Passed him By

OK, and this is probably a hijack, why do you guys (IMO, irrationally) LOVE KF?


for me, i think he is a good coach, and he has done things at iowa that no other coach has done in my (and I'm guessing your) lifetime.

4 top 8 finishes. Fry had two AP #10 finishes in his Iowa career. #8 ranking is best since 1960.

1 BCS-level bowl wins. Fry had none, and previously wasn't done at Iowa since 1960.

Represents Iowa very well, with class, without fear of embarrassment and sanction.

Put those two facts together, and you have a solid foundation as to why I support Ferentz.
 


And how many of those guys have played a single snap in an NFL regular season game? That criteria scratches off Stanzi, McNutt and Reisner for sure, and I believe Vandervelde and Gettis.

The defense had 7 starters who have actually played in an NFL game, at least 3 of whom are NFL starters (Klug, Clayborn, Spievey; Angerer has been a starter in the past).

And for the record, the offense ranked 89th in total offense, 86th in scoring, 99th in rushing, 83rd in passing efficiency. The list goes on. It wasn't terrible, but it was a FAR cry from being good. Much closer to bad than good.
Here's another bit of straw man logic because Alabama, who won the NC in the 2009 season, had very similar offensive rankings to Iowa's in 2009. Alabama's defense was much better than Iowa's defense in the 2009 season, though. Yeah, right, Iowa will never be like Alabama.......
 
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Here's another bit of straw man logic because Alabama, who won the NC in the 2009 season, had very similar offensive rankings to Iowa's in 2009. Alabama's defense was much better than Iowa's defense in the 2009 season, though. Yeah, right, Iowa will never be like Alabama.......

iowa's team in 2009 was filled with veteran players. and those vets were very good. several 5th year players from 2005 class. recently, we've found out what happens when iowa doesn't have good, quality, experienced players who are in starting roles. a team like alabama just reloads. they pick who they want. iowa has never been, and will never be, a team that can play that way. iowa is, for the most part, a developmental program. has been for as long as i've been a fan.
 


Here's another bit of straw man logic because Alabama, who won the NC in the 2009 season, had very similar offensive rankings to Iowa's in 2009. Alabama's defense was much better than Iowa's defense in the 2009 season, though. Yeah, right, Iowa will never be like Alabama.......

When an Adam Robinson, Jeff Tarpinian, Jewel Hampton, Adam Gettis, etc, etc go down at Alabama, they have someone close to just as good playing behind them.

There is little to no margin for error at Iowa.
 


I did see that. But the "I came here because of the state of the program" is something straight off the Pentacrest every October of every even-numbered year since about 1900.

Wow, if you only knew.

I came here because I was mad that my team was horrible. Good reason to come on to a forum? Maybe, maybe not.

FreedComanche
 


Kf has given us the best decade iowa football has ever seen (or seen since we added face masks to the equation), has given us some of our biggest wins ever, biggest biwl wins ever, had given us some of our best players ever, and on and on. We cannot finish top ten every year. No program can, not even Alabama, USC, notre dame, Michigan, Florida, Miami, etc. it goes in cycles. He has made lots if changes, but it is very hard to win year in and year out. He could coach then and can now.
 




Ooth and I have the view that kf's talents do not suit him to be a head football coach at all. He's a good o line coach. That's what he's gifted at. The reason for the success he's had is because of the good coaches he had hired at one time. Once they left, the recruiting went down hill and this is what you are seeing now. A team that has bottom half big ten talent.

This past year you saw kf panic in firing some bad position coaches (which was needed a few years ago) and hire some, hopefully, good ones.

Yes, I realize this is the minority view. I have a friend that totally hates what's going on now with Iowa football, but he's loyal to kf till death. We have some good arguments.

FreedComanche


Recruiting went down hill? or attrition caught up? Outside of a very few outliers....recruiting is what it is what it is at Iowa....and even when it wasn't....it still was. While coaching changes typically do negatively effect recruiting, I don't think them leaving fully explains why we are where we are. Was there really that large of a difference in recruiting or talent (honest question, I would need to see the recruting rankings from the past 20 years or so)....my guess is no.

I don't think anyone can argue that there is about 8-10 gaffes that have been extremely stark and unfavoring for KF and his staff over the last decade or so. While i'm not a fan of seeminly not being quick with decision and not being prepared for the unexpected, I still say the pros outweigh the cons.

LSU was a fluke away from being another EPIC gaffe....but you rarely hear about it...why...cause we WON !

