will need to look over.
Pavia
- Thread starter Grady
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Yep, that will be his biggest obstacle to overcome. Those are some big o and d lines he will need to look over.
Fryowa
Administrator
Correct. There are lots of photos out there of him standing next to guys with 6' listed heights and he's clearly a few inches shorter.
5'9" is being pretty generous.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
I don't think Pavia will even get the Manziel draft hype. Kiper adjusted his big board last Thursday and he does not have Pavia in his top 10 QB's. He's the 3rd one listed as "just missed", Manziel was considered to be one of the top QB's available and was taken in the first round (I'll never forget him pouting as he was dropped to #22). Some team might take him as a late round flyer and perhaps he winds up on a NFL practice squad. Teams might look at him as a Kyler Murray lite type of QB.
SwirlinLingerie
Well-Known Member
I think he was officially measured at just under 5'10" in the past year. It's not the absolute deal breaker some think it is. There are two 5'10" starters in the league now - Kyler Murray and Bryce Young. Russell Wilson is a future hall of famer and he was still starting earlier this year at 5'11".
But it doesn't help being that height.
But it doesn't help being that height.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
This is far from certain. I certainly would not put him in and a lot of commentators agree with me. He won a single superbowl with a historically great defense. He was certainly a marginal to good HOF candidate when he left Seattle, and frankly, a couple decent years elsewhere probably cements it. That did not happen. He has been an absolute trainwreck and franchise killer since leaving Seattle. If he was in the HOF before leaving, I think he has absolutely played himself out of the HOF given his time in Denver and NY. I mean, if we need no further proof as to how bad a QB he has been for 5 years, Seattle let him go without a fight, Denver paid him 100 million dollars to leave so they could draft a rookie and start over, and he is now the third string QB on one of the worst teams in the league.
His whole body of work is looked at. And, its not the Hall of Wildly Inconsistent Play.
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
HawkPowerlifter
Well-Known Member
I am amazed how quickly he slid.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
I want to say that once he was separated from the great Pete Carrol, he lost his guru. But, Carrol has been a trainwreck in Oakland and probably gets fired soon. Plus, Wilson had the chance to be paired with a true QB guru in Sean Payton, and Payton absolutely did not want Wilson. He ate one of the biggest contract hits in history to get rid of Wilson.
All I can come up with is that he actually was just not that great a QB and benefitted from the Legion of Boom and Beast Mode in ways we did not realize.
Fryowa
Administrator
One of the reasons I can't hardly watch NFL anymore. I just like running more and everything in the NFL is 40 yard passes with a token run up the middle sprinkled in for reasons I don't know.
Lynch was the last one of the old guard and the NFL kind of died with him. I get the whole Derrick Henry thing but that's different.
Give me 90s and early 2000s pro ball any day.
SwirlinLingerie
Well-Known Member
A lot to unpack there. We can say he is at least a borderline Hall of Fame QB who stands 5'11". That was my main point.
Anyway, here are some thoughts.
The decline was crazy fast. But he was an awesome QB during his prime. Yes, the legion of boom and Beast Mode were great, but if you look back, those guys really were only the core of the team for 5 or 6 years. He had a nine year run of not having a losing season. That's really hard to do in the NFL.
Since the Hawks are our local team, I watched a lot of those games over the years. He was far from a game manager who only relied on defense and a running game. His brilliance was buying time on broken plays, sometimes taking off for long runs but more often allowing his receivers to get open way down field and then hitting them with trademark rainbows (that seemed to fall from the sky perfectly into his WR's hands).
In my opinion, his rapid decline was losing a quarter or half step that had made him elite. There were so many times the defense had him, and he was able to spin out of the rush at the last second and buy time. That was his super power.
The numbers.
10 Pro Bowls - tied for 5th all time among QBs.
One of only 7 QBs in history in make 10 pro bowls and win a super bowl.
QB passer rating of about 100, 5th all time (constantly changing a bit)
16th in all time passing yards
12th in all time passing touchdowns
Most wins by a QB in their first 9 seasons; back to back Super Bowls
99topdawg
Well-Known Member
That is a pretty good argument, and you surprised me with a lot of that info.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the stats. I think they prove my original point, which is Wilson likely played himself out of the HOF. If he retired after '21 from Seattle and never played another down, he would have been a plausible HOF candidate. Probably 50/50 or less. I mean, Denver was not the only team willing to sign him to a deal. But, he has had 4 disastrous seasons since, and its not like he was ancient. He was what, like 33 when he got to Denver?
Also, stop with the pro bowls. That is not a measuring stick. There are so many opt outs that often times they get down to like the 5th or 6th guy in each conference. I did not do a deep dive, but his last year in the pro bowl in '21 he only made it because Brady could not play in it. Tyler Huntley played in the pro bowl. Nuff said.
All Pro? That is a statement of who the best is at every position. Wilson made second team all pro one year. So, he has never been the best at his position even once during his entire career. Is that dispositive? No. But its damned important.
MVP? Never even got a single vote. Ever.
He doesn't merit a jacket IMHO. Not if you look at his total body of work. He was really good for 10 years. Then really, really awful. Never truly elite.
Fryowa
Administrator
I feel bad for the other 3.
I mean, just making the final four is a hell of an accomplishment and it'd be cool to have a regular nice photo. No way you can put that shit on your wall with that knuckle head in it.
Disagree, Pavia ups the memorability of that photo an order of magnitude. Forty years down the road, their grandson is going to see that photo, and they are going to be able to regale him with stories about what it was like hanging with that dude for an evening.
Fryowa
Administrator
Cool thought but there's no way they hung out with him. Unless by hanging out you mean being forced to sit next to him on that TV set.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Agree. I don't think he's going to get drafted and his antics are not surely going to help. He needed help prior with his frame size and being a dick is just going to turn anybody remotely looking to look the other way, IMO. I looked at his past and path, and to be honest I don't know how good he really is or if just is a situation of where he is at this time.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Yep. The average lineman in the NFL is prob at least 6'5 with many around 6'7. I just don't see it in the NFL.
That is what I mean, and you don't think they have some stories from that?!?