Winning will take care a lot of this message board madness. And when I say "winning" I mean success.....and when I say "success"....I mean 7+ wins on the norm.....and a good bowl.
 


I don't love kf. 1. I think he is humble and I like that about him. I think he has good character and I also like that. In general, I like most everything i see if him from the human being standpoint. I like the fact that he isn't a big fat headed screaming maniac like most coaches. Unlike others I like how he prepares his teams to not be too high or too low. 2. Coaching wise he has given is the best decade I have seen in my lifetime of watching the hawks. He has given me more games than I can recall where I am proud to say I am a hawk. I like the product I saw every season up until the last two years. I knew what to expect, I knew what we had to do to win and I I we our players and coaches knew and we usually did it.

Now, with that said, I really think the Davis hire was bad. Yes I am giving it another year but I think it is a bad fit for us and will send kf packing in one to two years and be a five year digression for us. But, log as a person and coach minus the last two years is about ad much as I can ask for as a rational hawk fan
 






OK, why do you love KF? <P> Do you think KOK loved to coach under KF with KOK's offensive background? What he was forced to call? All the scapegoating he was subjected to at Iowa?<P> Give one example of a coach that spoke ill will about another coach (that wasn't going to jail). Heck, I can't remember any coach who spoke ill will about the Zooker, a former Illinois football coach. <P> DP5555, I fear some of your logical arguments are straw men arguments.


You're proving my point. Your inability to comprehend what I am saying is incredible. You highlighted certain parts of my post, and then ignored the part where I specifically said Kirk deserves criticism right now. HE DESERVES CRITICISM RIGHT NOW! I never once in any of these posts said that I love KF. I'm a Hawkeye fan. I hate where the program is at right now, and if it doesn't change direction soon I'm going to be one who is ready for a change.

I simply said it's irrational to blame everything negative on him, and also claim that he has had nothing to do with the success Iowa has had since he took over the head coaching duties. That's ridiculous and it is blatantly irrational. He's been the top dawg in the program since he took over. If you're going to criticize the top dawg that's perfectly fair. It comes with the territory, but you also have to be willing to let him share in the credit when there is success.

I already mentioned earlier in this thread that it is a good point stating that coaches rarely have anything bad to say about eachother. That's a fair point. However, I would suggest the length of time Kirk was able to hold onto some very good assistants says enough. There were several years where KOK was a lightning rod for Hawkeye fans, and Kirk made it very clear that Ken had received other opportunities to leave. He didn't do so for a reason. Kirk also said after the Phil Parker hire that he had multiple opportunities to leave to other BCS level programs before Norm decided to call it quits, and he didn't do so.

If you're going to hang your hat on the "straw man argument" then first you might want to start by comprehending everything that's been said before doing so. Just because someone is sticking up for Ferentz's record at Iowa doesn't mean they are in love with the guy as the head coach. I appreciate what he has done for the program, and I hope he has what it takes to return it to levels Hawkeye fans have grown accustomed to under his watch. Whether or not he does remains to be seen, but I will always stand by the fact the man deserves credit for what he has accomplished at Iowa. I will continue to stick up for him when I feel like people are being irrational.
 
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Recruiting went down hill? or attrition caught up? Outside of a very few outliers....recruiting is what it is what it is at Iowa....and even when it wasn't....it still was. While coaching changes typically do negatively effect recruiting, I don't think them leaving fully explains why we are where we are. Was there really that large of a difference in recruiting or talent (honest question, I would need to see the recruting rankings from the past 20 years or so)....my guess is no.

I don't think anyone can argue that there is about 8-10 gaffes that have been extremely stark and unfavoring for KF and his staff over the last decade or so. While i'm not a fan of seeminly not being quick with decision and not being prepared for the unexpected, I still say the pros outweigh the cons.

LSU was a fluke away from being another EPIC gaffe....but you rarely hear about it...why...cause we WON !

Winning will take care a lot of this message board madness. And when I say "winning" I mean success.....and when I say "success"....I mean 7+ wins on the norm.....and a good bowl.

In that regard, we are pretty similar. I "expect" (regular season) 7-5 or better. Bowl wins, while "expected", should really be more in the class of "desired".

And of course, a "good" bowl can, unfortunately, change from year to year based on too many factors (other B1G teams' non-conference record, our non-conference record, how we stack up against our own division, the criteria used for bowl "slotting").

Basically, 6-6 or worse is "disappointing", bowl win or not. Pre-12-game schedule, I always figured we BETTER be 6-5 regular season. I started this "mythical line" in 1982. Coming off first Rose Bowl berth since 1958 season, NObody picked us above 7th in Big 10 which was prior to Big Ten, with the the cool design to incorporate the entry of PSU). But, somehow, we went 7-4 and won the Peach Bowl.

After that, I think most pretty much knew we could get a bowl bid most years. Since JHFs 1981 season, the only seasons we have missed a bowl:

1989 (5-6)
1992 (5-7)
1994 (5-5-1)
1998 (3-8)
1999 (1-10)
2000 (3-9)
2007 (6-6)
2012 (4-8)

Both JHF and KF missed bowls their first two seasons (JHF 1979 & 1980, KF 1999 and 2000).

One could argue that the 1988 (6-3-3), 1993 (6-5) and 2006 teams didn't "belong" in bowl games, while some might argue 2007 (6-6) "could" have gotten a bid.

So, from a collective 33 seasons (JHF 20, KF 13) we have missed bowls in 10 of those seasons. That's 30.3 %/69.7% bowl bid "success rate". From 1960 to 1980, not sure ANY of those teams could have gotten a bid under the "relaxed" we started seeing in late 1970s. For 19 seasons, in other words, we NEVER attained that "bowl success rate".

Am I "happy" with last season? Hardly. Am I ready to dump the coach? No. If this season sees the same (or worse) results, I think the hot seat is in play, contract terms or not. I just think we won't see the same or worse in 2014 and beyond.

Edit: sorry, was responding to one of Freed's posts...
 


While its true coaches seldom are critical of other coaches. Its also true KF is very well regarded in the industry. Very Well
You're proving my point. Your inability to comprehend what I am saying is incredible. You highlighted certain parts of my post, and then ignored the part where I specifically said Kirk deserves criticism right now. HE DESERVES CRITICISM RIGHT NOW! I never once in any of these posts said that I love KF. I'm a Hawkeye fan. I hate where the program is at right now, and if it doesn't change direction soon I'm going to be one who is ready for a change.

I simply said it's irrational to blame everything negative on him, and also claim that he has had nothing to do with the success Iowa has had since he took over the head coaching duties. That's ridiculous and it is blatantly irrational. He's been the top dawg in the program since he took over. If you're going to criticize the top dawg that's perfectly fair. It comes with the territory, but you also have to be willing to let him share in the credit when there is success.

I already mentioned earlier in this thread that it is a good point stating that coaches rarely have anything bad to say about eachother. That's a fair point. However, I would suggest the length of time Kirk was able to hold onto some very good assistants says enough. There were several years where KOK was a lightning rod for Hawkeye fans, and Kirk made it very clear that Ken had received other opportunities to leave. He didn't do so for a reason. Kirk also said after the Phil Parker hire that he had multiple opportunities to leave to other BCS level programs before Norm decided to call it quits, and he didn't do so.

If you're going to hang your hat on the "straw man argument" then first you might want to start by comprehending everything that's been said before doing so. Just because someone is sticking up for Ferentz's record at Iowa doesn't mean they are in love with the guy as the head coach. I appreciate what he has done for the program, and I hope he has what it takes to return it to levels Hawkeye fans have grown accustomed to under his watch. Whether or not he does remains to be seen, but I will always stand by the fact the man deserves credit for what he has accomplished at Iowa. I will continue to stick up for him when I feel like people are being irrational.
 


While its true coaches seldom are critical of other coaches. Its also true KF is very well regarded in the industry. Very Well
So, are you saying we should all buck up about the current tend of losing at Iowa because KF is well regarded? Lee Corso was well regarded in the college football industry.
 


When an Adam Robinson, Jeff Tarpinian, Jewel Hampton, Adam Gettis, etc, etc go down at Alabama, they have someone close to just as good playing behind them.

There is little to no margin for error at Iowa.
Jon, I was referring to the fallacy, pointed out by many Iowa fans, that Iowa could've had a better record in the 2009 season if the offense was better, by pointing to Alabama's, (who won the national championship against Texas in the 2009 season) very similar (and mundane) offensive stats. By the same token, Iowa could've had a better record in the 2009 season if the defense was better.
 
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Iowa can't get some 'dynamite recruits' to stay because KF's system isn't sexy. If you lament the lack of 'dynamite recruits' at Iowa, maybe you should consider a different system for Iowa...
 
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Iowa can't get some 'dynamite recruits' to stay because KF's system isn't sexy. If you lament the lack of 'dynamite recruits' at Iowa, maybe you should consider a different system for Iowa...

Well, isn't this year 2 of that different system? Kf did change the system.

FreedComanche
 




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